Are there really so few of us? (Or, why do gun companies keep missing the boat?)

[MakeMineA10mm]

I think this a perfect place for a support group, so....

Hi, My name may be "MakeMineA10mm" but I have a serious addiction to anything with the name "44" in it.

I've owned, shot, reloaded, casted, and been generally totally enamored with 44s since nearly before there was a 10mm, going on 30 years now. I began shooting the 44 Magnum in 1983, and I've never looked back. I blame this mostly on growing up reading Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton. Now, Skeeter was a 357 Magnum man, but he had deep affection for 44s, especially the 44 Special, as I'm sure you all know. Elmer Keith, well.... Do I need to say anything?!?

I know I'm not alone, here, right? Do you guys keep going back and re-reading through Gun Notes, Hell I Was There, Sixguns, and Skelton's articles in old Shooting Times?

One of the stand-out things about Skelton and Keith was their particular likes or "druthers" in their sixguns. Skelton liked the 5" barrel on the N-frame, and Keith liked the Magna stocks and 4" barrel on his 44s (both Specials and Magnums). They also both liked single-actions, good gun leather, and purpose-driven modifications or "enhancements" to their pistols. (Keith's #5 maybe being the most extensively modified between the two men.)

Now, here's my main gripe (as you could tell by the subtitle of this thread):

Guns have changed some since these two icons were around. One of the points these men made, was that the 44 Special has a benefit of being a lighter gun than the 44 Magnum. A few people in the industry in modern times "get it" and have ran with that idea, albeit in a limited edition (Lipsey's Ruger 44 Specials) or a semi-custom gun (Freedom Arms Model 97). I hear Ruger has added the 44 Special Blackhawk (357-sized medium frame) to it's regular catalog, and even though it's expensive and there's a wait, Freedom Arms will still make a 44 Special 97. So, I'm pretty happy with the state of single actions.

It's the double-actions I'm more than a little disappointed about. (Yes, Smith and Wesson, I'm calling you out!) S&W almost made it. They came awful darn close to making a perfect DA 44 Special with their Model 696. The trouble was, it had a really thin forcing cone. So, sticking with the L-Frame idea to make it smaller and lighter, but attacking that forcing cone issue, they messed around with the 2-piece barrel system and some heat treating, and pretty soon, they realized they could chamber the cylinder for 44 Magnum safely. I'm sure the marketing department got together with the bean counters and decided that they should run with that idea, as the Magnum label appeals to more people and we 44 Special aficionados would load it down anyway. A classic example of not giving us what we want, but what they think will sell and telling us to like it or go away...

Here's what would be better (IMO, FWIW):
-- Start with the L-Frame, but give it the old, square-butt, longer grip frame. Base it on the new Model 69, so it has a stronger, larger-circumference breach ring for the forcing cone area of the barrel. (See below.)
-- Chamber it in 44 Special.
-- Go back to the old-style, front of ejector-rod lock-up system (which was only changed on the new Model 69 because of the pressures of the 44 Magnum; chambering it in the Special precludes the need for the new system).
-- Use a traditional-looking, 1-piece barrel. By traditional-looking, I mean - a tapered barrel like was used on the M24 with the thin, lighter barrel walls, and the thin, profiled ejector rod housing (not the full-round, lopped-off ejector rod housing you've been putting on all L-frames that seems to give me the impression a troll in the basement with a dremel tool cut off the front part of a M-586 barrel to make it "look" like a short ejector rod housing, but leaves a full-round "bull-barrel" style ejector rod housing). To make up for the thin forcing cone issue, use the new Model 69's larger breach ring and re-size the forcing cone area of the barrel to fit that breach ring. This will give the forcing cone all the thickness it needs, even for hot-rodded 44 Specials (which will not get shot much out of such a light gun, but still, it will handle it, no matter what). And, finally, regarding the barrel, we only need two lengths: 5" and 3.5". For the 3.5" make it end at the end of the ejector rod housing, so it looks like the 1930s FBI Registered Magnums with the 3.5" barrels. (I'm giving you some lee-way here, as I'm not sure the ejector rod housing on this new L-Frame barrel will cause the barrel cut-off at its end to be exactly 3.5", but I'm sure it will be close, possibly 3-3/8" or some such.)
-- Lastly, make this in both an adjustable-sight and a fixed sight version.
-- Oh - there's always one more thing... Get rid of that stupid lock on the side of the frame. Either just eliminate it, for this model like you have for some other "classics," or set about your design engineers to come up with a more clever design that is completely hidden from view like the Ruger designers did, where you have to remove the grip panel to activate or de-activate it. (While you're at it, do it one better than Ruger and instead of making it part of the frame, design it so we can just take it completely out of the gun and throw it away, without it effecting the function of the gun...)

I've posted a similar idea over on the Smith & Wesson Forums, and people there loved the idea. (This was before the Model 69 came out, so my idea about the larger breach/forcing cone was not in that posting.) I'm betting a lot of you guys here would support a factory-made double-action 44 Special that fits the bill better than anything that has come before.

Is there really so few of us REAL 44 Special guys around that we can't get a proper DA 44 Special built? Ruger and Freedom Arms are doing it (and probably a couple others I'm leaving out)...

[Frank46]

I always wanted a 44 special but when Ruger came out with theirs and after shooting a buddy's it still left me wanting a genuine S&W 44 special. Just as I was leaving a local gun show a few years back I spotted a 624 with 6.5" bbl. Bit the bullet and she came home with me. Had the red C on the box and shooting it with WW silvertips was almost like shooting a 22. Gunshows have always been my downfall as when I have no money I see what I would like to have. One show one of the higher end dealers had one of the 24-3 3" bbld lew horton guns. I jumped on it so fast the wife who was with me didn't see me until the deed had been done. And last but not least was the 24-3 4" bbld one that went home. Went to a local show in December and was the first in over a year. Got a bubba'd Chilean 1895 mauser to play around with this winter. Frank

[Adam10mm]

I like the 44 special. Haven't a gun for it but some brass and a 44-250-K mold. Single action is first choice. A gp100 size da would be neat with a four inch barrel.

[ejcrist]

Amen Brother! I'm more of a single action guy than DA but I'd buy the 44 Special you described in a New York minute. I thought I remember seeing a S&W classic model 24 once a while back but by the time I could afford one I didn't see it being made anymore. I don't know - maybe I was just dreaming or something. I have the Ruger BH 44 Special in 5 1/2" barrel but I really wanted a 6 1/2"-7 1/2" so I have a Freedom Arms 97 on order. Can't wait to get it. But yeah, I'm definitely with you on that idea. My guess as to why they don't make it is the cost is high and there probably isn't a large enough market to break even on. I'm guessing the market for high-speed, cool looking (in some's minds) semi-auto's is the most profitable so that's what they do. I'd be happier if they included revolvers like you described, even if the price was high relative to the other handguns. I think there'd be plenty enough of a market for them even if they cost between $1,000-$1,500. Just my $0.02.

[Piedmont]

There just isn't a market. I have a 6.5" M624 and had a 4" and stupidly sold it more than 15 years ago. I thought it recoiled too much with 250 grain bullets. Now I have a lighter mold. S&W makes that L frame in .44 mag now since they strengthened it. That is what everyone will buy.

Face it, just about everyone would rather buy a .44 Mag or .357 Mag and stick specials in there if they want. It is only weirdos like us that want the specials. Heck, I had a .44 Russian made. How weird is that?

As a point of interest I am very happy Ruger gave us the .44 Special single actions but they are heavy because they are all steel. Much heavier than a Ruger 3 screw .357 conversion and heavier even than an all steel Colt SAA or New Frontier.

You need to just commission a revolversmith and have them make what you want. The factories won't do it. Maybe we could have a thread on our custom revolvers. I have a buddy that converted a New Model .357 Flattop to a 4" .40 S&W. I still think that is about as cool as revolvers get and am tempted to do the same but I don't load that round and want to downsize, not add to the clutter.

[Bazoo]

I am not much of a special kind of guy. I dont care for 44's much either. I am a 357 nut though. I like the 38 special pretty good but not like I like the 357 magnum.

That said, I have though about a ruger 357 converted to 44 special on occasion, I believe i'd fancy that idea. Or , a single action in 44 special period would be pretty nice. Paired with a 44 magnum rifle. One would have options.

I gave it a long hard thought, some time back, and I decided to go with the 357 for a number of reasons. Mostly notably, the history.

[Hickory]

I have had a S&W69 ordered since I first read about it a year ago.
The plan is to shoot it with 44 magnum brass but load it as no more than a 44 special+p, a load that would disappoint Elmer Keith's expectations.

[buckwheatpaul]

MakeMineA10mm you have some very valid points....however, with the latest RELOADER magazine bringing those issues to light I doubt that the bean counters will ever fix it.....not that many people want a 44 special when they can have a 44 mag. and still shoot the 44 special.....as pointed out if you keep the pressure under 15000 psi all is good and those loads listed will more than do the job whether it be paper, deer, or for self-defense.....That same problem is what killed the Mod 19 and the 66...most shooters want the "most powerful" when in reality most will only shoot lighter loads.....I love the 44 special and most of my loads are in the realm of what was outlined in the article....however, I use the old powders....old guy kind of thing....thanks for posting and we can only pray that the S & W people will fix the problem before it kills a great revolver...

[Zouave 58]

Don't forget a broached barrel instead of a EDM.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Only caliber 44 I have is a 2.5 inch barrelled titanium 5 shot by Taurus. That one will never leave. The rest left home when I realised between 41 mag and 45 Colt I had little use for a caliber in between. I did keep all the 44 Russians though as they are thier own nitch of fun.
But if you go to GB there are always numerous 44 Specials for sale. Use some patience and the right one at the right price will plop right up.
44 Special is a fine one and happily is still available.
Mike in Peru

[contender1]

A few posts above, as well as a comment in the OP explains it all.

Bean counters.

That said, any company, (not just gun companies,) are in business to make money. The product is the route to that end. Add in stockholders, and the bean counters force the companies to figure out the best way to build a product to sell to a lot of people & make money.
Bill Ruger built his company on his method of manufacturing over others by changing the way things had been done for decades. And he was one frugal individual. He made things in a way that it was cheaper to built the product.

It's all about profit, and unfortunately, too many folks just wouldn't buy what you described, BECAUSE of the cost of making it and what they would have to sell it for.
Ruger was able to be successful because they already had the frame size (mid-frame) stuff from the early years. And by building the 44 spl in that frame, NOT making it a 44 mag it was safe.
Safety is another reason a lot of guns don't get built by factories. Can we say idiots & lawsuits?

A lot goes on behind the scenes that many consumers don't know or understand. But it comes down to what can they build to make money.

[theperfessor]

A 5 shot 3" bbl GP100 in .44 Special is one of my dream revolvers.

[rintinglen]

I have 3 44 specials and have owned 4 others previously, and there is a sound reason that S&W won't bother with a 44 Special--they won't sell!

When you go to the range, what do you see? A few revolvers awash in a sea of plastic handled 9mm's and 40's. The only Revolvers that still sell in respectable numbers are the Single actions, the Magnums and the snubbies. Even the snubbies are magnums, as often as not. When S&W has made 44 Specials available, what has happened? After the initial splurge of purchasing, sales dropped off to nada. I bought my 624 new on clearance for 268 dollars--a full hundred bucks off list, and those were 1988 dollars. That gun was less accurate than my 38's and 357's, bigger too. It was less accurate than the Redhawk, so two years later when I needed money, out the door it went at a tidy profit. My 21 came to me the same way. After sitting on the shelf at a major distributor for nearly a year they marked it down to $696 off of a list of 855. The travails of the L-frame 44 Specials and the broken forcing cones back in the 90's has been mentioned before. 44 specials? Each time S&W has made them they have been bitten . Don't look for them to change their minds anytime soon.

And even amongst those that like them, there is not a unanimous opinion. The OP wants a 3 and 1/2 incher and a 5 inch, and I'd want a 4 and a 6.5. All 44 enthusiasts do with their clamour is make new varieties of odd-ball models for future collectors... Oh, and have fun shooting them.

[Petrol & Powder]

Similar to Theperfessor - I wish Ruger would make a 44 Special GP100. I think there's enough metal in the GP100 cylinder that you could get 5 chambers in there without changing the external diameter of the cylinder. The frame is strong enough and with those big bores, it might actually weigh less than a boat anchor. I also think there's a market for that concept.

MakeMineA10mm - very valid points and I agree with a lot of your ideas.

I far prefer a 44 Special over the 44 magnum, both in terms of the performance of the cartridge and the guns themselves. A DA revolver chambered in 44 Special can be made a bit lighter than the same gun in 44 magnum. Unfortunately there aren't too many DA 44 Specials available and I'm not a big fan of single action revolvers (There's nothing wrong with SA and I've had my share, I just gravitate towards DA)

The S&W models 21, 24 and 624 are pretty much what is available and they tend to be limited in supply and ridiculously high priced. There are some other DA 44 Specials out there but it's a limited field. It's unfortunate but the 44 magnum just about killed off the 44 Special. For whatever reason, the 38 Special escaped that same fate, probably because of the target disciplines and the usefulness of 38 snubnose revolvers.
The other strike against the 44 Special in terms of marketing, is the factory ammunition that is available for the 44 Special. In a word, "it sucks"! You just about have to be a handloader to get decent performance out of the 44 Special. It's a great cartridge but not in its factory loadings. Not everyone is a handloader and the availability of factory ammunition affects the marking of guns.
rintinglen, as for the reluctance of S&W to get back into the 44 Special market - I would argue with you if I could but I don't have a leg to stand on. You're right, S&W is in business to make money, not guns.

When I decided to get back into the 44 game I REALLY wanted a DA 44 Special revolver. I couldn't find one that was both a decent gun and didn't require a 2nd mortgage. I capitulated and purchased a 44 magnum. At least I was able to get a Mountain Gun with tapered barrel. It's not a 44 Special but it was as close as I could get without needing a second job.
At least with the magnum, I can download to Skeeter level loads and have a huge margin of safety in the strength of the gun.

[shoot-n-lead]

The other strike against the 44 Special in terms of marketing, is the factory ammunition that is available for the 44 Special. In a word, "it sucks"! You just about have to be a handloader to get decent performance out of the 44 Special. It's a great cartridge but not in its factory loadings. Not everyone is a handloader and the availability of factory ammunition affects the marking of guns.
rintinglen, as for the reluctance of S&W to get back into the 44 Special market - I would argue with you if I could but I don't have a leg to stand on. You're right, S&W is in business to make money, not guns.

This is the elephant in the room concerning the 44 special...ammo availability and cost of factory ammo are real problems.

For those wanting a 44 special DA carry gun, the Rossi 720 is fine quality gun for not much money.

[Vulcan Bob]

We may well be few but we do buy em! When the S&W brought out the 22-1 I bought one, when they came out with the 22-4 I bought one, same with the classic 24 I bought one a nice shiny nickeled 6 1/2 incher, with its trim tapered barrel it feels real good in the hand. When Lipseys/Ruger brought out the Flat Top in .44 Special I bought three of em and the NV in .44 Special. The mid size Flat Top in .45 Colt/ACP was a no brainer, snarfed one of them too. I too cannot fathom why they don't satisfy the cravings of us non conformists with special runs now and again, how hard can it be?

[shoot-n-lead]

I too cannot fathom why they don't satisfy the cravings of us non conformists with special runs now and again, how hard can it be?

I agree...if they can do runs of 1000 for distributors...seems like they could do the same for us.

I would love to have a new 44 special SP101 or GP100...short barrel, of course.

[jmort]

Are there really so few of us?
Yes

If there were fewer laws and restrictions on firearms, niche markets would be better served.

[rintinglen]

I agree...if they can do runs of 1000 for distributors...seems like they could do the same for us.

I would love to have a new 44 special SP101 or GP100...short barrel, of course.

If one thousand of us could get together and commission a special edition of an existing gun, it could happen, but the task of selling them through normal distribution,makes it daunting. I don't happen to have the 3-5 million it would take to fund such an endeavor. Especially in these times of shortages--when was the last time you saw a box of 44 Specials on the shelf of your local gun store--odd ball calibers just don't have mass appeal. Now don't get me wrong, my guns are not for sale, but I realize that my taste for the exotic is not shared by the multitude, and I have my brass already, and I cast. GOLDEN!

127066

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, there are a LOT of good comments here.

First, while I support the idea of a GP-100 in 44 Spl., I've always been a S&W man when it comes to DA revolvers. I think GP-100s are good-looking, well-built, and about the perfect size, but the DA trigger is just not to my liking, at least not as much as a good S&W's DA trigger pull. Believe it or not, I don't like Colt Pythons for the same reason. Great-looking, well built, right size, but Colt DA is bad. I prefer the Ruger to a Python...

A couple of you picked up on my derision towards accountants. Ironically, all of them I know personally are nice guys, but when it comes to running a gun company, I'd rather a gun enthusiast was in charge and the accountants just told him where the profit point was and let him make good stuff instead of a lot of compromises... Our whole world's economy has become a "just-in-time," "throw-away," "six-sigma" pile of garbage. No craftsmanship and no "building a better product" (regardless of the cost) any more. Basically, zero corporate pride; everything's about the weekly profit/loss sheet... (The one different company? Apple, but I digress.)

I think I'm going to do what Piedmont suggested and have one made. This will only work if the Mod. 624 barrel fits (or is really, really close) the breach window of the 69 and the ejector rod shroud lines up with the ejector. Guess I'll be doing some researching on that next. I've had a pristine M586 in the safe to have converted, but finding a gunsmith to do the proper shaping of the ejector rod housing is daunting, and then, with the new M69's bigger breach window, I figured it's a much better starting point.

[44 Special]

A 5 shot 3" bbl GP100 in .44 Special is one of my dream revolvers.

Yep, that's my dream revolver too.

[Petrol & Powder]

"...........Basically, zero corporate pride; everything's about the weekly profit/loss sheet........"

I hear you but reality must intrude. General Motors doesn't exist to make cars and S&W doesn't exist to make guns. Businesses exist to make MONEY. If your company goes bankrupt you will not be building/selling ANYTHING!
Now, some companies are able to turn a profit at different price points. Rolls Royce produces far fewer cars per year than GM but their profit margin on each car is far greater. I would also dare say that GM makes more total profit than Rolls. However Rolls Royce and GM are hardly in competition with each other. The same is true with Holland & Holland vs. Remington. Quality costs money and if there's a big enough demand for that quality you can make a profit but if there isn't...... you can't lose money on each unit and stay in business for long.
A big part of engineering is finding ways to produce an acceptable product while keeping the cost down. Sometimes those cost cutting measures are met with less than enthusiastic consumers. [MIM parts come to mind, as do post 1964 Winchesters] Sometimes cost cutting is embraced by the consumers (The Remington 870 shotgun for example)
The entire endeavor is one big compromise. How big is the market, at what price point, at what level of quality and how much money do we need to make to stay in business?
S&W could build revolvers that cost as much as a Korth but they wouldn't be able to sell very many.
I completely agree with your statement about lack of pride but the ultimate question is, "what is good enough and how much are you willing to pay for it?"

[Thumbcocker]

The companies are making a boat load of money selling Tupperware pocket pistols to soccer moms.

[John Allen]

44 happens to be my favorite caliber too. My guns are mainly magnums but I have quite a few and almost always take one with me to the range.

[Petrol & Powder]

The companies are making a boat load of money selling Tupperware pocket pistols to soccer moms.

Good! Which firearm company stocks should I buy?

[MakeMineA10mm]

44 happens to be my favorite caliber too. My guns are mainly magnums but I have quite a few and almost always take one with me to the range.

I caught the bug badly. Have 44 Russian, 44 Colt, 44WCF, 44 Spl., 44 Magnum, and 444 Marlin. Thought hard about getting a 404 Jeffrey, but it's .006" too small. :-). Still thinking about how to get a 44 American.

[oger]

Is there a real problem with the forcing cone on the 696? Sure it's thin but I have had no problems using real special loads not Elmer Keiths version of a special load. If you want a mag. load use a mag pistol. My Mountain gun really isn't that much heavier than the 696 although it is wider.

[MakeMineA10mm]

A few of them split. Not clear on why and how, but the 696 does have one of the thinnest barrels at the forcing cone I've ever seen...

[bedbugbilly]

I don't own a 44 spec. but it's on my "to do" list. I'm in the "old fart" class and like revolvers over anything else but primarily SA revolvers. If and when I get one, it will probably be a Uberti Colt clone.

Right now, I primarily am in love with the 38 spl. - enough that I have way too many of them ad really should weed out a half dozen or so. Anyway . . . as far as revolvers go, I really think there could possibly be far more that prefer the 38/357 and probably because they have never had the opportunity to shoot a 44? May be wrong on that.

As someone mentioned though - just take a look when you are at a range - revolvers seem to be in the minority but there is sure an over abundance of anything from .380 up through 45 in semis. I was discussing the revolver versus semi "thing" with a friend who owns a very busy gun shop - they sell many firearms in a year. He said that all I had to do was stand back and watch the customers come in and see what they looked at. The majority, especially younger folks, all want the semi-autos. Who knows what causes it - my generation grew up with cowboys, white hats and six shooters in our books, movies and the fairly new invention of TV. Today . . take a look at what the movies portray as well as TV . . and I won't even bring up the "Zombie" thing which I don't have a clue about.

Basically, I think it all comes down to what the market demands - and the demand evidently isn't enough to get more 44s made. It's too bad though. I'd like to see Ruger do more in regards to a good "carry" 44 that would sell at an affordable price. I'd like it even more it they would come up with a better choice as I would certainly purchase a "kit gun" or "general purpose" revolver in 44 spl. with a 3" barrel just to have the heavier punch of the 44 over the 38 once in a while. And let's face it - for those of us that reload - it certainly isn't going to break anyone to add the 44 to their list of reloading possibilities - a set of Lee dies (or whatever), a Lee DC mold and some brass will put you into another caliber at a reasonable price without breaking the bank.

But, until the demand is there, I just don't see a big expansion in the 44 offerings happening. But, I've been wrong before.

[captaint]

A GP100 in 44 Spec would be just the ticket. Only, mine would have to be in 6". Don't care if it's big and heavy. It won't be my carry gun. It WOULD be a fun gun,though... And a 5 shot cylinder would be OK, too.. My only 44Spec is a single action army, and I do love shooting that gun. Mike

[shoot-n-lead]

If one thousand of us could get together and commission a special edition of an existing gun, it could happen, but the task of selling them through normal distribution,makes it daunting. I don't happen to have the 3-5 million it would take to fund such an endeavor. Especially in these times of shortages--when was the last time you saw a box of 44 Specials on the shelf of your local gun store--odd ball calibers just don't have mass appeal. Now don't get me wrong, my guns are not for sale, but I realize that my taste for the exotic is not shared by the multitude, and I have my brass already, and I cast. GOLDEN!

127066

Look, we all have 44 special guns and the means to cast and reload for them. And, it would not be daunting at all for Ruger to get rid of 1000 44 special DA carry guns...just let it be known that they had produced them. I am not talking about making them a catalog item...just a limited run.

To say that a company that is selling a million guns a year cannot get rid of a limited run of 1000 guns...is a bit ridiculous. One ad in each of the 4 top handgun rags would have them gone in no time and they advertise in all of them anyway. This is just case of they do not want to go to the trouble of doing it...and that is their prerogative and I already have fine carry 44 special's ...so, it is really doesn't matter, anyway.

And, to call the 44 special "exotic" is a bit of stretch, also.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Look, we all have 44 special guns and the means to cast and reload for them. And, it would not be daunting at all for Ruger to get rid of 1000 44 special DA carry guns...just let it be known that they had produced them. I am not talking about making them a catalog item...just a limited run.

To say that a company that is selling a million guns a year cannot get rid of a limited run of 1000 guns...is a bit ridiculous. One ad in each of the 4 top handgun rags would have them gone in no time and they advertise in all of them anyway. This is just case of they do not want to go to the trouble of doing it...and that is their prerogative and I already have fine carry 44 special's ...so, it is really doesn't matter, anyway.

And, to call the 44 special "exotic" is a bit of stretch, also.

Well, If you believe the magazine articles, Lipsey's had to order 2000 of the 357-size flattop framed 44 Specials to get Ruger to produce it. They ordered 1000 in 4-5/8" and 1000 in 5-1/2".

I'll call Lipsey's tomorrow and see if they could do 1000 4" GP-100s in blue and another 1000 in stainless...

[rintinglen]

The reason the gun companies keep missing the boat is because it is such a small one and hard to hit.

The way that Ruger sells a million guns a year is not through making limited runs of specialty items. It is through making and selling commonly desired items at an affordable price. If you don't think the 44 special is off the beaten track, go to a busy range and wait until you see somebody come in with one to shoot. Do not hold your breath. It is a cartridge for the aficionado, not the hoi polloi.

I'd spring for a 4 inch GP 100 stainless, though.

[robertbank]

What Ruger should do is build a HP-100 as in a gun larger than the GP-100 but smaller than the Redhawk and make it in three calibers, 44 Special, 44Mag, and 45Colt with a barrel length of 4.2" or 105.1MM. Just use the same design as the GP-100 only one size bigger...a tweener if you need a name for it. The Redhawk is just to bg for the purpose at hand.

To the OP change out the mainspring and trigger return spring on your GP-100 and you will fall in love with the DA trigger pull. I shoot the GP-100 4.2" in IDPA with a 686 4" as back-up. My GP-100 has a better DA pull than the Smith albeit not by much, and weighs one ounce less. I have done nothing to the GP-100 but shoot it. My 686 is a No Dash,

Take Care

Bob

[GLL]

I have been a big fan of the .44 Special for many years and have accumulated a variety of S&W models. Although I love the old pre-war N-frames I find the newer 4” 624 to be the most practical.
Some years ago my local dealer could not give these guns away so made up sets in the factory wooden case and even included the tools. He had trouble selling them at $395 so I made a deal for several. I have found the 4” to be the perfect carry gun for me when working the mountains of the desert southwest ! 240 gr. 432423HP from MP over 6.5 grains of Unique works for me ! :)

http://www.fototime.com/4C8A79AFB40673A/orig.jpg

A person who does not reload should not consider buying a .44 Special !

Jerry

[robertbank]

That gun is pure art!


Bob

[gmsharps]

I have Colt New Frontier in 44spl and i'm keeping it.

gmsharps

[robsguns]

Exhuming this thread from the dead, just to say, you all got what you asked for. The GP-100 3" stainless .44 special, and Lipsey's GP-100 5" blued .44 special. Someone must have been listening.

[Tackleberry41]

Everybody seems to know why few make 44 spcls. I cant think of a single person in the last 30 yrs of shooting that owned one. I have never been to a range and seen someone shooting one. Never been in a shop and heard someone ask for 44 spcl ammo. I have never picked up a piece of 44 spcl brass. Its like 38 super, yes its popular with a narrow slice of shooters. Its rare to see 38 super on a shelf for sale. Shops don't carry it as few ever ask for it.

Some have pointed out, factory 44 spcl sucks. Its one of those self fulfilling prophecies. Shops don't carry the ammo as nobody buys it, nobody buys it because what there is sucks. Few business will put the effort into offering better ammo that few buy. Its the same with alot of obscure ammos some of us use. Why don't more use the 357 sig, well the ammo is expensive, and its expensive because few buy it. I doubt its more expensive to make.

So pretty much to get good performance out of a 44spcl, you have to hand load, well there went 80% of your potential customers. And its generally not recommended to use hand loads in a carry gun, so your stuck with the subpar stuff on a shelf, so you carry something else. There is just not the demand for most companies to justify making them. Guns that after the initial interest, would languish on shelves. Not like it would take 100,000 units to satisfy the 44 spcl market. One could imagine Ruger has plenty of work just filing orders for popular guns.

Yes a 44 spcl only gun is way lighter and smaller than a magnum, same as 38 and 357. But we come back to the ammo, whats available isnt any good, so whos going to carry a gun full of it. Everybody wants somebody else to go first. Ammo companies arent going to make better ammo without the guns, gun companies arent going to make the guns without the ammo, so stalemate. Just be nice if Charter arms could make a consistently decent gun.

[Wayne Smith]

I caught the bug badly. Have 44 Russian, 44 Colt, 44WCF, 44 Spl., 44 Magnum, and 444 Marlin. Thought hard about getting a 404 Jeffrey, but it's .006" too small. :-). Still thinking about how to get a 44 American.

The ONLY difference between the 44American and the 44Russian is the heeled boolit in the 44American. Are you sure you want to go there? This from the guy who loves his 41Colt!

[Blackwater]

You're preachin' to the choir, MakeMine, but it's a sweet, if sad song you sing. I too long wanted a .44 Special, but until Ruger came out with their Flat Top, the offerings available just didn't wind my clock. Mostly, I just need to get out with mine more, really. In my neck of the woods, there's really nothing that can't be done with good form by a .44 Special mid-range load. Yeah, a mag. might do it with more flash and bang and drama. But as I've gotten older, I've finally realized the virtues of "good enough." And the .44 Special is certainly "good enough" for anything I do with a handgun these days, and it does it a bit cheaper and without the drama of the mag. I guess you could say I like my new Flat Top.

As to DA's, the GP100 always impressed me as being heavier and a bit bulkier than I wanted a .357 to be. I think it might make a VERY nice basis for a .44 Special. And a buddy had a S&W 625 (I think that's the right model #?) .44 Special with 4" barrel. It was kind'a patterned on the Mountain Gun, with light, 4" barrel, and he loved it, and it shot very well. She put a 250 gr. Keith type bullet lengthwise through a nice buck (for here at least). Deer turned to run and was going directly away, and he put one between the hams and it exited his chest, piling him up in the process. Had it hit the hips, spine or hams, it might not have exited the chest, but would almost surely have put it down. Shot was only @ 30 yds. or so. Maybe 35. That's dang fine performance from a reasonably light and short gun that he could put into action very quickly. It was a draw and fire situation since it was about to hit the thick stuff.

I love my SA's, and usually prefer them for field use, but .... a nice .44 DA would likely win my heart, and it'd be really hard to decide which to tote afield. But that's the kind of "dilema" that any gun nut just LOVES to be in! I'm just thankful we have what we have now, with all the anti-gun sentiments that seem to permeate our culture and gov't. But if we don't fight this, and counter it, they'll win, in the end. God help us do all we can to preserve all that our Founders left us! They paid dearly to give us all this. It's a shame so many seem to be timid or averse to the fight for our civil rights, and so prone to "create" rights that are and were never in our Constitution, like "right to be free from fear," etc., etc. But that's politics, and is better dealt with in another section of the board.

The .44 clan surely do have a LOT of reason in their affinity for the Special!

[Bazoo]

Well, I ended up getting a blackhawk in 44 magnum, and got some idea of a rifle in the same. The 44 magnum is quite versatile. And the history of it, goes back far enough to suit me with the 44 russian.

[rintinglen]

It appears that the excellent 44 Special Flattop is not with us any more, at least as a production item. Darn it, I have a hankering for a 5.5 incher to go along with my 4 5/8 inch gun.
I'd jump on the 44 GP 100's while you can get them--they won't be around long. (They'll disappear right about the time I get the money together to buy one.)