Powder for 9mm, pistol vs carbine

[crabo]

What powder would you choose for shooting cast in 9mm pistol and 16" 9mm carbine. Would you use the same powder or a different powder for each application?

Thanks,

Crabo

[Duckdog]

I've had good luck with Unique in the 5 - 5.5 gr range... if my memory is right. i could look it up for you if you want. Downright dirty powder, but it will shoot in almost anything with good results.

[runfiverun]

i load t- group in my 9mm and shoot it in 3 pistols and 1 carbine

[38 Super Auto]

I have always like AA#5 in 9mm. You might try WSF. I use WSF in 40 s/w and 38 super.

Both powders are clean burning in my loads.

[hedgehorn]

I like Hodgdon Universal same load but cleaner

[mike in co]

yes ...this is where a tool like "quickload" is great.
while i use aa5 in most of my nines i have used other powders depending on the bullet/boolit in use.
you can tune for a velocity or accuracy..or a compromise on both so that s same load works acceptable in both handgun and carbine.

3n37 works too
mike in co

[Lloyd Smale]

im a fan of aa2 in the 9mm but i think id give power pistol a try in a carbine first.

[nicholst55]

I recently obtained a pound of (discontinued) Winchester Action Pistol. It works great in 9mm, either pistol or my AR-15 carbine. Remember that your typical 9mm carbine is blowback operated, so it's not going to tolerate dramatically heavier loads than your typical pistol. It may take a bit more powder to reliably operate the bolt; then again it may not. I use the same loads in both, and I don't want to beat my Belgian High Power to death.

[MTWeatherman]

Don't know if your question is based on accuracy or performance. However, I'm guessing that you're looking for increased performance by using a slower powder to take advantage of that 16" barrel. In a nutshell...don't!

Take Nichols statement to heart. In a blowback design, you don't want to increase loads much beyond what factory 9mm loads will deliver...at least not if you want much longevity out of your 9mm carbine.

Been there...done that. FYI BlueDot powder is very effective in maximizing performance in a 9mm carbine. You can drive the 120 Lee bullet to 1600 fps within safe pressure limits and you can get high performance, decent accuracy and zero leading with the Saeco GC bullet designed for the 9. I did it while experimenting with a High-Point. Carbine is designed to handle +P+ but is full blowback. Striker spring went at less than 1000 rounds...steel rail in the slide cracked at about 1500.

Lesson learned. Yes you can significantly boost performance if you feel its absolutely necessary but expect to be repairing or purchasing a new firearm if its used more than minimally. No benefit to accuracy noted by me with the slower powders though may be some help in avoiding leading. Pistol powders work just fine and will give about an extra 200 fps in muzzle velocity in the carbine.

I chronographed some 115 gr. factory loads (standard not +P) and calculated the momentum, since in a blowback, that's what's transferred to the slide. Then calculated the upper muzzle velocity I should have with the Lee bullet. My lighter load of 5.3 gr. of Unique was over that. Note that these slower powders and their listed loads are totally usable in a handgun. Its when they're transferred to the rifle that you get more bullet velocity and associated slide velocity than the firearm was designed for...which is factory rounds with the faster pistol powders. My advice...since all loading data I've seen is for pistols, if you don't have a chronograph, stick to the faster pistol powders to avoid problems...and if you're using jacketed data...back off a bit from max since the lead bullet will deliver that max performance at a bit lighter load.

I've now settled on 3.7 gr. of Red Dot for the simple reason I have a lifetime supply of it with a nearly full keg...and it delivers excellent accuracy and zero leading. I honed the Lee TC mould out to .358 for best performance. That load delivers nearly 1200 fps from the carbine with the now 124 gr. bullet.

The Hi-Point has taken several thousand rounds without a hitch since.

[crabo]

Thanks for the info, particularly as it applies to hot rodding the carbine. I have an AR and I don't want to beat it to death.

Thanks,

Crabo

[MTWeatherman]

Crabo and others with pistol cartridge carbines:

Warning in advance...another long post...however, hopefuly, you will find the information useful!

That experiment with the 9mm carbine was 3 - 4 years ago. After my post I checked my notes...should have done so before responding. Since you plan to use cast in that AR15 I’d be remiss if I didn’t relay that information to you.

You can Google the results of others on 9mm carbine velocities.. Generally, carbine velocities with jacketed were near 1300 fps with standard 115 gr loads...and near 1200 with 124grs. which is exactly what you’d expect to hold bullet momentum constant. Velocities increase 75 to 100 fps with +P. That represents about a 150 fps increase in the carbine over a pistol with those jacketed bullets. I chronographed some “White Box” Winchester and got 1106 fps from a 4 inch pistol and 1263 from the carbine. A bit lower than the overall average but in line with other results. Pretty safe assumption that with a 124 gr. bullet the carbine manufactures were assuming working velocities around 1200 fps...maxing out at about 1300 fps when they designed the mass of the slide (bolt), recoil spring, etc.

However, actual chronograph testing with cast was a real eye opener. With equal loads, as expected, cast bullets gained some velocity over jacketed in the pistol...but the gain out of the carbine was totally out of proportion to what was expected. That slippery lead effect is multiplied. I tested with a number of powders...true in every case but I’ll use the example of what I consider a fast, medium, and slow burner in the 9mm.

Bullseye...4.3 gr. Lee TC 120 gr (actually wt 124)...interpolated velocity from Lyman #3 abt 1100, chrono 4" pistol..1115, chrono 16.5 “ carbine...1372.
Thats a 257 fps gain and well above +P velocity with jacketed.

Unique...5.3 gr. Lee TC again...listed velocity for Lyman 121 gr...1135 fps, chrono from 4" pistol 1133, chrono 16.5" carbine...1417...now a 284 fps gain

Blue Dot...8.2 gr. Lee 124 TC again...fm Alliant reloading manual 1170 fps with 125 gr jacketed, didn’t use in pistol to chronograph, from carbine 1585 fps...over 400 fps gain over the jacketed pistol load...way, way over what manufactures likely were designing for.

Cracked rail on my carbine hardly a surprise.

Note: Lyman lists their starting Red Dot load for their 121 gr. 9mm as 3.8 grs and 1020 fps. I’m using 3.7 to get 1180 fps out of a 124 gr...pretty close to what standard commercial jacketed would deliver in the carbine. 4.1 grains would be pushing it up toward +P at 1272. Lyman lists 4.5 Red Dot as max.

For those who are using cast ammo in their pistol carbines, a word of caution is in order. You may think you’re not hammering the carbine using cast bullets with listed pistol loads but don’t count on it. If you don’t have a chrongraph stay closer to the starting levels than the max. Obviously, results with others may vary, but I’d be surprised to see if the same trend wasn’t there.