Just got a gas check tool

[Duckdog]

I just got a .311 gas check making tool off of E-Bay for use with aluminum cans, sheet copper, etc. I must say the guy who is making them has done a good job with them. I am using one aluminum can disc and one copper embossing disc to make one good check.

I'm sure that straight aluminum would be OK, but, the embossing copper will make a wole lot of checks for $7.

The guy is offering a quite a few different calibers and says he may add more. For those interested, search item # 230223735376 and it will get you to a .357 gas check tool. From there you can find out if he has any right now. I see this one went for about $28.00. I paid $31 for the .311.

Kind of neat to mess with. I have lost of 30 cal checks, but I kind of like to be self sufficient when it comes too my casting.

[beagle]

Glad you reported on that. I've been watching those. Looks like an acquisition I need to make.

Thanks./beagle

[Vly]

Duckdog - This is very interesting. I read the Ebay auction and need clarification on what you actually purchase. He talks about "hollow hole punches, forming rams or mandrels, anvil dies ". What do you actually get?

Please post a report on how well these checks fit to your bullets, and most importantly, how they shoot.

Thanks

[Bullshop]

I would like to see a comparison in performance with the same boolit and #1 with conventional checks, #2 homecheck, and #3 w/o check.
Not neccessarily with the same load but also the best of each.
For some reason I just cant get past the feeling that those thin checks just wont offer the hold on the grooves that the thicker copper checks offer.
I have an idea the performance of # 2 and #3 will be nearly the same while the conventional check will be in a class by itself. Just an idea though.
How bout it?
BIC/BS

[Duckdog]

What you're getting, at least with the 30 cal., is a hollow punch, a madrel, and a die. Pretty simple, cut the disk on a piece of soft lead, put the disk in the mandrel, and use the die to form the check. Like I said, I used two thin sheets to make a disk that bit when I ran a bullet through a Lee sizer. If one didn't have a Lee sizer, I would guess a drop of superglue or even bullet lube would work.

I haven't shot one yet because we have a ton of snow, but I'll report when I do. I have a feeling they will work out OK, at least from what I can see.

[Kraschenbirn]

Got one these a couple of weeks ago for 8mm. Seems to work pretty well and, so far, I've blanked and formed a few aluminum hundred checks while planted in front of the idiot box watching college basketball. Haven't actually seated any onto bullets yet...my Lee329-205-1R mould just showed up this afternoon...but plan to cast and size a run over the weekend. After that, it'll be a matter of waiting for decent enough weather to empty some brass for reloading. (A while back, I bought a .50 cal ammo can full of assorted 8x57 ammo on an estate auction...about 1/3 berdan-primed milsurp and 2/3 boxer-primed commercial...but just got my Mauser "project gun" into shootable condition a couple weeks ago.)

Bill

[VTDW]

I cannot find that Item # in ebay and cannot find a gas check tool either. Have a link I can use?

Thanks,

Dave

[Duckdog]

When you open E-Bay's site, search all catagories and type in 230223078254 and it will come up. I would then check his other items and see if he has any right now. From what I can see, he must make them and sell them quickly. The one I bought was on a multiple bid, as he had 5 for sale at once. I just bid a max of $45 and got it for $32, as the lowest bid is what everyone pays. It looks like he offers different calibers and may customize the die and mandrel. He's the link, but I ws able to open it throught the search screen.

http://cgi.ebay.com:80/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230223078254&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123

[Nueces]

Codarnall is the seller and is a member on this site, having posted info about these systems. You can search for his posts and PM him for info. Please post what you find out.

Mark

[Kraschenbirn]

"Codarnall is the seller and is a member on this site, having posted info about these systems. You can search for his posts and PM him for info. Please post what you find out."

You can also reach Charlie at his regular e-mail codarnall@yahoo.com. He sent a detailed instruction sheet along with the tool and, when I had a couple of question about use/maintenance, he got back to me with good information within a day or two. He mentioned in recent correspondence that, provided with a sample boolit, he's made tools for up to .375 H&H.

Bill

[VTDW]

THANKS!! I just dropped him an e-mail and the link worked for me also.

Dave

[Junior1942]

I'm bidding on one now. I tried to get him to outright sell me one, and he wouldn't do it.

[mbk]

For some reason I just cant get past the feeling that those thin checks just wont offer the hold on the grooves that the thicker copper checks offer.
BIC/BS


This may have been discussed before, but you can buy copper shim stock (even at the current high copper price) relatively inexpensive. We use a lot of copper shims at work and buy copper shim stock by the roll from McMaster Carr among other places. You can get the shim stock in about whatever thickness you want. I measured several different caliber gas checks that I have here and most were around .007" thick on the sides. I know you can get it for sure in .001" increments to .025" very easily.
I have lurked here quite a while but not posted much, sorry if I am throwing out worthless info.

Mike

[threett1]

Not worthless info at all. Was wondering what you answered. Thanks. Mark T

[Just Duke]

Wouldn't aluminum riding down the bore cause premature wearing?
Is a beer can and a soda pop can the same thickness?
If I was to use copper where would I get it the right thickness to make 500, 460 and 45-70 Gas check's?
TIA

[Duckdog]

From what I've been reading, it should not. As I mentioned , I am putting a layer of emossing copper over one disk of soda can and it seems to be good. I have not shot them yet, so I can not give much of a report.

With the cost of gas checks, I can see this wil pay for itself pretty quick. I will be experimenting with all aluminum gas checks to see if they harm a barrel's rifling.

[Kraschenbirn]

Woudn't aluminum riding down the bore cause premature wearing?
Is a beer can and a soda pop can the same thickness?
If I was to use copper where would I get it the right thickness to make 500, 460 and 45-70 Gas check's?
TIA

I just finished running a couple of hundred Lee 329-205-1Rs with homemade aluminum gas checks through my Lyman 450 and they look pretty good to me. Checks fit a bit loose on the boolit shank but once crimped and lubed them seem fairly snugly set. Like Duckdog, I haven't shot any yet but will post results after I've launched a few downrange.

As for Duke's questions:

1) The nearly pure aluminum used in pop/beer cans is only marginally harder than annealed copper (23-25 BHN vs 18-20 BHN, according to my CS&W handbook) and considerably softer than annealed brass so there shouldn't be any appreciable increase in barrel wear.

2) From what I've measured so far, the thickness of material used in beer/pop cans is the same: .004"-.005".

3) See mbk's earlier post. I haven't got a current McMaster-Carr catalog but have purchased from them in the past. W.W. Grainger might also be a possible source for copper gasket material.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Has anybody shot any of them yet for a test report?
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Kraschenbirn]

Has anybody shot any of them yet for a test report?
1Shirt!:coffee:

Nope, not here, anyway. Sun is shining but, with the 20-25 mph winds, chill factor is hovering right around zero. Annual lock change on our range is due on Saturday but the Club Safety Officer says the drive is plowed shut and someone's going to have to get through a couple feet of frozen slush just to reach the gate.

I've got twenty rounds of 8x57 (Lee 329-205-1Rs sized .325) w/aluminum checks packed in my range bag and plan to take the Jeep and head over that way the first day the temp gets over 40 deg. without gale-force winds.

Bill

[bigborefan]

I too, would be interested in hearing if these GCs work as well as factory Lyman or Hornady. My only concern is will they stay on in flight or will some fall off, killing accuracy. It is for that reason that I only use Hornady GCs.

[PatMarlin]

Why in the world is he dinking around with ebay, when he could be doing group buys here for probably $50-$60 a pop easily?

We're most likely to picky and high maintenance.. :mrgreen:

[jhrosier]

I tried an email and never got any response.
Maybe he has too much business?

Jack

[PatMarlin]

Well I can tell you right now he's loosing his rear end at $35 in the long run, and will not be able to stay in the game for long.

[Jakey]

I just cant see how they are going to work. His 8mm set makes checks that are 323 OD .314 ID X .090. Now when the OD is about the same as what they will be sized to and the Id is way bigger than the gas check diameter on the cast bullet, what will hold them on? They sure are not going to be "crimped on, the lube might hold them in place, but just can't seem to believe they will stay together once bullet hit rifling. I asked him this in an email and he said if I had doubts I should not bid on it, with no further explanation.

[VTDW]

Jakey,

I just recently had an experience with the party in question. Not much of a business person IMHO. The interpersonal skills of a frog. I'll just continue to purchase my gas checks but did want to try making them myself. Oh well.

Dave

[Newtire]

I also had a bad business experience with the one who was selling them. I just happened to get "the one that didn't work" I guess and when I tried to be civil about it he got on a real rant about how I whould go out of my way to go by the post offic etc to mail him the thing right back since I had time to get on the internet. Like a regular "home security" guy or something. Mine did not work at all.

[codarnall]

I just cant see how they are going to work. His 8mm set makes checks that are 323 OD .314 ID X .090. Now when the OD is about the same as what they will be sized to and the Id is way bigger than the gas check diameter on the cast bullet, what will hold them on? They sure are not going to be "crimped on, the lube might hold them in place, but just can't seem to believe they will stay together once bullet hit rifling. I asked him this in an email and he said if I had doubts I should not bid on it, with no further explanation.

Well now when we tell stories we should try to the get the story straight. You're question was posted less than 30 minutes before the end of a five day auction. Using eBays system clock as a reference. Traveling at the speed of of light I still can't get it to run backwards. I e-mailed you within a hour AFTER closing and indicated you could rescind your winning bid, (you had won) with no hard feelings . Buyer remorse? Please, please, do!

[codarnall]

Jakey,

I just recently had an experience with the party in question. Not much of a business person IMHO. The interpersonal skills of a frog. I'll just continue to purchase my gas checks but did want to try making them myself. Oh well.

Dave
Again this is the frog speaking. I spent hours dealing with you off-line, bickering over 50 cents, I thought you might be one of my three Dave Williams' I know. All to save a dollar.

Your answer "Houston we have a problem", after 3 days, Sir the problem was yours. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. You should know as a retired school administrator.

[crabo]

So, do these work? Has anyone done any real testing at the range yet? I have been staying away from gc designed molds because of the price of gas checks.

Thanks,

Crabo

[codarnall]

I also had a bad business experience with the one who was selling them. I just happened to get "the one that didn't work" I guess and when I tried to be civil about it he got on a real rant about how I whould go out of my way to go by the post offic etc to mail him the thing right back since I had time to get on the internet. Like a regular "home security" guy or something. Mine did not work at all.


The system clock screwed you up too, bud tell the whole story or try too, subsequent buyer loved it. The cutter wasn't has sharp as it could be but worked. I sharpened in 3 minutes and sold it working fine.

[Duckdog]

I have had zero problems with the product, as well my dealings with Codarnall. I have made some checks with one disk, and some with two. The two sick checks kind of crimp on when they are run through the sizer. I have found that with a dot of superglue, the check must be pryed off with a knife, or screwdriver once the glue sets up. After glueing, I lube the bullet and then, after the lube dries, I run the bullet thought the appropriate Lee sizer.

I have still not shot any of them, but I am confident that they will work just fine. I was not really expecting a couple of hundred dollar tool for $35, even though this appears to be a quality tool. I did order a couple of sets of the cutters off of Amazon.com for about $5 a set, just in case I screw up the cutter.

I would not hesitate to buy another one in the caliber I have, or another caliber that I may need.

[codarnall]

Well now when we tell stories we should try to the get the story straight. You're question was posted less than 30 minutes before the end of a five day auction. Using eBays system clock as a reference. Traveling at the speed of of light I still can't get it to run backwards. I e-mailed you within a hour AFTER closing and indicated you could rescind your winning bid, (you had won) with no hard feelings . Buyer remorse? Please, please, do!


The exact email to you.

Two things: Sounds like you have doubts in a question I just got from you. First, I recommend a better punch at 7/16 than the Chinese one. One reported having to sharpen it at some point. www.use-enco.com item 240-1936 for $8.87 plus S&H. Or other General 7/16 inch hollow hole punch.
Secondly, if you'd like to cancel your bid please feel free to do so. No problem---Charlie

- codarnall

Item and user details
Item Title: Gas Check Making Tool .323 8mm Aluminum Standalone
Item Number: 230226834847
Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230226834847
End Date: Mar-02-08 11:39:31 PST
From User:
codarnall (138)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since Feb-26-06 in United States
Location : CA, United States
Activity with codarnall (last 90 days):I have bid on 0 items from codarnall
This message was sent while the listing was closed.codarnall is a seller.

[Jakey]

Frog, since I asked you a technical question about your product and you seem to not be able/willing to answer it, I must assume that they in fact do NOT work. Instead of haveing all the know-how of the "system clock",whatever that is, maybe you should "bone" up on info on YOUR product. And also , DONE SO.

superglue is not a solution, as soon as the check gets hot (.000001 second after discharge) the glue will melt rendering it non-glue.

[VTDW]

codarnall,

I do not get into squables on forums as I found a long time ago I cannot get a pig to sing. It cannot be done and just annoys the pig. It seems everyone else is here is out of step sir. My apologies for attempting to give the good folks a heads-up.

Enjoy yourself,

Dave

[PatMarlin]

Codarnall,

I'm a business man. Granted- not sucessful all of the time, but it's paid my way all of my life so far.

You seem to be on to something here and have the potential for a great product. Why not work with the folks here to perfect it, then sell it to us in a group buy format?

Trust me- very few individuals have time to make freecheck tools, or even have the capability.

If a quality punch tool is the problem in the long run, that's not a problem at all as we all know the chinese ones are cheap and will not hold an edge without frequent resharpening. A guy can buy a better disk punch later if he chooses to. The key here is your tool.

Start with one caliber, say 30 cal for instance. Perfect it. Varify that it works here with yourself and a few test members.

If memory serves me correctly, the Hanned line freecheck tool was over $100. I know Veral Smith thought of offering them at one time. Don't know if he ever went through with it, but they sure won't be cheap.

WHen you have the 30 cal gascheck maker perfected, offer it here for sale on a group buy format for the same price as a LEE mold $60 shipped, IF and only IF you can make a great working tool, and a decent profit at that price and cover all of your material costs etc.

Step back and watch what happens. You will never ever want to deal on eBay again. You have a captive FREE market here with no advertising costs. They even can be talked into putting the capital up front as long as you are found to be a stand up guy and back your product. I'll buy one for each caliber as they come, as my funds are available.

Where in the world can you find a manufacturing deal like that? I wish I knew of one.

[PatMarlin]

Codarnall,

I went on eBay and checked your feeback. You are obviously doing something right and treating people fairly.

But MAN YOU ARE GIVING AWAY YOUR PRODUCT... :groner:

Holy cow- some as low as $17 bucks, and many under $20 :confused: :confused: :confused:

..

[Jakey]

My thinking might be wrong, but is not the other half of the equation of using thin gas checks (Alum. can=.005) , the boolit mold? Would not the gas check diameter of the boolit mold have to be bigger to correspond to the bigger I.D. of the Alumin. can gas check so that it would have something to "crimp" onto?

[VTDW]

I have to agree with Pat. I owned and operated businesses over the years and all made money for me. Heck I own one right now even being retired. This forum as well as a select few others are great places to have folks try out your product (you do not have to provide them free either) and give feedback. There is nothing better than word of mouth advertising on these forums we frequent. Also, you would be very surprised at how cheap it is to have a banner ad on forums. No messing with e-mails (at least not too much:kidding:) or E-Bay and such. Many times I have seen people with products they think are great and find out it is not necessarily something we want or really need. Your tool looks to be a winner from my point of view. I cannot see zillions of folks lining up for your product but can see at least hundreds and after the initial success there will be more customers as more get into reloading and casting. You can indeed get more $ for your product especially since you are targeting a specific audience/customer base. E-bay will get you some business but not nearly as much as these forums.

Dave

p.s. Ever thought about having your own forum on a board? If so, e-mail me. It is free.

Jakey, cast boolits are supposed to have a standard size base in order to have gas checks fit them. I have a mold that drops boolits with bases just a tad bit too large and I have to use a flaring tool I came up with to flare the gas checks just a tad. It is simple and I have the time and do not mind doing it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I contacted him too. I wanted to buy one in 44 and 45 and he wont sell them other then on ebay. I dont deal with ebay anymore so i guess im left out in left field. Sure wish hed reconsider selling them to us here. Id about bet wed keep him so busy he wouldnt have to deal with an anti gun bussiness like ebay.

[PatMarlin]

Charlie- please check your PM box if you see this post.

Pat...... :drinks:


...

[Duckdog]

I have to wonder just how important the crimp is on these checks, as the bullet is being pushed down the barrel by the high pressure of the charge. If the gas check were to fall off when it hit the rifling, that would mean that it has already exited the cartidge. At that point, wouldn't the gasses already be pushing it down the barrel?

I am looking at it like an overcard that is used under the bullet/ round ball and over the powder in muzzleloading. I use 1/8" felt, and I have yet to have one not exit the barrel. I also use a felt wad over the powder in a BP revolver and there is agap between teh forcing cone and the cylinder and they also all exit the barrel. I would guess that a certain amount of the gas checked bullets I shoot have the gas check fall off after exiting the barrel already, and I can not notice any accuracy problems.

I'm thinking that if the outside diameter of the AL check is sufficient to create a seal to stop the gas cutting, it will in essence become a plunger that will be forced down the barrel.

Maybe I'm all wet here, but a lot of the fun of this hobby is making things work, and rolling with the flow when they don't. That's why I frequent forums like this to get the info from other peoples successes, or failures, and try to use them. If I wanted everything to work like clockwork, I'd probably be shooting jacketed bullets where the variables are pretty much set. Man! Just thinking about going back to jacketed bullets almost leaves a foul taste in my mouth!

[blysmelter]

I am watching ebay for a.35caliber one:-). But agree, maker would do better bussines outside ebay!

[PatMarlin]

I think it's been proven for quite some time that these homemade checks work, and work well. Far as falling off of the boolit when it leaves the barrel and a negative effect on accuracy, the experts here will chime in their opinions.

Copper checks come off of my boolits too sometimes. The boolits still hit the target.

I think the main problem in the past had been the cost of the gascheck tools. But now with the cost of gaschecks, this has to be looked at seriously again.

I'm not going to give up shooting gascheck designs and as always, any way I can roll my own, make my own what ever... I'm there!!

[Junior1942]

Charlie has added a "But It Now" button to his ebay page. I just bought a 357 gas check maker. The price was $31.95 + $4.65 shipping = $36.60 total. I'll review it when I get a roundtoit.

On ebay search for seller "codarnall."

[blysmelter]

Doesent accept foregin bidders:-(

[Junior1942]

Gave the 357 gascheck maker a trial this morning. I used the punch on beer can material against the end of a stick of firewood. That worked well. However, I had trouble making good checks due to skewing the punched-out material and making checks which were high on one side and low on the other side. But I believe I'll get better with practice. I did the hammering on the front porch floor, and next time I'll do it on my loading bench where I can get my eye closer to the ram/die junction. I have good news--the resulting good checks were a perfect fit on bullets from the group buy C358-180-FP mold.

The checks were an easy push-on fit, and they stayed on. I believe they will stay on all the way to the target, too, and probably all the way through a deer or hog. The check looks like a tiny bottle cap. Think about the little ridges going all the way around a bottle cap. I believe when a beer-can check is ran through a sizer die that all those little ridges will be forced into the wall of the bullet. I think these free gaschecks will be a tighter fit on a bullet than store-bought gaschecks. And from what I saw this morning, one layer of beer can material is plenty.

PS: don't worry about aluminum oxide wearing out your barrel. Put the painted side of the check down, and the metal won't oxidize. Plus the sides, especially, will be coated with lube which will further prevent oxidation.

[sundog]

Junior, 'several' years ago I had (and prolly still have) several Lot #s of Hornady GCs for 6.5. They were the same way. I emailed them, they replied, and I sent some back to them. They said it was because their tool was not sharp. The sent me a replacement box. Same. BUT, they shot fine, at least out to a hunert yards. That's all I know...

I remember posting about this. It might have been on the old Shooters Board.

[Jakey]

Junior, Thanks for the report. The bottlecap ridges pushed into the bullet sounds like it would "crimp" on and stay on, in theory anyways. When I asked the maker of this tool "how they stayed on", why couldn't he just tell me this, instead of getting all non-people skilled on me?

[Junior1942]

Junior, Thanks for the report. The bottlecap ridges pushed into the bullet sounds like it would "crimp" on and stay on, in theory anyways. When I asked the maker of this tool "how they stayed on", why couldn't he just tell me this, instead of getting all non-people skilled on me?Jakey, our man Charlie is obviously a machinist and just as obviously not a talker or a writer.

[afish4570]

Keep up the tests on how this tool works and if it is a solution to the ripoff prices we are stuck with from Hornady....I did't see the Lyman gas checks anywhere and no 6mm gas checks either. Anyone experience in shooting 6mm/243. If remember that the difference between the Hornady and the Lyman gas cks.---Horn. were crimped on and the Lyman fell off on the way down range. Lets learn and maybe a GB will be possible. Any other machinist type guys willing to try another venture. How about using a C or O type reloading press mounted tool?????afish4570:roll::roll:

[Paul Tummers]

I just cant see how they are going to work. the lube might hold them in place, but just can't seem to believe they will stay together once bullet hit rifling.


The bullet is not pulled through the rifling, but pushed by pressure, in this case the pressure which affects on the bottom of the gas check, which still is the case when the gas-check on the bullet goes into the rifling, and I think, the engraving of the rifling is fastening the gas-check solidly onto the bullet .
I have one of Charlies tools, and after making a couple of gas-checks from alluminiuim I went to a friend, who put them on his bullets in stead of his Hornady checks, and he just came back from the range- I myself could not make it to go with him once again, d**ned, and his report was simply;NO DIFFERENCE!!
Kind Regards,
Paul Tummers.

[HamGunner]

Originally Posted by Jakey
Junior, Thanks for the report. The bottlecap ridges pushed into the bullet sounds like it would "crimp" on and stay on, in theory anyways. When I asked the maker of this tool "how they stayed on", why couldn't he just tell me this, instead of getting all non-people skilled on me?
Originally Posted by Jakey
I just cant see how they are going to work. the lube might hold them in place, but just can't seem to believe they will stay together once bullet hit rifling.

Jakey, I have been on this forum only a short time, but I can not understand all your concern. If you operated an evil-bay business you would not have time to ragchew with all the emailers that you get. Think about it. Non-stop emailing.

As for gas checks coming off after firing. Are you kidding? I think the Charlie is still scratching his head over that one.

I say give the guy a break. Buy one if you want, the price is cheap. Or just buy the high dollar checks. They probably stay on all the way down the barrel. :veryconfu

[JeffinNZ]

Doesent accept foregin bidders:-(

Oh yes he does. I am in NZ. Just send him a message and he will oblige. He is only too happy to assist.

I still can't believe Charlie sells these things so cheap. Each is individually made by hand on a lathe so when you factor in the materials and an hourly rate he would be better of working at the local Subway.

Still some charity left in the world ah?

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I have a total of four of Charlie Darnall's gas check tool sets: .30, .357, .44, and a .45 for my 45-70. I use aluminum soda cans for stock material, and I cannot see any difference from my aluminum gas checks and the copper checks I used to use from Lyman and Hornady. I have no idea whether any checks (copper or aluminum) come off on the way to the target, I only make my judgement based on the size of the groups produced. Since the aluminum checks shoot as well as the old copper ones, that's all I care about.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[AzShooter]

I finally found one on E-bay after talking to Codnail. He told me which one would be best for my .30 cal. I had no problems getting him on the phone or having him answer questions on E-bay and was happy with the product when I got it.

I had been using Hornady checks and they work very well.

I made a buch from pop cans and tried them along side the Hornady checks. The aluminum were a loose fit but once I ran them through my sizer they stayed on and not one sliped off.

I can't tell a difference in group sizes so, for what it's worth, it's a plus to be able to sit down and crank out a bunch and use them. I put them in the old Hornady box.

It might take someone a few tries to get them straight but I don't see any problem. Anything new takes some effort to learn how to use it. I've had no problem with the disks centerin themselves. I use the back side of the mandrel to push them flush with the die and then just one small wack with my wooden hammerand they are done.

I use a wheel weight for when I'm cutting the cans so that the punch won't wear out.

[rollingblock]

I've heard good things about aluminium GC's but I wonder about it because aluminium seems to have a natural tendency to grab and gall when it rubs against other metal. Some metals like brass seem to be naturaly self lubricating but aluminium is just the opposite.

[PatMarlin]

We really need someone with a bore scope to varify that.

Personally, I will only be using copper when making my own gas checks.

[zuke]

yes but how thick a copper sheet will you use?

[PatMarlin]

.010 soft.

[Boerrancher]

I have run over 300 rounds of 15 thou thick soft aluminum down the bore of my 30-30 and it looks like a mirror. I shoot a 174gr boolit with 30 grs of IMR 4064 out of my 30-30. I don't even bother to run a patch down it anymore. After doing it several times and not finding anything I quit. Now 300 rounds later it is bright and shiny.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[sundog]

Joe, and others, that's what concerns me - bright and shiny. Aluminium can be quite hard and abrasive. Are you SURE that no damage is being done? I guess we'll know after a few thousand, eh?

[Boerrancher]

Joe, and others, that's what concerns me - bright and shiny. Aluminium can be quite hard and abrasive. Are you SURE that no damage is being done? I guess we'll know after a few thousand, eh?

Aluminum in its self is not abrasive. Aluminum Oxide is very hard and abrasive. The only thing on this planet that is harder than Aluminum Oxide is a Diamond. (Being a Gemologist/Mineralogist helps in this area.) My good friend Tom has been shooting Aluminum gas checks for about the last 20 years. I have not heard him complain at all about premature bore wear. I know he has sent thousands of rounds down range with Aluminum gas checks. Aluminum from Beverage cans is painted on the outside, and lined with a clear coating on the inside. These thin layers protect the can from Oxidation. When you make a gas check and then coat it with a micro thin layer of lube, you have effectively created a second barrier to aid the other two coatings in preventing Oxidation.

Best Wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[PatMarlin]

Does any of our Cast Boolit brethren have a bore scope?

[Larry Gibson]

Does any of our Cast Boolit brethren have a bore scope?

I have access to one, well two actually.

Larry Gibson

[PatMarlin]

That's great Larry but the next question is would you be willing to subject one of your fine shooters as a guinea pig to see if aluminum is doing any damage?... :mrgreen:

[TheGunGeek]

For purely selfish reasons, I'd like to suggest making these in .243 soon. Sure, there may be more people using other calibers, but nobody makes gas checks for .243 any more. While one way to look at it is that there must be a reason why nobody is making them (such as a lack of demand), one must also consider that everyone using cast bullets with their 243 will really want one of these babies so you'd get a higher percentage of an admittedly smaller number of potential customers.

Something to consider anyway...

[Larry Gibson]

I've posted a thread in the GB results forum on a test with my home made 8mm GCs vs Hornadys if any one is interested.

Larry Gibson

[Von Dingo]

Is Charlie still making these die sets? E-bay is not saying anything.

[303Guy]

Aluminum from Beverage cans is painted on the outside, and lined with a clear coating on the inside. These thin layers protect the can from Oxidation. Now that you mention it, .... I used to work in an aluminum can-end coating plant. The aluminum is is cleaned in an acidic or alkaline bath which removes a lot of the abrasive oxides prior to coating. Extruded cans are coated soon after forming so agin the oxide layer should be pretty thin. But most importantly are the results from those using aluminum g/c's. I have started using paper patches and paper is pretty abrasive, so ..... ?

[303Guy]

TheGunGeek, maybe 243 shooters are discovering that paper patching is more successfull![smilie=1:

[Tom W.]

Yes, I bought one last month. I watched a video on You Tube about a man using an arbor press instead of a hammer to make the checks. I bought a 1/2 ton Arbor press from Harbor Freight and believe me, it's worth the price, and my fingers will agree! I don't know how thay shoot yet, and they seem to fit a tad loose in my Lee 300 grain .45 Cal bullet, But I'll see how a slightly thicker material will work.

[inuhbad]

This may have been discussed before, but you can buy copper shim stock (even at the current high copper price) relatively inexpensive. We use a lot of copper shims at work and buy copper shim stock by the roll from McMaster Carr among other places. You can get the shim stock in about whatever thickness you want. I measured several different caliber gas checks that I have here and most were around .007" thick on the sides. I know you can get it for sure in .001" increments to .025" very easily.
I have lurked here quite a while but not posted much, sorry if I am throwing out worthless info.

Mike
Thanks for that info! I'll have to check out McMaster Carr for those copper shim rolls! Sure would be nice to be self-sufficient in everything related to making my own boolits! :-D

[JeffinNZ]

Charlie is out of town right now but back on line soon.

[Rocky Raab]

Out of curiosity as to why this year-old thread got reincarnated, I searched eBay and found a listing for .243 gas checks. For anyone interested, it is item 120434514007 and it is active at this time.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

It has been pointed out a goodly number of times that; the system of punching out and forming gas checks for various caibers out of Aluminum (beverage cans and whatever/or other metals one chooses to use) as machined and sold by Codarnell....definitely works and works well. However he chooses to market his product is his business; our concern is that his system works and is available to us for a reasonable price. He ships quickly, is amenable and user friendly. Yes it is reasonably fair for shooters to be concerned about what is sent down their barrels in terms of wear and tear, but it has also been very well emphasized by knowledgeable forum members that beverage can aluminum is specially cleaned and treated or coated to prevent oxidation. Anyone who has taken science in school at any level or school chemistry has been taught that to form an oxide of just about anything...it is necessary to have oxygen present. With any kind of coating or barrier there is no oxygen getting to the aluminum used in beverage cans. If one is using another source/type of aluminum the amount of oxygen exposure is extremely or infinitely minimal.....that means that you cannot measure it by any practical means and it would have to be multiplied by tens of thousands to approach any significant degree. For those who don't want to or can't believe that concept, it is totally possible to put and keep the gas checks ina zip-lock bag or a small jar or a small pill bottle with a lid and you can be assured that the amount of oxygen that would be involved would not have enough effect on the aluminum gas checks to form an oxide that would probably not register on any kind of electron microscope let alone abrade the steel of a gunbore. Nevertheless people do believe different things and they certainly have the right to do so and and have their opinions as well. In that regard I would then suggest using some other metal such as copper or brass, or simply continue to buy gas checks from Lyman and/or Hornady for whatever scamming/pricefixing prices they collude to charge. At the general price range being charged by Codarnall for his kits, you would always be ahead if you make 1000-1500 checks on your own and thereafter. And just for the record I have been using one of his kits for some time now in 30 caliber to feed a number of M1's, 30-30's, and 30 Carbines. They shoot just as well as any commercial copper gas checks I ever used and although it is a slow system of fabrication, the savings are large and to me worth it. LLS

[vonnieglen]

I've been using the 30 cal Freechex II that I bought from Charlie on Ebay for several months now. I put the video up on youtube using the tool with a Harbor Freight arbor press. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GNCVcD4DmE

I love making them. If I have a need for a little mindless entertainment, I cut up some aluminum flashing with my paper cutter and make a couple hundred gas checks. I have shot hundreds of rounds using them and they work very well. I haven't seen any evidence of damage to the barrels of my rifles. Using these and pan lubing with some of Lar's lube I am having no trouble with leading and the consistency from round to round has been good.

[WILCO]

I watched a video on You Tube about a man using an arbor press instead of a hammer to make the checks.

Here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GNCVcD4DmE

[WILCO]

I posted 7 min. too late!! :roll:

[Tom W.]

But thanks anyway. I was just glad to see the 1/2 ton model, It was about $20 cheaper!

As for Charlie being a bad business person... I had a question about my mandrel, and He answered it in a polite manner in less than an hour. I have no problems with the man at all, and am pleased to be able to to buy something that works well and is reasonably priced.

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I have not tried the Freechex II model Charlie is now making. I have four different caliber sets of his first generation models, and the gas checks they make out of aluminum cans work very well for me. Then I had to see the video that vonnieglen made of his using the 2nd gereration model, and I am facinated by it. So far, I have not bought one of the new models, but I am going to have to find another caliber to justify buying one of Charlie's new models.

I wish I could buy a two cavity mould in 10MM that would take a gas check - then I would surely have all the reason I need to buy one of his new models. Does anyone know of a 10MM 2-cavity mould that is designed for a gas check? I use what I think is a Ray Thompson design semi wadcutter mould for .357 and .44 calibers; I wish I could get the same design in 10MM.

I'm still pumping out my own gas checks from Charlie's first generation tool sets in .30 and .45 calibers for rifles as well as the two pistol calibers. So far, I have not had to sharpen the punches on any of them.

Hey Jeff,

I know you started a long time ago with Charlie's first generation tool sets. Have you tried any of his new model tool sets as yet?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[rayg]

Here's an email I sent to Charlie and thought I'd put it on this thread as it might be of interest to others and I'm sure he won't mind.

Here's what I wrote:
I just checked some Hornady and Sierra gas checks I have and
both have metal thickness of about .010-.011, or about the same as I'm using
with yours, the inside ID's on the bottm end are about the same as your's, maybe a few
thousands smaller. but the outside high end dia's on the mouth for the
Hornady's is .317 and the Seirra's is .312 with the bottom OD dia still the
same as yours. It looks like those cups are flared out to the larger dia. by
a forming mandrel with the bottom OD remaining the same.
I did notice that when running the cast bullets with the commerical checks
on. The only area of the check touched/crimped by the sizing die. is at the
mouth/top of the check.
This is interesting as instead of opening up the anvil as I was thinking
about doing, I experimented and used the rounded head of a machine screw
just to flare the OD to a larger .312-314 dia. which should work/seal in the
Enfield bore, .314.
The only problem that I could invision is the copper/brass checks of the
commerical ones would maintain that larger form better when fired then the
alum. ones. Don't know if that would make any difference or affect the
firing any though.
I won't be able to try them at the range for a week or two. But if they work
well, you might include the info that the checks could be enlarged/altered
for folks that need a larger OD for their checks. Ray End email.

Charlies 30 cal checks mike out at about .309 OD, bottom of cup to top, which work well as made for 30 cal but are undersize for 7.7. or .303 bullets that need bullets and checks that can be sized to .312-.314 OD in order to better gas seal. Flaring Charlies checks to those OD dia's like the commerical ones are would do it. Most of these .312-14 moulds have the same dia gas check shanks as the 30 cal bullets and are designed to use 30 cal gas checks and as I found out, the commerical GC's are just flared out so that can be used with larger dia bullets also. Ray

[JeffinNZ]

David: Yes, I have been using the FC II and they are wonderful. Much faster and more precise.

Rayg: Charlie now makes a .303 FC II to my specs producing GC's of at least .315 O/D.

[rayg]

That's great Jeff. Is the .315 check a straight .315 OD up and down, lip to bottom, or is it one of the 30 cal ones that Charlie has flared out to .315? If it's not a flared one won't you need a special bullet mould were the GC shank on the bullet is large enough for the larger gc to stay on. I only ask because most standard bullet moulds, even though they are .303 or .7.7. dia that cast to .312-14, they still have standard gc shanks dia that use the 30 cal size checks. And as I mentioned the commerical gc's are made flared out for that reason so the bottom still is the same as a 30 cal bullet shank.
I think by flaring Charlies 30 checks, it's the same thing as is done to the commerical ones and you really wouldn't need a special .315 gc one, Just my opinion, Ray

[jimb16]

My experience with Charlie was very good. I got the old style in .30 and the FCII in .357. Both worked fine althought the .30 did need a touch of sharpening. The checks work as well as the factory one sand I haven't had any significant problem with them staying on. If I do run across a bullet that has a slightly undersized base, I just put a speck of lube on the bottom and run it through the press a second time. Works like glue to seal the check in place. He was plenty polite with me and I ordered directly from him rather than go through ePay/Paypal. I wouldn't hesitate to order from him again.

[JeffinNZ]

That's great Jeff. Is the .315 check a straight .315 OD up and down, lip to bottom, or is it one of the 30 cal ones that Charlie has flared out to .315? If it's not a flared one won't you need a special bullet mould were the GC shank on the bullet is large enough for the larger gc to stay on. I only ask because most standard bullet moulds, even though they are .303 or .7.7. dia that cast to .312-14, they still have standard gc shanks dia that use the 30 cal size checks. And as I mentioned the commerical gc's are made flared out for that reason so the bottom still is the same as a 30 cal bullet shank.
I think by flaring Charlies 30 checks, it's the same thing as is done to the commerical ones and you really wouldn't need a special .315 gc one, Just my opinion, Ray

.315 straight(ish). If you require larger and can 1) ask Charlie to open up the forming mandrel or 2) do it yourself using some 600 grit and a .30cal cleaning rod.

[rayg]

.315 straight(ish). If you require larger and can 1) ask Charlie to open up the forming mandrel or 2) do it yourself using some 600 grit and a .30cal cleaning rod.

Jeff, I thought about opening it up but when I checked the commerical checks and saw they were just flared out to enlarge the dia there seemed to be no need to open up the mandrel as long as you can just flare out Charlies 30 cal checks to open them up to .315, Ray

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

You guys get me all worked up and jealous when I see videos and hear you tell about using the new Freechex II tool. The old model tool sets I have work just fine for the four calibers I have, but I have to find an excuse to buy one of the new ones.

Like I said earlier, I would like to make my own 10MM bullets and checks, but I have not seen any 10MM moulds that use gas checks. Does anyone know of a 10 mould that is designed to use a gas check?

From the time I bought my MegaStar 10MM about 15 years ago, I have mostly used commerciall cast bullets. They are OK, but I would always prefer my own cast bullets if I had a choice. I know I can buy a 10MM mould without a gas check, but I really cannot bring myself to spend the bucks on a mould I really do not want. If anyone has any suggestions, please tell me. I really want to get one of those new Freechex II sets and an arbor press from Harbor Freight.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Tom W.]

After I e-mailed Charlie about my checks being WAAAYY to big and staying in the lubrisizer, he sent me a different mandrel. and a sample of 0.014 aluminum. I punched out a few checks and ran the bullets through the sizer and you couldn't ask for a better fit. They even fit better than my Store boughten checks in the red box!

[rayg]

I finally had a chance to try out the home made gas checks I made at the range the other day to see how flaring out the 30 cal checks would work in my .303 Enfield. They were made with the 30 cal die set and using .010-.011 thick aluminum from a 3 liter olive oil can and flared out to about .315 at the opening/mouth.
I took my 10 yr old grandson shooting so I only loaded 5 rds of light loads of 10 grs unique to see how they would work and as you can see they did quite well, in fact this group is better then any I ever shot with the commerical checks I've been using.
It seems that Just flaring out the 30 cal. checks to work in the larger caliber as I had suggested, does work. Ray