.450 Marlin in 1895 - what to do?

[scaevola]

I have been wanting a big-bore lever action for a while and found this for a good price:
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss179/rtnpchpic/Mobile%20Uploads/8af5c739-adde-4142-9bfa-8f7889a420ca_zps9d3661a3.jpg

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss179/rtnpchpic/Mobile%20Uploads/4fc0dba2-c0c2-4864-9e30-0c26c5a24b0e_zpsfb27e54f.jpg

Link to Marlin webpage:
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895m.asp

It looks almost new so I'm sure it's been shot very little. I know brass is going to be hard to come by but I don't plan to acquire more than about a hundred cases. The one box of ammo I bought was over $40 after tax -- at that price I won't shoot it if I don't reload it. I'd rather use cast bullets to save money and need input.

Does anybody have experience shooting and reloading this? Can you recommend dies, bullets, loads ... etc?

This is going to be more of a range plinker than a hunting rifle. There's no game I'm likely to run into this is a top choice for; that doesn't mean I won't take it hunting anyway ... just 'cause I want to.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
As I understand the 450 Marlin is based on the 458 Mag brass.
I would start looking for some used 458 mag brass and do some trimming. The rest would be looking up loading info. If you have any .460 molds put them to use. I shoot 350-400 grainers in my 45-70 lever rifles. Most the tri-ceritops have fled my river bottom areas in east ILL so there is little need for bigger slugs unless some rampaging toyota needs thumped.
MIke in Peru

[MaLar]

The 450 Marlin is not based on the 458 Win cart.
It is it's own cartridge. The head space would be way off if you used the 458 cart, Creating a dangerous situation.
The belt on the Marlin round is moved forward of what the standard belt on all other std belted mag cartridges.
I'm sure there is plenty of loading info around the web plus in newer reloading manuals.
Could use 45-70 loads for the Marlin, Win 1886 rifles.

[MrWolf]

The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions 4th Edition states the 450 Marlin is a new case design and not to make from other belted cases. Take from it what you will. I am new to the cartridge conversion as I am trying to make 32 long colt cases as finding them is extremely hard. Good luck.

[wrench man]

There are two basic belted shells, big and small, the 450 Marlin is a half breed of them both!, it uses the small diameter and the big belt, as said the 458 brass wont head space as it's the small belt, and to make matters worse IIRC? the "Leverevolution" brass is short so you're stuck putting the gummy tipped bullets back in it!?
Hornady does still sell the regular brass as a component, and just about any .458" boolit/bullet can be used, FP/RN, I picked up several boxes of the "Custom" ammo before they discontinued it and got some of the component brass, it's full length, and one of the local retailers was closing out (Hornady still makes them) the .458 350grn FP, powder and primers are no issue.
I use RCBS dies.

[Firebricker]

This is interesting I had thought (wrongly btw) that the .450 Marlin was just a belted version of a 45/70 so that cartridges could be loaded to full potential without worry of being used in a weaker 45/70 action. If you can secure a decent supply of brass at least with shooting plinker loads you should get long case life. The other nice thing is being able to use good old 45/70 moulds. And congratulations on a good deal it does look like new. FB

[fouronesix]

I could do without the porting- but that's a personal thing:) Nothing wrong with the 450 in the Marlin. After all, if most folks choose to load the 45-70 to less than max so it's "shootable", then the 450 would be equally easy.

FWIW, most suppliers are out of 450 brass, so if you find some probably be a good idea to grab it. I did notice that Amazon has some Hornady at 58.00 per 50.

[Fishman]

I had the same dilemma with a nice .308 marlin chambered rifle. I chose to buy it and bought 5 boxes of ammo for $135 for the brass. I'm keeping my eye open for some empties. Anyway, still a bargain with the ammo cost and that's how I would measure your deal if I were you.

The porting will make for a real nice range shooter, but wear muffs and plugs too. My 1894p 44 mag has that porting pattern and with full bore loads the barrel actually is slightly nudged down in recoil. I got to use it loaded with lee 310's once on a herd of pigs and it was very effective on follow up shots.

So I say if you like it, buy it!

[scaevola]

Interesting replies. I wanted to shoot it today but it rained all day; that doesn't often happen here.

Found a set of dies on GunBroker and bought them.

Now I need some brass and bullets. I'm not planning on buying any more factory ammo.

[TXGunNut]

First order of business is to acquire as much brass as you think you'll need for as long as you'll own the rifle; it's not going to get any easier to find. Second thing is to warn anyone shooting beside you to wear muffs and plugs, be very careful in hunting situations as well. I had a hunting guide that wanted to stand next to the muzzle brake on my Guide Gun once, had to pass on that shot, lol.
If you can find a RD 460-350 mould, buy it and take that rifle hunting.

[scaevola]

I am looking for brass, most places are out of stock. I'll watch and pick it up. Worst case I'll buy some loaded ammo to shoot. As for the bullet; do you mean this one?
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/1111-108-460350GrRFRD.jpg
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=1345


First order of business is to acquire as much brass as you think you'll need for as long as you'll own the rifle; it's not going to get any easier to find. Second thing is to warn anyone shooting beside you to wear muffs and plugs, be very careful in hunting situations as well. I had a hunting guide that wanted to stand next to the muzzle brake on my Guide Gun once, had to pass on that shot, lol.
If you can find a RD 460-350 mould, buy it and take that rifle hunting.

[bikerbeans]

The case capacity of the 450 Marlin is less than the 45-70, so I wouldn't run with 45-70 data, at least not the higher pressure loadings.

BB

[Ole]

I shoot the Ranch Dog bullets almost exclusively in my 450 Marlin guide gun. Jacketed bullets run 35-40 cents each and my lead slugs shoot just as well!

Short range can tipping/plinking: Try 12gr of Unique with the 425 or 350gr RD bullet. This round runs around 1170fps and is good out to 75 yards or so. Maybe 100 but things start really dropping off at that distance.

My hunting round is the RD 350 and 30gr of SR4759. It runs around 1700fps and is good out to 200 yards or so.

If you're looking for a reason to visit your dentist, you can push a 405 jacketed or 425 lead bullet up to 1900-2000fps with right around 50gr of H322, but those aren't fun to shoot.

Very versatile round for such a big cartridge. I almost never run mine at full throttle but it's nice to know I could if I wanted to.

PM me if you want to try some of the RD bullets and I can send you a few samples.

[TXGunNut]

I am looking for brass, most places are out of stock. I'll watch and pick it up. Worst case I'll buy some loaded ammo to shoot. As for the bullet; do you mean this one?
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/1111-108-460350GrRFRD.jpg
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=1345

That's the one!

[Ole]

FYI midsouth has 450 Marlin brass in stock:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/Dept/Reloading/Rifle_Brass/450_Marlin

It ain't cheap, but should last a long time. I anneal the necks on my brass every 4 or 5 firings. I have several cases that I've used 10ish times and they are still going strong.

[TXGunNut]

Wow, not bad at all. Really like Hornady brass, need very little prepping or sorting.
Shouldn't take hundreds of pieces to keep a 450 fed for awhile, its not like you're going to plink away an afternoon with it on a regular basis. ;-)

[Geezer in NH]

I would still pass and get a 45-70 instead

[scaevola]

I was finally able to shoot the Marlin today. Very cool experience with about the recoil I expected. I was pleased with the accuracy and enjoyed watching a couple of the targets bounce around the landscape.

I can't find components locally so I'm going to order bullets and cases online. I think I'll go with lead or plated bullets. I'll try load them toward the top of reasonable velocities because loading this down to light loads would take the fun out of it. I hope I'll be loading for this by the end of the week.

Thanks for your help folks; any further advice or direction would be appreciated.

[TXGunNut]

Trying to buy a decent cast 45-70 boolit is what brought me here; I wasn't able to do it. I know they're out there but I spent a fair bit of cash but it was a waste of time and money. Save up for a pot and a good mould or two, you'll soon be casting better boolits than you can buy.

[scaevola]

That's too bad as I was hoping somebody here could recommend one.

Trying to buy a decent cast 45-70 boolit is what brought me here; I wasn't able to do it. I know they're out there but I spent a fair bit of cash but it was a waste of time and money.
I just got back into reloading this past year after not doing so for almost 15 years. I don't yet have the equipment to cast but I'm working on it.

Save up for a pot and a good mould or two, you'll soon be casting better boolits than you can buy.

[TXGunNut]

May want to check the Swap & Sell section, we have a few vendors who sell boolits. Trust me tho, there are few feelings better than casting your own boolits...until you take your boolits hunting and bring home some meat.

[stubert]

I am loading for a 45-70 and also could not find lead .458 cal. bullets that I liked. They were to small, or to hard, or bevel based, or the lube was to hard, etc. I have 2 molds both from RCBS, 45-405 fn and the 45-300 fn. I had the 405 grain hollowpointed so now I have 3 bullets to feed it. I use 50-50 moly-beeswax lube on everything I cast for.

[scaevola]

I used to cast SWC for my .38 and .357 pistols and rifle years ago -- that's all the experience I have with casting bullets. I do recall being pretty proud of myself for the low cost .38s I could load. I am watching the S & S section and have been given some guidance what to look for in this thread.

May want to check the Swap & Sell section, we have a few vendors who sell boolits. Trust me tho, there are few feelings better than casting your own boolits...until you take your boolits hunting and bring home some meat.

I will probably buy this first batch of bullets in bulk and by the time the first buy is gone I'll have acquired what I need to be casting again. I do hope reading the posts in the forum will get me to a good choice first purchase so I don't end up with dozens of molds and difficulty making my choice. ;)

I am loading for a 45-70 and also could not find lead .458 cal. bullets that I liked. They were to small, or to hard, or bevel based, or the lube was to hard, etc. I have too molds both from RCBS, 45-405 fn and the 45-300 fn. I had the 405 grain hollowpointed so now I have 3 bullets to feed it. I use 50-50 moly-beeswax lube on everything I cast for.

[TXGunNut]

I used to cast SWC for my .38 and .357 pistols and rifle years ago -- that's all the experience I have with casting bullets. I do recall being pretty proud of myself for the low cost .38s I could load. I am watching the S & S section and have been given some guidance what to look for in this thread.-scaevola

A good hunting boolit is no more difficult to cast than a SWC target boolit. Dunno here the Nike icon has gotten off to so all I can say is "just do it!"

[bigted]

Trying to buy a decent cast 45-70 boolit is what brought me here; I wasn't able to do it. I know they're out there but I spent a fair bit of cash but it was a waste of time and money. Save up for a pot and a good mould or two, you'll soon be casting better boolits than you can buy.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/476462/lee-melter-furnace-110-volt?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363401/lee-1-cavity-bullet-mold-459-405-hb-45-70-government-459-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose-hollow-base?cm_vc=ProductFinding

these will get you started in as inexpensive a fashion as is possible I betcha. the pot will require a dipper and that boolit has done very well in just about any .458 to .460 diameter rifle ive tried it in. like is mentioned ... just step into it and give it a whirl ... these prices will allow you to get your feet wet without breaking the bank ... then just watch your cash go away when the addiction really sets in.

[scaevola]

Thanks bigted, that's the kind of information I'm looking for. Just a few boxes of factory ammo or bullets replaced by handloads will cover the cost your recommendations.

My dies arrived today; they look new or barely used, not bad for a $25 buy it now on GunBroker. I found a box of the same Hornady 325 grain bullets that were in the box of factory ammo I bought. That will be me my first experience with reloading this cartridge.

I still need to order some brass, right now I've only got 20 cases.

[tygar]

As someone said the 450 is not to use 458 brass. The belt is different.

The 450 loads to higher pressure than 45-70 & will therefore shoot somewhat faster, not that it would make a lot of diff in killing.

I like the FTX 325 Hornady & 350 Hornady in Factory ammo. In cast mine shoots various HPs & solids from 315-425 well. I have settled on those in that 325-350 range of the factory loads since they all shoot well, will kill anything in N. America & are easy shooting. Several powders work well find what works in yours. I know were talking about cast but that 325 FTX is really a great bullet! I think I've cronied it at 2250 & MOA.

[Ole]

Thanks bigted, that's the kind of information I'm looking for. Just a few boxes of factory ammo or bullets replaced by handloads will cover the cost your recommendations.

My dies arrived today; they look new or barely used, not bad for a $25 buy it now on GunBroker. I found a box of the same Hornady 325 grain bullets that were in the box of factory ammo I bought. That will be me my first experience with reloading this cartridge.

I still need to order some brass, right now I've only got 20 cases.

Scaevela if you want full house/pig snort/tree stumper loads with those 325's try H322 powder if you have some.

I have loaded up to 51gr of that powder with the Remington 405 bullet and they will most certainly get your attention when you touch one off.

I shoot dialed back rounds now (350 cast bullet around 1700) and use 30 grains of SR4759 for propellent.

EDIT: just realized I already listed this data earlier in this thread. :mrgreen:

[TXGunNut]

EDIT: just realized I already listed this data earlier in this thread. :mrgreen: -Ole


Hate it when that happens, but good info nonetheless.:bigsmyl2: