Price For Machine Time For Special Projects

[deltaenterprizes]

What do you all expect to pay for machine time for special projects?

[country gent]

Most shops will give a "bid" on work and can hit it pretty close to the estimate. There is alot that affects machining costs, Material it is made from some materials are easier to machie than others and some require carbide or special cutters. Tolerences on a part can really jump costs also, each 0 behind the decimil raises cost do to added dificulty, +/- .1 is much easier and cheaper than +/- .0001 is. complex forms or radiouses raise costs also. Alot depends on the part or actual job being done and what is required. A good 3 or 4 view drawing with dimensions and realistic tolerences helps alot.

[deltaenterprizes]

I know that Country, I have worked in machine shops.
i am inquiring about what members expect to pay when they inquire about getting parts made.
A member asked about a swaging die and I think he expected to pay under $100

[btroj]

The issue here isn't just price per hour but rather the number of hours required. For under 100 bucks it couldn't take mch over an hour in shop time. No way is that happening for a swage die.

For a swage die, depending on what was involved, I would expect prices in the 500 plus range.

Design, machine time, materials, heat treating, and too.ong all cost money. Lots of money.

I understand this all much better now that I own a lathe. Much, much better.

[country gent]

With experience you know that Delta, alot dont have any experience what it takes to take a piece of bar stock or rough casting and turn it into something useable. Or what it takes to build a part up and then recatch all the surfaces and rework it back to good. Some are also looking for the best deal not understanding it all. I spent my carreer in shops from a small job shop ( started there at age 15) to the food industry and auto industry as a tool and die maker, mostly tools. Although I did build some progressive dies.

[shooter93]

Around here you'd not pay less than 50 bucks an hour for jobs that are going to be done on a time basis with an estimate of the hours needed. Customers have a real tendency to forget that the owner isn't being paid 50-60 bucks an hour for his skill.....it's all those nasty little things like machines, tooling, heat, lights, insurances etc. etc. etc.

[Boolit_Head]

Well here is an exercise for you machinists types.

I've run into a problem with 45 acp cases getting dented just enough that they go into the sizer die but retain enough of a indented lip that they snag and fold in the expander die. Mostly this happens because the dies dont have a ball on the decapping stem.Since these are easy to spot before I size them I was thinking of something like a expander ball on a stem I could screw into a single stage press and run into the case mount to open it back up to reasonable dimensions before going into the sizer die. I suspect this could be made in one piece on a lathe once the dimensions and thread sizes and all were worked out. Would something like that be a hours worth of work and or what would that run? What about material costs if the ball would need to be made of carbide?

Maybe explaining this simpler project would shed light on the process?

[country gent]

The reason for this in straight walled crtridges is an expander ball size will be dependent on brass thickness also. On bottle necked rifle cartridges the neck is in the body area when the ball pulls thru. A stem can be made for damaged case mouths easy enough, with a piece of 7/8" 4140 turn the stem and ball dia back to length required and face square on end and face of stem body junction. chamfer edges. set compound to 30* from parallelfor expander portion and 45* for edge of body. thread body to 14 tpi for needed length. polish expander to size and finish. chamfer back edge of body and part off. All in all this part on a manual machine will be 1- 1 1/2 hours to make if you dont want it hardened.

[Buck Neck It]

I would not touch that project unless I wanted to bite myself in the butt.

[Boolit_Head]

Why not?

[Buck Neck It]

Well, my butt does not taste very good. I have bitten it many times. I have worked for a week to save 50 bucks.

[Boolit_Head]

Well seriously, what about that project seems distasteful?

[Buck Neck It]

Producing perfectly machined, perfectly heat treated parts, one off, for $100.

[joatmon]

Boolit Head unless I'm missing something this sounds like a job for a M-die?
Aaron

[2Tite]

Boolit Head, First of all , why carbide it's expensive and not really needed. If this is truly an issue and not merely and example, I'll help. I've solved the same issue for myself, cheap too. PM me if you'd like.

[Boolit_Head]

Boolit Head unless I'm missing something this sounds like a job for a M-die?
Aaron

I am not sure a M die would work on something like this. Think case mouth dented in about 1/3 in a small section.

[SOFMatchstaff]

This has strayed a bit, last first, have your extractor and ejector tuned and the case mouth dents will be eliminated, or use a hand held tool like a 50BMG dummy, like I do, to iron out the majority of the deformity on the occasional range mongrel that shows up during case inspection. Even the best equipment eats a case now and again.

Machine Time costs are either factored into the job or posted in the shops and can be scary on up to jaw dropping. that doesnt mean un warranted, think CNC 5 axis machines plus tooling, up through laser and plasma equipment, and the overhead gets monumental. I have seen shops that most folks do not believe exist, the average gunsmith doesnt have anything close to that kind of investment in machinery or std tooling. Granted, there is a batch of job specific tooling that we have that your commercial shops dont bother with, and it is expensive and has a lifespan measured in uses, some lasts forever. There is a difference in repair jobs and pure fabrication jobs, or "special projects"

I bought my tools to fill a need or solve a problem, and they are available when I need them. My rates vary with the job and run from " bring it over" to "you cant afford it" Attitude(pest factor) enters into it also, some folks just can just give you a rash thinkin about em.

begining to ramble, time for more coffee and order up some reamers......

[SlippShodd]

...I was thinking of something like a expander ball on a stem I could screw into a single stage press and run into the case mount to open it back up to reasonable dimensions before going into the sizer die...

The "cheat" here is to use an old expander die. Chuck up the insert, turn off the case belling form to about .450" for the length of the shank, then taper the end to be a bit pointy so it slides in the dented case. This is not an original idea... I saw an example in an article by Dean Grennell that he wrote in the '70s, so I patterned mine after his, sorta. Starting with a die makes it an easy machining project, and aside from the cost of the die, relatively inexpensive. Starting with barstock or 7/8-14 rod... more time, and thus cost, than would be reasonable to pay.

mike
----> or you can just shove a big Phillips screwdriver in the case and reef the dent open...

[reed1911]

To the OP, I charge between 90-110 per hour for special projects, 2 hour minimum unless it is something I have already been set up for. Design is generally 45-55 per hour, heat treat is by the batch (we send off 50lbs at a time, not one of), polishing, I quote per the job what I think it will take.

There are some die makers that will make dies for 100.00 to 125.00 per, there is a gent here on the board that does them.

[John Taylor]

Machine shop time here is $100 per hour. It may be going up so I can stay up with the economy.

[deltaenterprizes]

A 45 ACP FMJ will own the mouth of a dented cases or a SER of needle nosed pliers

[customcutter]

Delta, I've been collecting machining equipment for several years and one day hope to be able to use it. I'm learning most of my machining ability on youtube. I have a 14X40 lathe, a 6X26 mill, and a 9X42 mill, 6X18 surface grinder, and several belt grinders. I started when I made custom knives, most makers are doing it as a hobby and maybe making $5/hr for their time. I hope to retire and do a little gunsmithing, knifemaking, machining, etc one day. I couldn't "justify" buying a set of .224 dies for swaging for $1000, so I started trying to machine my own a couple of years ago. I've spent half of that in materials and tooling and hundreds of hours designing, machining, failing, starting over, etc. But the experience I've learned is priceless compared to the cost involved. Most people don't have a clue about the cost or time involved.

My business is lawncare and I charge $50/hr, most people don't understand the cost involved in that business either. I just quote the job, and learned a long time ago that I can't work for free. They either want my services or don't, sometimes you can educate the consumer, sometimes you can't. Good luck.

[ammohead]

Delta,

If you already own a M die body. PM me I will help you out. No need for carbide or a 5 axis cnc machine. You want simple, I got simple.

[Love Life]

I expect to pay no more than $1.50 per hour, and I expect the materials and shipping to be covered by the shop.