schmidt rubin

[loveruger]

What does anybody know about these rifles,anything would be helpful.

Picked the Schmidt Rubin today. Near as I can tell it is a 1889 GP90 with the large cap mg. Rifling looks good bore is nice and shiny. 250 otf. All numbers match except the bolt.

[ukrifleman]

127338
What does anybody know about these rifles,anything would be helpful.

They are just about the nearest thing to a match grade rifle ever put into the hands of troops.

Think Swiss watches and you come somewhere near to the build quality.

With GP11 Swiss military ammunition, they are capable of serious 1000 yard accuracy.

BTW< you might as well start out by knowing that the Swiss K31 (as pictured) is NOT a Schmidt Rubin, it was designed by Col Furrer, long after Messrs Schmidt and Rubin had passed away.
ukrifleman.

[Charley]

Great rifles. Have only two, a G-11 and a K-31, both a great shooters, and easy to load for.

[N4AUD]

I've killed several deer with mine. It's a tack driver. I bought two but gave one to my son. Both had the tags under the buttplate of the soldiers they were issued to, but I understand a lot of them don't have the tags. I've never seen one that the stock wasn't a little (or a lot) chewed up near the butt although I've seen some for sale online that weren't. In reloading for them you have to work at getting the OAL correct, and if you seat most bullets to give an OAL the same as the Swiss issue ammo you'll find your bullet jammed into the rifling ahead of the chamber. I have the St. Marie Graphics scope mount on mine and it works great.

[Kraschenbirn]

I've got 2 K-31s and a G-96/11 and all shoot better than I can hold with issue sights. Try running a search for K-31 or 7.5x55 and you'll find quite a number of threads discussing the (re)loading and mechanics of these rifles. You might also try the Swiss Rifles Forum ( http://swissrifles.com/ ).

Bill

[dilly]

The commonly available military surplus brass is Berdan primed. You can buy boxer primed brass, or convert the Berdan brass to boxer primed brass. The conversion is a bit of work but it's only once per piece of brass.

[frkelly74]

I have two of the 96/11 schmidt rubin rifles for sale in the swappin and selling section.

[pworley1]

They are not the most beautiful milsurp (my opinion) but they are sure shooters.

[Janoosh]

K 31 and G 96/11 are the two most accurate milsurp rifles I have. They are cast friendly also, once you find the right mold.

[NuJudge]

Swiss Rifles Forum: http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/directory#.VLYJWlpGoUU
Accurizing directions that have worked well for me: http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/accurizing.html
Cheapest Boxer brass I have found: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/12649
Comparison of different straight pull models: http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/

Schmidt-Rubin is the correct way to refer to the 1911 Long Rifle & Carbine, as well as their predecessors, but not the K31.

The Swiss Berdan primed brass is reload able, and the primers are around, but it is one more step during the reloading process, and it takes a little bit of tooling.

The open sights on the Swiss rifles creates special challenges beyond about age 40. Seeing the front sight is chief amongst them. Blackening the front sights with a carbide lamp helps, as does a supplementary aperture on your glasses such as Lyman offers, or a really good Optometrist.

[N4AUD]

I should have specified the rifles I bought are K31's.

[loveruger]

Bump for a edit.

[flyingmonkey35]

Man I had mine for years.

Picked it up for 80 bucks form big 5.

I never found brass for it.

Although I never tried real hard and that was before I got into reloading.

Traded it for a set of black powder revolvers.

[frkelly74]

I know it is also a long shot, but brass can be formed from 284 Winchester brass. I fell into a quantity of that brass from an estate way back. And some of it had already been formed to the Swiss round.

[oscarflytyer]

In Germany, these were usually the 300 M open sight match winners - nearly every time. Free floated barrel. GREAT shooters. Cool action. Wish I had been able to get mine back... With a scope, can't imagine. And all the Swiss ammo we were shooting was pretty much match ammo too. Same with the Norma 6.5x55 Match ammo I shot in my Swede - it shot great and yet to match it!

[oscarflytyer]

I know it is also a long shot, but brass can be formed from 284 Winchester brass. I fell into a quantity of that brass from an estate way back. And some of it had already been formed to the Swiss round.

AARRGGHHHHH!!!!!! Shameful!!!! Those of us with 284 Wins are cringing and cussing at the same time!!!

[frkelly74]

I'm Sorry!

[DougStump]

Loveruger,

Be real careful with your 1889, don’t try to shoot any GP11 (spitzer bullet) ammo! The G30 load used a slightly smaller round nose bullet (I’m at work so I don’t have my books handy, but I think it was .300 dia) and are lower pressure. The 1889 uses a three groove barrel so it’s hard to measure correctly. I used to have an ’89 and only fed it low velocity cast lead sized (don’t remember what I sized them down to). Accurate sucker!

[Jeff Michel]

Brass is readily available through GRAF and Son.

[frkelly74]

That's the easy way now. 15 years ago it was exotic brass.

[Bob S]

OP says he has a model 1889. GP-11 should not be fired in the 1889; cases for reloading should be shortened to 2.1" to avoid pinching the bullet in the shorter 1889 chamber. Throats are VERY generous; the original cartridge used a lead paper patched bullet with an iron nose cap; the diameter over the paper patching was close to .320. The groove diameter past the throat, however, was about .310. It can be a challenge to get these to shoot up to the accuracy standards of the later Swiss rifles.

Respectfully,
Bob S.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

All the Swiss rifles are extremely well made and at least have a potential for excellent accuracy. But if you really have an 1889, ammunition made for the 1911 and later rifles should not be used in it. I don't think the danger is great, and I believe the Swiss army did authorize its use in the 1889 for emergencies. But in emergencies people do take risks, even if it might only be a progressively damaged rifle, and the user getting a nasty fright.

The 1889 has a longer action than the 1911 (which itself is long), and you will see them illustrated on www.swissrifles.com (http://www.swissrifles.com) . The bolt actuating and locking sleeve in both has helical slots. But in the 1889 these grooves come between the locking lugs and the shoulder of the bolt, and so are compressed by breech pressure. In the 1911 action the lugs are adjacent to that shoulder, and the helical grooves aren't stressed by breech pressure.

The case neck and throat of the 1889 chamber are very wide. So a bullet of .308 or so (fine for the rifling) is liable to tip. A bullet expanding the neck to a close fit in the chamber will be swaged down quite drastically in the throat. A jacketed one would produce excessive pressure. Patched lead shouldn't do that, but is liable to take on fins at the rear of the lands, even through the paper. The Swiss solution was to have a heel bullet, although by less than the thick ness of the case neck.

A possible solution, which I haven't adequately tested, would be to make a true 8mm. (.315in.) cast bullet for patching, but under the patch have a disc cut from 8mm. aluminium rod. That should be less inclined to form fins, and since aluminium doesn't solder easily, should drop away with the paper patch.

[loveruger]

I want to thank everybody for their response. I don't cast so where do I get the bullets and brass and where to start . I cleaned it and the bore and rifling look really good .

[NuJudge]

The cheapest source of brass is Graf & Sons:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/12649

Before loading anything, read this article:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

My favorite cast bullet powder, SR4759, was just discontinued. Next in line for me would be 2400. There is a relatively new powder on the market, Trail Boss, which you would do well to look at, as it makes double powder charges very unlikely. A double powder charge will ruin your day (and your rifle).

There are a wide variety of sources of cast bullets. Amongst them is to ask on the sub forum here for bullets of a style you want to test. There are also commercial casters. Someone will be glad to send you some, if you refund the postage. With no experience with the 1889 chamber, and based only on what I have read here and at the SwissRifles website, I would probably start first with a Lovern design, with gas check, about .311" diameter.