Best CB cartridge?

[youngun]

No definitive answer, of course, but I'm wondering what some of you folks consider the "ideal" cartridge for shooting cast boolits. Another way to frame it is, what case will shoot your favorite bullet at the speed you like?
I'm just getting in to casting for rifle, so grain of salt and all, but I like wheelweights for the simplicity, and heat-treated they should handle 2200 fps tops, right? Figuring that, I'm a heavy-for-caliber kinda guy (.300+ SD) and I'm thinking about rebarreling a cheap-o Mauser to 400 Brown-Whelen for a nice 400g thumper. 358 W will also do the job, with a 280g. The 30-30 will almost do it with the 200g, but still gets the nod due to abundance of M336's falling off the shelves.

[Buckshot]

..............Two cartridges come immediately to mind. One is the 30-30 and the other is the 35 Rem. Both will travel as fast with cast as they will with jacketed and do it as accurately as well.

................Buckshot

[AllanD]

If I was gonna go "Cowboy"?

Easy choice is 44mag in an 1894 Marlin and a ruger as a companion revolver.

If I had more money to spend (as in just won the lottery) I'd go searching high and low for a Winchester Marked Browning (Japanese repro) 1892 in 44-40 and a Colt SAA in 44-40.

If you are talking REAL rifle as opposed to pistol caliber "Carbine", then there is really only one choice.... 45-70:)

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[Larry Gibson]

..............Two cartridges come immediately to mind. One is the 30-30 and the other is the 35 Rem. Both will travel as fast with cast as they will with jacketed and do it as accurately as well.

................Buckshot

Factory cartridge wise I agree with Buckshot although I'd throw the .308 Win in there too if the barrel is a 1-12" twist.

Larry Gibson

[405]

Good way to frame question! My own experience is that in cast bullets... the larger the diameter the easier it is to get to shoot accurately. Long, heavy bullets in cast will require faster twist bores and that can become problematic.

My 45-70 Win 86s prefer 300-350 gr cast gas checked at about 18-20 BHN at about 1200-1400 fps over smokeless. The 45-70 & 45-110 Sharps will shoot most anything well especially paper patched pure lead swaged at 400-520 gr over BP at about 1200-1300 fps. As I go down in caliber... accuracy and leading get harder to manage. The same holds when I try to shoot long/heavy-for-caliber cast at higher and higher velocities. Both the 38-40 and 44-40 have been easy to load for and get accuracy even with very soft cast over smokeless. Shooting cast with accuracy and without leading in a 25-20 is beyond my patience.

So a good place to start would be... maybe a 35 cal with medium case capacity. Have had good luck with all the 35s I've tried.

[HORNET]

Well, youngun, since you mention M336's, you could have one rebored to .35/.30-30. That'll let you take those 200 grainers up around 2000+ with LOTS of oomph (on both ends). Then you could modify the follower to accept longer rounds and go to the 250 grain Saeco or the 280 Lyman (scarce critters).
If you want something friskier, a .375 Win might give you something that'll handle even heavier boolits. Or you could barrel that 98 Mouser to .375/.308. Saw one of those 20+ years ago along with targets showing some cast groups that would match the FLGC ones and either set was VERY good with enought energy to handle about anything on this continent. Besides, .375 gas checks and molds are easier to find than the .40/.41 cal.

[youngun]

Long, heavy bullets in cast will require faster twist bores and that can become problematic. [...]
So a good place to start would be... maybe a 35 cal with medium case capacity. Have had good luck with all the 35s I've tried.

I've been thinking about that 35x57 'cat. The case should have enough capacity to shoot 280's well over 2000.
The selection of heavy .378's is pretty impressive though.
What's the problem with faster twist? More leading? Or is it just that 35's don't come in 1:12 twist, for instance?
As I understand it (which is not very well) the more bearing surface and faster the bullet, the harder the alloy needed to get good obturation without deformation. But does a long bullet necessarily need a faster twist, or is it just that long bullets generally have lots of bearing surface? That is to ask, would a bore-rider act more like a lighter bullet - need less twist than a regular RNFP?
As for oomph on both ends, while far from immune I am pretty desensitized to heavy recoil, so we won't worry about that part of it.

[405]

Some things to consider with cast AND long heavies at higher velocities.... at least as far as I understand them.... or not! :confused:

To get to the velocities you're talking about will require lots of pressure. It's not hard to get a cast bullet to high velocities... it can be very difficult to get the high velocity AND good accuracy.

All this may require very hard cast and maybe gas check. That's do-able. But cast bullets even the very hard ones may require special design so they don't collapse unevenly.... over-obturate, if you will. I think "bore riders" while not defying the laws of physics as far as required RPMs for stabilization... do help, if obturated, in keeping their front portions from completely collapsing uevenly. But they may not be a full substitute as far as "taking" the lands for "spinning" the bullet. A "bore rider" of comparable length to a bullet of conventional design will require about the same twist bore (RPMs) to stabilize.

Additionally, since long bullets require more RPMs to stabilize.... they require more bore twist..... that in turn increases the already stressed relationship between the bullet and the lands.... as in rifling "smear", "skip" or "strip" at least until the bullet gets up to "speed" as it accelerates down the bore. The longer the bullet per diameter the heavier the bullet so the more inertia the bullet has.... inertia works both ways.... in force required to get it going AND in force required to stop it. This becomes more of a problem as muzzle velocities are increased... they all start at zero velocity both in forward motion and spin rate and have to accelerate to the desired muzzle velocity and spin rate. Sometimes all this is a "catch 22" type of thing. Sorry about the windy post...

[ra_balke]

32 Winchester Special.

Cause it has a 16 in twist. And a long slow twist in a cast bullet ctg is really gentil on the bullet.
Also, the 32 has all the power a feller really ever needs.

I read about a man who was a market hunter around the turn of the last century, and he said that if he did not get 18 elk fromn a box of 32 winchester shells, he felt he was failing himself.

But, that was back when elk had thinner skins. Now days you need at least a 300 short mag, and some of those hollowpoint solid copper bullets,, or you are going to be laughed out of elk camp.

[softpoint]

Don't know about"best", but I have 2 .358 winchesters, 2.308s and a couple of .45/70's , a.444 that are my favorite cast bullet rifles. .44 mag is the caliber that sees the most lead around here.......

[AllanD]

Another good cartridge for cast bullets is the 35Rem.

Not enough powder space to wind up requiring fillers.

Common bore diameter, so gas checks will be available in 358 long after everything else ceases to be, good selection of moulds, etc...

Oh, and relatively slow twist the same 1:16" as the 32Spl.

BTW, incase nobody figuired it out I thought I was still posting on the marlin owners forum when I posted above:)



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[kodiak1]

I'd go with buckshot on that 30-30, and 405 on the 45-70. I have had good luck with the 38-55 also and the 45-100 Sharps and the 50-90 Sharps.
Ken.

[black44hawk]

Can't go wrong with the classic combo: 45-70 for heavyweights and 30-30 for everything else. What really floats my boat is the 44mag. My super blackhawk (go figure) is my favorite weapon and it shoots plain base bullets from 700fps to 1400fps very well.