Pattern 1858 Enfield Paper Cartridge

[heelerau]

126684Gentlemen,
just finished rolling a few more paper cartridges the other day, as it was about 112"F in the water bag, nothing better to do. I am currently rolling using the late pattern which has the short outer wrapper, conserving the Beinfang 360 linen rag paper. These are the best made yet, I waxed the waxed thread to make it choke the end off at the base of the bullet more neatly and seems to have worked. I am using two types of Pritchet bullet, one in .554 diameter, 530 grains, and another shorter version, but at .568 diameter. Both seem to give me 8 ring groups using a 50 yd pistol target off the bench. I am using 2 1/2 drams of Goex FFg. These groups were shot using the Parker Hale 2 band Navy rifle with 1/48 twist. I can shoot 9 -10 ring group using the Trevor Bugg Minnie. I am still tweaking these cartridges, with a thought to using them for hunting of pig and the like. I may have the .568 diameter bullet lengthened to 1.09 and see how that goes. I am investigating having cutting dies made up for the paper components with a view to upping the quantity that can be manufactured. Be nice to make a machine that you fed paper and bullets into and had cartridges ready to charge and grease come out the other end .

[Hickok]

Very authentic looking cartridges. I have a PH 2 band, made in England, outstanding rifle. Does yours have the 5 groove rifling as mine does?

I make my cartridges in the 1861 pattern of the Federal and Confederate Armorys using a Burton or Harpers Ferry type Mine ball.

Prichett type molds for paper patching are difficult to find here.

[heelerau]

Mate, both of mine have 5 groove rifling, if you want a pritchet bullet mould pm me I can put you onto a chap in South Australia that makes a nice one.

Cheers

Heelerau
ps I guess the Bugg Minnie is actually a variation of the Burton bullet.

[fouronesix]

heelerau,
Have seen some of your info on the Britishmilitaria forums. Good stuff over on that site. Very little interest in such around my area but I've been shooting muskets and rifle muskets for a long time. Have looked at photos of the Bugg Minié design and it looks good- very similar to original styles from the Civil War era here.

What weight and diameter is the standard Bugg Minié for the .577 rifle muskets?
What group sizes are you getting using the Bugg Minié out of your PH P58? Enfield bench rested at 50 yards? And, how are the shooters doing with that same Minié out of their "BSAT" PH P53s with the slower twist?
Thanks

[heelerau]

Mate,
cannot give you exact weight as my scales go not further than 500 grains. I need to upgrade as they are 35 yrs old, and it would be nice to know actual weights of some of my minnies'. Diameter comes in at .579 after pushing through my lube size die, just to get rid of excess lube. Off the bench 2 to 2 1/2 inch group at 50 yards, 4inches at 100 off the bench. That is shooting my Pat 58 Parker Hale Naval rifle. I cannot really speak for the three band rifles, although my original 3rd model Contract musket shoots quite well with this bullet from memory, but cannot remember the last group I shot with it, I do remember being quite surprised as how well it shot, as I had lapped the bore many years earlier, and not used it since.. A good excuse now to shoot one and see. Quite a few of the Adelaide Black Powder club blokes use these moulds, so I could enquire the results from the PH 3 handers. I have been a bit disappointed with the groups I have shot with the Pritchet bullets so far, and will get another mould made up in .568 with the longer projectile, which will suit the Pat 58 better, I was still figuring things out and bumbling along as usual and sent the wrong length.

Cheers

Heelerau

[fouronesix]

heelerau,
Thanks for the response. The history of the various arms and ammo of that era is what interests me and one of the reasons I enjoy shooting them. Gives a unique insight that goes beyond the written history.

I have no experience with the Pritchett. The only example I have is an unfired original "pick up". The design is similar to that used in the post-percussion big single shot cartridge era here with the paper patch BP types. It does have a very thick skirt so is a puzzle to me in comparison to the Miniés. A pure guess… but I'd think, for best accuracy, the thick skirted Pritchett would need to be pretty close to bore diameter and would require a fairly heavy charge to fully obturate the base and shank to fully engage the rifling?? Thinking out loud here with zero experience :)

The only "rifle" (two band) length .577/.58 rifle muskets I have are an original Remington Zouave and a replica Zoli Zouave. I shoot the Zoli most for obvious reasons. I have an original P53 BSAT Tower carbine and an original P53 LA Co "militia" 3 band. Both are slow twist. Because of collector value and wear and tear, I only shoot them sparingly and carefully. The little carbine really surprised me about how accurate it is with a Minié- consistently shooting about an inch at 50 yards.

[ResearchPress]

If you're interested in ammunition, I have an article on Enfield Paper Cartridges (http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/british/enfield/107-papercartridge) on my web site.

David

[fouronesix]

:) Thanks. I've read through that material before. Interesting that in 1859 there was disagreement about the attributes of the various designs and exactly how they functioned, ballistically.

It's been my understanding that the reason for the wood plug was to assist in expansion, upon powder ignition and during maximum period of acceleration, of the skirt and side walls of the hollow base bullet… like the Pritchett.

One of these days, if I get really motivated ?, I may get a Pritchett mold and do some testing to see if that style has any accuracy advantage or other merit over the basic, more common Minié. While I've read about loading/shooting the Pritchett and I have a lot of experience shooting the Minié, I haven't seen a fair, reasonably scientific or thorough head to head accuracy test of one vs the other. I assume those tests have been done?

[heelerau]

I did shoot both minnie' and pritchet bullets at 50 yes off the bench on one occasion, 2 inch group with the Bugg minnie off the bench, 8 inch group with the pritchet at the same range off the bench. It does lead me to suspect the close fitted minnie' is the better projectile, but the Pritchet is faster loading, and fine for combat. As I have said, some more tweaking to see if I can get tighter groups with the Pritchet. Then I will test both over longer ranges.

[fouronesix]

heelerau,
Your paper cartridges look excellent and great for fast loading and some battle re-enactment.

Keep us posted on the progress with the Pritchett. I've thought about the Pritchett style in the past but never "pulled the trigger" on going down that road of testing. Also had a thought about the wood base plug commonly used with them. If, and it may be a big if, a style of wood golf tee could be used for the base plug. There are all varieties of sizes and profiles so maybe find a slip fit match for the base cavity? Then a simple trim to length (depth)? Just thinking of saving some time and effort in having to turn each one to fit. Plus they come in quantity for little $.
That's what I get for thinking :)

[fgd135]

heelerau,
Your paper cartridges look excellent and great for fast loading and some battle re-enactment.

Keep us posted on the progress with the Pritchett. I've thought about the Pritchett style in the past but never "pulled the trigger" on going down that road of testing. Also had a thought about the wood base plug commonly used with them. If, and it may be a big if, a style of wood golf tee could be used for the base plug. There are all varieties of sizes and profiles so maybe find a slip fit match for the base cavity? Then a simple trim to length (depth)? Just thinking of saving some time and effort in having to turn each one to fit. Plus they come in quantity for little $.
That's what I get for thinking :)

Well, my 2 cents; I already have a few Lyman minié moulds, and couldn't see spending the big $$ on a custom Pritchett mould, so instead I had a .568" push thru sizer made by the Lee custom shop, was about $30 iirc. I resize un-lubricated Lyman miniés thru it, and then make up Pritchett-style cartridges, and lube using those excellent instructions and patterns on David's site. Poor man's Pritchetts, to be sure, but the accuracy is excellent, and I can use different wt miniés as well. In fact, for me, I find not only is the accuracy better than shooting the Burton miniés in the regular way, i.e., sized to .575" or .576", etc., lubed and not patched, also the rifles are far easier to load and stay cleaner overall.
This shoots well in my PH 3 band Enfield, a newer Pedersoli 3 band Enfield, and a '61 PH
Musketoon.

[heelerau]

fgd135, what paper are you making your cartridges from? what size groups are you getting? A good idea resizing a minnie, I never really thought of doing that. The bloke who makes my moulds charges about $130 Aust.

[fouronesix]

Here's a link to another forum with 2 videos of loading and firing an Enfield with the snap off, 2 pc paper cartridge ammo. Very well done video.
http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php/6724-Pritchett-bullet-mould/page2

[fgd135]

I use 9# onion skin/airmail paper (34g/m), 25% cotton, that mikes to .002" thick for the outer layer of my faux-Pritchett cartridge. It brings the bullet up to .576", which is the diameter I've found to most accurate for "nekkid" minies fired in my rifles. I suppose you could size down even further and use a thicker paper, but I think you would have to use a thicker-skirted minie to prevent damaging the skirt when sizing. There are certainly those types of off-the-shelf minie moulds available that might work, cheers!