Can you download 44 Mag cases to 44 special load data?

[huntersdog]

Instead of buying 44 special brass, can I download 44 Mag to 44 special loads? Or it it be dangerous?


Thanks

[Three44s]

My answer is ...... almost.

I load my .44 mag brass to about 100 fps faster than .44 spec. levels on light loads and find the cartridge to be very flexible at just about any power level right on up to max. by using different powders and primer types. I have not used Trail Boss in the .44 mag but there is no reason it won't work. I have used it in the .480 Ruger and ..... quite frankly found it boring ...... for the most recoil sensitive ...... it would be a god send most likely.

For my light loading, I like Clays. I use a fair amount of Titegroup at a level a little higher. Then I switch to Unique at Skeeter Skelton levels (8.5 gr. with a .250 gr. cast boolit, where as a 44 special load by him was 7.5 gr. and the same weight boolit) and next up the ladder is my all time favorite ..... HS-6. That powder is better for lead than cranking up Unique from the Skeeter loads.

I round the upper end out with 2400 and H110.

I will probably be trying some Lil'Gun in the near future to see if I am missing a good bet there as it should compete head to head at the upper end.

Viva the great .44 mag.

Three 44s

[John Allen]

I just run the lightest load that is listed for the 44 mag. I use unique or bullseye they make for great plinkers with a 250 grain keith. I do have 44 special and do load them but recently have just been loading the mag brass.

[ejcrist]

Instead of buying 44 special brass, can I download 44 Mag to 44 special loads? Or it it be dangerous?


Thanks

Just curious, but why would you want to? I can see having a plinking load that's relatively light or mid-range for the mag, but if you want something approximately equal to 44 Special loads I'd get a 44 Special. A lot of 44 Specials are built on smaller and lighter frames than the mags and thus are more pleasant to tote around. Just my $.02.

Gene

[paralaska]

I do . . . and usually add about 1/2 to 1 grain of powder over the max listed for the .44 special. Use it for beginner .44 mag shooter and when they are comfortable with it . . . Work them up to full loads. . .

[Seancass]

If you want to use special data, just match special overall length by deep seating and you're good to go.

[gunarea]

Hey huntersdog
We can and do load 44 mag at and below 44 special load levels. A favorite of many here shooting Lawnsteel is running right at 800 fps with a 215 gr Keith type semiwad. Using Red dot, Bullseye, AA #2, Promo, Unique, 700X, Win 231 and a smattering of some other fast burn rate powders. With the small amount of propellant it is important to consider the load as position sensitive. There are several positive considerations when choosing to download a big 44 mag handgun. Maybe a thread on that very subject someday.
Roy

[rintinglen]

Yes you can load Mag brass to 44 Special velocities. 6.0 grains of Red Dot or 8.0 grains of Unique will push a 240-250 grain boolit down range quite handily. Those two loads work so well for me in that application that I haven't used any others. Generally, just add one grain to the top listed 44 Special load for a fast to medium pistol powder and you should be good to go for a lighter recoiling cartridge. I use 429-383 boolits for this, to distinguish them from the hunting boolits I cast,usually SWC's or HP's.

[Outpost75]

Instead of buying 44 special brass, can I download 44 Mag to 44 special loads? Or it it be dangerous? Thanks

It works just fine, as long as you are using powders which are suitable at lower pressure and which tolerate the increased free airspace in the case. The fine grained, slower burning spheroidal powders are H110 or 296 should NOT be reduced below published loads in the .44 Magnum. You can reduce Alliant #2400 down to about 15.5-16 grains with a 240-260 grain bullet and that works fine in the .44 Magnum.

For lighter bullets or velocities below 1000 fps in revolvers, it is best to use a faster pistol or shotgun powder such as Unique or Bullseye. I use 7 grains of Bullseye with any cast lead bullet from 200 to 260 grains in my .44 Magnums and it is accurate and shoots well. You can get similar results with 8-9 grains of Unique or 10 grains of Herco.

Any currently published smokeless charge listed for the .44-40 can be loaded in the .44 Magnum case. While the .44 Magnum case has about 8% less capacity than the .44-40, which will raise pressure somewhat, .44-40 pressures are very mild, compared to the .44 Magnum, even the "Group 2" loads listed for the Winchester 92 are only about 25,000 psi. Any pressure increase caused by increased loading density in the smaller .44 Magnum case will be well within safe design limits for the .44 Magnum.

A charge of 15.5 grains of #2400 is a standard pressure Group 1 .44-40 load with a 200 grain bullet. When loaded in .44 Magnum brass is about the minimum charge which will ignite and burn properly and it actualkly performs better in the .44 Magnum with a standard-weight 240-260-grain bulet such as the Saeco #430. It is perfectly OK to use this charge, a bit below published .44 Magnum start levels, with cast bullets up to about 270 grains in the .44 Magnum and it shoots very well.

I gave away all my .44 Special brass to cowboy shooters years ago.

I have found that "medium velocity" loads assembled in .44 Magnum brass are more accurate than attempting to use the shorter .44 Special cases in .44 Magnum chambers.

[Shuz]

Another advantage of using .44 mag cases for light loads as opposed to using .44 Special brass, is you don't get the crud build-up in your cylinder where the .44 Special case ends. Some folks find that they really have to clean their cylinders after shooting .44 Special cases, before they can even chamber .44 mag rounds.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I load light 44 loads in 44 Mag brass using 44-40 load data. The 44-40 case has slightly more case volume than the 44 Mag so the space issue is moot in my opinion. The 44-40 load data is slightly lower than the 44 Special. This gives light recoil, easily managed loads to start someone off with or for Cowboy Action shooting quick recovery and fast follow ups.
I have used a 200g cast RNPF with Clays, Red Dot, Blue dot, Unique, ect. for this application.
So I have been loading 44 Mag brass from 200g light loads at 44-40 levels to hot 300g 44 Mag levels, rifle and pistol, no problem. YMMV.
My justification is no crud ring in chamber, as has been mentioned, functionality thru lever actions, availability of 44 mag vs 44 Spl brass, and comparisons of case volume.
CF

[44man]

Yes and using mag brass will even be a little more accurate.

[gpidaho]

Huntersdog: I shoot a 41mag not a 44 but 357, 41 and 44mag share a common case length. What I do in my 41mag(sure you could do the same in 44) when I want to down load is I cut down some brass that's become worn due to many crimps to what would be 41spl. and get a little better powder burn and a few more uses out of my brass. 38spl,44spl, why not 41spl. Works fine in my BH. GP

[gray wolf]

6 grains or tite group with a 250 grain Keith bullet will make you very happy in the light load department.

[nagantguy]

Seems to me every tid bit of info I could offer on this has already been given but I do agree that for the most part using mag brass in gun so chambered seems to give an accuracy advantage, bullseye and unique are great for light .44 mag/special loads and your pound of powder will last longer down loading like that and it makes for longer, better range sessions and won't scare off new shooters, kids or ladies.

[Char-Gar]

Sure you can, many thousands of us have been doing it for decades. Just use a faster powder like Bulleye, 231, Unique, AA5 or the like. It will take just a smidgen more powder for the same velocity due to the increased air space. It doesn't make a lick of sense to shoot 44 Special cases in 44 Magnum charge holes. With the magnum case, you will get better accuracy and cleaner charge holes.

The 44 Magnum round is marvelous in that it will deliver sterling accuracy all the way up the power chart.

For 44 Special loads I use 6.2 grains of Bulleye under a 240 grain SWC . There is nothing magic or special about 6.2 grains, it is the same charge I used in my 45 Colt loads and I keep a Lyman 55 measure set up to throw that charge.

For moderate 44 Magnum loads at 1,000 to 1,100 fps I use 10 grains of Unique or 11 grains of AA5 under the same bullets.

Elmer Keith liked 5 grains of Bulleye under his 240 grain bullets for his "target" loads.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Yes and using mag brass will even be a little more accurate.

Short, to the point, and accurate information right there.

[jwp475]

Can you download 44 Mag cases to 44 special load data

Thanks


Yes the 44 mag can be loade to 44 special ballistic levels

[hendere]

I've been shooting 8 gr of Unique behind 250 gr Keiths in mag cases for a while now after reading about it here. It's a lot of fun and accurate at the (close) ranges I've been shooting at. Cheap also....

[Salmoneye]

Low level lever gun data:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[NavyVet1959]

If you load it to the same OAL, you can use .44 special load data in the .44 mag.

Although the .44 mag brass is slightly (i.e. 1/8") longer, if you look at the specs, .44 special has a very slightly (0.005") longer OAL than .44 mag. For .44 mag, the max OAL is 1.610" and for the .44 special it is 1.615".

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/44%20SandW%20Special.pdf
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/44%20Remington%20Magnum.pdf

I found that that to be curiously interesting.

As such, it would be possible to load .44 special brass to .44 mag pressures as long as you were only using it in a .44 mag firearm. I suspect that if you were to attempt to do that though, you would want to do it in a firearm where the case was fully supported (e.g. revolver, single-shot, etc). I don't own a .44 special and as such, I do not have any .44 special brass, so I've never tried this though.

[Petrol & Powder]

As has been accurately stated in this thread; yes, you can download 44 mag. I routinely do just that and use about 8.0 grains of unique behind a RCBS 250 SWC. That is my "do it all load" for 44. That load is a little over 44 Special guidelines but perfectly acceptable in good quality 44 Special guns and any 44 magnum.
As covered, if you use 44 Special load data in 44 magnum cases; the additional case volume will translate into lower pressures assuming all other variables are the same.

[krag35]

I have been loading Lyman's 429667 bullet over 7.0 grains of Trail Boss for approx. 850 FPS in R-P magnum cases, Win LP primers, and fired out of a 4" Redhawk. Pretty much duplicates the 44 Special and 45 ACP ballistics. I have no complaints.

[MakeMineA10mm]

If you load it to the same OAL, you can use .44 special load data in the .44 mag.

Although the .44 mag brass is slightly (i.e. 1/8") longer, if you look at the specs, .44 special has a very slightly (0.005") longer OAL than .44 mag. For .44 mag, the max OAL is 1.610" and for the .44 special it is 1.615".

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/44%20SandW%20Special.pdf
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/44%20Remington%20Magnum.pdf

I found that that to be curiously interesting.

As such, it would be possible to load .44 special brass to .44 mag pressures as long as you were only using it in a .44 mag firearm. I suspect that if you were to attempt to do that though, you would want to do it in a firearm where the case was fully supported (e.g. revolver, single-shot, etc). I don't own a .44 special and as such, I do not have any .44 special brass, so I've never tried this though.

There you go thinking again! :)

Navy Vet make a fantastic point.

When Elmer Keith designed his version of the SWC bullet, he put a long driving band ahead of the case mouth and still had room in the COAL area to put a decent-length SWC nose out past it. In BOTH the 357 Magnum AND the 44 Magnum, the gun and cartridge companies extended the case length, but not the cylinder length (or perhaps it's more accurate to say the cylinder window in the frame) so much. This results in the Magnums' cylinders having a shorter throat and losing the ability to have that forward driving band sticking out of the case mouth to engage the throat and center the cartridge in the chamber.

How this relates to the question at hand: Since the COALs are so similar, there is NO NEED to deeper-seat the bullets, as the COALs are nearly identical. What winds up happening when you use Magnum brass, is that you HAVE to seat the bullets deeper, whether you are using light Special loads or the full magnum loads.

That's why several of us said to just load the special loads in the magnum brass and use the magnum COAL...

[catkiller45]

where can I find load data on line without using data found on forums?

[Outpost75]

where can I find load data on line without using data found on forums?

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010)

[oldsalt444]

Instead of buying 44 special brass, can I download 44 Mag to 44 special loads? Or it it be dangerous?


Thanks

Of course you can. The only caveat is when using 296 or H110 powder. Those need to be loaded to 95% case capacity to avoid a rare phenomenon of double ignition which can spike pressures enough to blow up your gun. Stick with Unique, Titegroup, Trail Boss and other fast to medium burn rate powders and you'll be fine.

[onelight]

Alliant also has data online for light 44mag loads.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx

[Mr_Sheesh]

Lots of older load data out there on the web also on https://archive.org/ among other sites. IMO a good set of reloading manuals is a good idea as you can "Sanity Check" loads you find on the web, none of us want a "KABOOM" at ALL.

[smkummer]

I am using 4.5 700X and a 200 lee fp bullet in a 44 mag. case for cowboy action. I drop that to 4.2 in a 44 special case out of colt single actions. Cases of expand enough to not be sooty. Works for me.

[Char-Gar]

Instead of buying 44 special brass, can I download 44 Mag to 44 special loads? Or it it be dangerous?


Thanks

Shure you can. Nothing dangerous about it. It will take a smidge more powder in the magnum case to get the same velocity as the shorter Special case. The 44 Magnum is a wonderful round that will deliver sterling accuracy and up and down the pressure/velocity curve. For 44 Special loads in Magnum cases best stick to faster pistol powders like Bullsye and Unique.

[DiverJay]

If you contact Hodgdon, they have a table of reduced loads for shotgun and rifle data.

[AlaskaMike]

Of course you can. The only caveat is when using 296 or H110 powder. Those need to be loaded to 95% case capacity to avoid a rare phenomenon of double ignition which can spike pressures enough to blow up your gun. Stick with Unique, Titegroup, Trail Boss and other fast to medium burn rate powders and you'll be fine.

While you're absolutely correct on the use of faster powders for .44 special like loads, the risk with downloading H110/W296 is not overpressure spikes--it's squibs/misfires.

[AlaskaMike]

This is a resurrected 4 year old thread, with the new question being where to find online load data from authoritative sources (my paraphrasing the question from Catkiller45).

Onelight recommended Alliant's online data at: http://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx
Hodgdon has theirs at: https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

A lot of people look down their noses at load data posted on forums like Castboolits because anyone can post anything. While that's certainly true, the other thing you need to understand is that the vast majority of members will call out dangerous or otherwise erroneous load data that's been posted. You could think of it as "peer review".

That said, NEVER take any load at face value, whether it comes from a web forum or from a published load manual from one of the big guys. I have noted erroenous load data in EVERY single published reloading manual I have--Lyman, Speer, etc. It's rare, but it happens in all of them. If you find a load that you think you want to try, ALWAYS cross check it with other manuals, and/or online sources as a sanity check.

Just my $.02. Stay safe.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I've been shooting 8 gr of Unique behind 250 gr Keiths in mag cases for a while now after reading about it here. It's a lot of fun and accurate at the (close) ranges I've been shooting at. Cheap also....

I run 7.5 gr under a 250 keiths style and yes lots of fun

[charlie b]

It is interesting that these topics come up from time to time for all three of the 'original' magnums (.357, .41, .44).

I seem to remember in one of the Dirty Harry movies he says he downloads his .44 Mag ammo for target shooting.

I do the same for my .357 magnums, usually use loads around .38spl +P loads.

The one thing to keep in mind is point of impact change. If I load a .357 too light I can't adjust the sights enough to hit the target. And, if you want to accurately hit with magnum loads, such as for self defense or hunting, make sure you check POI with your full up loads.
s

[FISH4BUGS]

Absolutely you can. I load 44 mag with 8.0 (standard load) - 8.5 (a little snappier) gr WW231 over H&G #503 250gr Keith bullet.
Shoot them by the thousands!

[JoeJames]

Just curious, but why would you want to? I can see having a plinking load that's relatively light or mid-range for the mag, but if you want something approximately equal to 44 Special loads I'd get a 44 Special. A lot of 44 Specials are built on smaller and lighter frames than the mags and thus are more pleasant to tote around. Just my $.02.

GeneI had to switch over to light 44 Mag loads after I got my Rossi R92. It would not feed 44 Special; otherwise I'd have stuck to all 44 Special loadings. I did a little testing and came up with .431" Oregon Trail laser cast 240 gr swc's and 7 grains of Unique. In the 5 pound Rossi it averaged out at 1150 fps which was pleasant to shoot, and minimal recoil. And it's quite accurate in the Rossi.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Just curious, but why would you want to? I can see having a plinking load that's relatively light or mid-range for the mag, but if you want something approximately equal to 44 Special loads I'd get a 44 Special. A lot of 44 Specials are built on smaller and lighter frames than the mags and thus are more pleasant to tote around. Just my $.02.

Gene

Well when you buy a 44 magnum when your in your twenty's and now your in you mid fifty's you tend to not push it as much besides
I like my SBH and just like to shoot it

[Hrfunk]

Well when you buy a 44 magnum when your in your twenty's and now your in you mid fifty's you tend to not push it as much besides
I like my SBH and just like to shoot it

Ahh, the wisdom we gain over the years! I like my Model 29 just fine with the Skeeter Skelton .44 Special load in Magnum cases. All the power I need for 90% of my shooting chores without the wear and tear on me or my revolver.

Howard

[Barry54]

My answer is ...... almost.

I load my .44 mag brass to about 100 fps faster than .44 spec. levels on light loads and find the cartridge to be very flexible at just about any power level right on up to max. by using different powders and primer types. I have not used Trail Boss in the .44 mag but there is no reason it won't work. I have used it in the .480 Ruger and ..... quite frankly found it boring ...... for the most recoil sensitive ...... it would be a god send most likely.

For my light loading, I like Clays. I use a fair amount of Titegroup at a level a little higher. Then I switch to Unique at Skeeter Skelton levels (8.5 gr. with a .250 gr. cast boolit, where as a 44 special load by him was 7.5 gr. and the same weight boolit) and next up the ladder is my all time favorite ..... HS-6. That powder is better for lead than cranking up Unique from the Skeeter loads.

I round the upper end out with 2400 and H110.

I will probably be trying some Lil'Gun in the near future to see if I am missing a good bet there as it should compete head to head at the upper end.

Viva the great .44 mag.

Three 44s

@Three44s
I’d like to hear more about your HS-6 loads please. I just cast some 200 grain and have some HS-6 on the shelf.

[Three44s]

Barry54,

While I have loaded jacketed and cast in lighter bullet weights powered by HS6, my favorite combo comes from the Hodgdons #26 manual. The load involves a cast 250 gr boolit with a start charge of 10.0 gr and a max of 12.0 gr.

My boolit of choice is the RCBS 250K with 11.8 gr of HS6 and a magnum large pistol primer. In my case I like the Federal 155.

Later manuals list HS6 at heavier charges and higher pressures. I like the older data because it lists pressures that are right in the compressive strength range that Richard Lee professes that is in sync with WW lead (what I use).

In your case you may get good performance with cast 200 gr boolits or you may not, I do not know. In a gas checked boolit you stand a better chance of succeeding and if you powder coat, also improved odds. The reason is that HS6 is not going to be downloaded below what the Hodgdons data I mentioned and get a very good burn.

Three44s

[Barry54]

Barry54,

While I have loaded jacketed and cast in lighter bullet weights powered by HS6, my favorite combo comes from the Hodgdons #26 manual. The load involves a cast 250 gr boolit with a start charge of 10.0 gr and a max of 12.0 gr.

My boolit of choice is the RCBS 250K with 11.8 gr of HS6 and a magnum large pistol primer. In my case I like the Federal 155.

Later manuals list HS6 at heavier charges and higher pressures. I like the older data because it lists pressures that are right in the compressive strength range that Richard Lee professes that is in sync with WW lead (what I use).

In your case you may get good performance with cast 200 gr boolits or you may not, I do not know. In a gas checked boolit you stand a better chance of succeeding and if you powder coat, also improved odds. The reason is that HS6 is not going to be downloaded below what the Hodgdons data I mentioned and get a very good burn.

Three44s

Interesting you brought up the the compressive strength by Richard Lee. That’s what lead me to looking at 44 special loads in 44 mag brass. Trying to not exceed my soft 25:1 alloy. The Hodgdon data center shows pressure suitable with HS-6 in 44 special. We shall see. TiteGroup wasn’t my first choice, but it could be a contender.

[.429&H110]

I have burned pounds of H110 it's fun

before I found out about SEE (here) I was trying 20 gr H110 240 gr jwords
I had unburned powder left in the brass

Good Lord smiled, the unburned powder did not burn later

I have made up Unique and Clays loads that go <bang>
but what is the point? 22.5gr H110 250 gr Keith boolit at 100 yards goes bang and flies straight
but not hurtful, it's what a 44 mag is supposed to do.

Same 20 gr! H110 320 gr boolit is a handful and has made enough pressure to burn it all. BANG!
That's why there's a book, and this forum.
Search here about SEE, fascinating subject...

[racepres]

While I know SEE, or something similar, happens in Rifle Rounds...I would certainly like a Documented Example with either H110, or W296 in a Handgun, especially with Cast Boolits!! Not Barrel Obstruction ...

[redhawk0]

I recently obtained a 429360 which dropped a SWC at 232Gr. Powder coated and sized to .430" I loaded them up with Unique at 7.0gr (Magnum range is 9.5-12.7gr) I seated them a little long at 1.650". This has become one of my favorite light loads in my Ruger RH. (not Super) 5.5" barrel. I also have the 250gr Keith boolit (it drops at 252gr)...but I load it up at 11gr of Unique....its quite a bit stiffer....I also seat it a bit longer than spec out at 1.680" It's accurate but to be able to shoot longer (due to recoil on these 60+ yo hands)...so I'm preferring the lighter 232gr and that's what I keep going back to.

redhawk

[wilecoyote]

Instead of buying 44 special brass, can I download 44 Mag to 44 special loads? Or it it be dangerous? Thanks

...not only is it not dangerous, but for plinking it is certainly less stressful for revolver and shooter - the point is to use powders that safely allow this_

[Outpost75]

The .44 Magnum and .44-40 have almost identical powder capacity. There is no issue using .44-40 data to assemble reduced power .44 Magnum ammo. A charge of 6-7 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup works well with the .430" diameter Hornady 200-grain XTP. With 240 grain bullets load 16 grains of #2400 or 20 grains of 4227.

[.429&H110]

I have found unburned H110 in sub starting load cases.
Haven't tried that again, was warned here, too soon old too late smart...
If and it's an if, the boolit jumps and the rest of the H110 burns,
you are betting your fingers on a SuperRedHawk.

For all I know, I did this and the Ruger failed to split.
Some of the brass looked overpressure, no unburned powder but was a sub starting load.
Went bang kinda oddly too: fubang, not kabang like H110 barks
Kids, don't try this at home...

[racepres]

The .44 Magnum and .44-40 have almost identical powder capacity. There is no issue using .44-40 data to assemble reduced power .44 Magnum ammo. A charge of 6-7 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup works well with the .430" diameter Hornady 200-grain XTP. With 240 grain bullets load 16 grains of #2400 or 20 grains of 4227.

How Very Sensible!!!

[Ed_Shot]

The NOE 432-226-WC seated to the crimp grove in a 44 Mag case gives you the same "boiler room" as the Lyman 432421 loaded to the crimp grove in a 44 Spl case. For me, the NOE WC over 5 ~ 6 gr. of Promo/Red Dot in a 44 Mag case is super accurate and pleasant to shoot.

[Outpost75]

How Very Sensible!!!

AND these have been pressure tested not to exceed 20,000 psi. While exceeding SAAMI MAP for .44-40 these are well within safe design limits for heat treated post-1920 Colt New Service, Winchester 1892 and modern Italian clones proofed to CIP.

Again. NO ISSUE WHATEVER in any .44 Magnum.

[racepres]

AND these have been pressure tested not to exceed 20,000 psi. While exceeding SAAMI MAP for .44-40 these are well within safe design limits for heat treated post-1920 Colt New Service, Winchester 1892 and modern Italian clones proofed to CIP.

Again. NO ISSUE WHATEVER in any .44 Magnum.

Good On ya for the "pressure tested" I tend to rely on folks like Yourself.. Truly Appreciate that!!!

[Outpost75]

Good On ya for the "pressure tested" I tend to rely on folks like Yourself.. Truly Appreciate that!!!

Thanks to Larry Gibson for pressure testing in his Oehler 43 PBL.

[35 Rem]

8.4 grains of Unique with various 240 to 250 grain cast bullets has been my main 44 Mag plinking load for years. I chose 8.4 because that's the amount a RCBS Little Dandy rotor drops in the general range I was looking for.

[racepres]

8.4 grains of Unique with various 240 to 250 grain cast bullets has been my main 44 Mag plinking load for years. I chose 8.4 because that's the amount a RCBS Little Dandy rotor drops in the general range I was looking for.

LOL, I settled on 8.6, because I have a Measure that Throws that consistently!! Now, with Unique not readily available, I am using grain for Grain BE-86...and Now!!! Sounds like Alliant is not really Reliable.....

[Bazoo]

This has been a very interesting and informative discussion. Thanks all.

Thank's Outpost,

Here is the thread about that https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?406689-Vicarious-44-40-Pressure-Testing , a very interesting read.