9mm chambering issues

[petroid]

I recently got a 9mm conversion barrel for my 40cal XD. It seems to have a really tight chamber as certain headstamps of brass won't chamber even with a heavy crimp and using Lee FCD. S&B, PPU, Tula, WCC, Fiocchi to name a few. I can chamber an empty case without an issue but as soon as I seat a boolit, it's a no-go. If I crimp them severely enough to reduce the case mouth to SAAMI spec, it squeezes the boolit so hard that it swells ahead of the case and won't chamber. These cases seem to have thicker brass, at least at the case mouth. I have a couple other 9mms that will feed these cases just fine. Looser chambers, I guess. I suppose I'll just have to start sorting my brass for this gun, or get a chamber reamer to open it up a bit. It's not too big a deal, really. I've just been loading as I normally do, and picking out all the Federal, Winchester, Remington, and Blazer cased rounds and setting them aside so that I know they will work in this gun. Anyone else experience this?

[leadhead]

Have you tried seating the bullet deeper?
Denny

[petroid]

It's not a seating depth issue. There is room to seat out farther with some cases but certain ones just won't work. This happens with a lee 356-120-tc at 1.110" and lyman 356637 at 1.060". In four other guns this combo is good to go but with certain types of brass I can't make it work in this one barrel. If I did seat deeper it might work but I would lose precious powder room and raise pressures which I don't really want to do

[leadhead]

I understand....................
Denny

[rsrocket1]

Did you color the entire cartridge and boolit with a magic marker to be sure you know where the hangup was?

[oger]

9mm brass can be all over the place. I have a Dan Wesson PM-9 that has the same problem you have. If you are using cast bullets make sure you are sizing to .356 and no bigger.

[petroid]

Did you color the entire cartridge and boolit with a magic marker to be sure you know where the hangup was?

I did not do that but after measuring the OD of the case at the mouth, it required .379" (basically SAAMI max) to fit with domestic brass. When I used foreign or NATO spec brass, even at .379 it wouldn't fit. If i tried to push the round into the chamber, the boolit would hit the chamber edge and leave a ring around the boolit where it hit. Then I started measuring the boolits. On the domestic brass rounds, the boolit still measured .356" where it entered the case. On the foreign/NATO brass, the boolit had swelled up in some cases to .360" from squeezing the brass during crimping. I can only assume its because of thicker brass and it won't work in this barrel without getting it reamed out. I might be able to lap it out a bit but not real sure how to go about it.

[tazman]

If you don't get the chamber right you can ruin the pistol or make it so the cases won't extract.
As I see it you have 3 choices.
1 keep sorting the brass as you are now.
2 Have the barrel chamber reamed by a gunsmith
3 get a new barrel in the hope the next one will be better.
Personally, I would choose the number 2 option.That way no matter what ammo you were using, the gun would function.

[petroid]

That way no matter what ammo you were using, the gun would function.

Honestly I haven't fired a single factory round thru this barrel. I haven't even checked to see if they fit. The only factory ammo I have is some 124gr XTPs. I suppose I should at least check to see if they will chamber at least, lol. Thanks a lot guys

[Screwbolts]

There is currently a 9mm chamber reamer on evil bay right now I think.

The 9mm is gone, there is a 45 ACP still, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pacific-Tool-Gauge-45-ACP-Chambering-Finish-Reamer-chamber-/161546485170?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259cebbdb2

Ken

[tomme boy]

What brand is the barrel? Check to see if you can send it back to have them ream it.

[trapper9260]

I say have a gunsmith do the job near you and that way if soemothing else need to be done they will know what to do after.

[rsrocket1]

My M&P 9mm barrel has a very tight chamber and narrow throat. With the Lee 356-120-TC, I have to size the boolits to .356" with the Lee push through sizer if I want any part of the vertical portion of the boolit to sit above the case mouth. Before getting the sizer, I was able to use these boolits, but I had to seat them so the edge of the cone met the case mouth and then crimp the rim to bring it back to vertical. I also used a 38 S&W expander plug in the 9mm powder through expander die. This is sort of like a poor man's Lyman "M" die, it expands the case deeper than the 9mm plug without putting excessive flare on the mouth. I only expand about half the length of the intended boolit seat depth to let the case tension hold the bottom part of the boolit more firmly. I also don't use the FCD, I bought the Lee taper crimp die (https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger-90780.html) without the sizing ring and lower it just enough to close the bell.

Yes, 9mm can be a finicky round to load cast boolits in. The cartridge is tapered, brass dimensions are all over the the place and various gun manufacturers barrel dimensions are all over the place from really tight to very loose. You just have to know what your barrel wants and tailor the cartridge to work with it.

[Cherokee]

I found that I have to seat the Lee 120 TC to 1.055" to function in my 9's. They have been fawless in my XDM's and Briley Match barrel 1911 since going to 1.055", that's about 20k rounds ago. You might try that first and see how oit works, next would be opening the chamber/throating the barrel.

[petroid]

I'm going do do a pound cast of the chamber and hopefully that will help me figure some things out. There may just be a tight spot that needs lapped out or something else that would be an easy fix. Then I can figure out where to go next.

[websterz]

9mm brass can be all over the place...If you are using cast bullets make sure you are sizing to .451 and no bigger.

Those are for sure not going to fit! LOL

[GabbyM]

How deep are the bullets seating?
There is quite a bit of brass out there that will not accept a 147gr FP cast bullet. Cases taper into thick sidewall making the deep seating 147 grain bullets run out of room. Usually the bullet just gets swaged down but hard bullets may be bulging the case. To aggravate this. Most 9mm expander plugs don't expand to a deep enough depth to fit the 147gr bullets.

[petroid]

What brand is the barrel? Check to see if you can send it back to have them ream it.

it is an EFK Firedragon threaded 9mm conversion barrel for my subcompact XD40. My worry is that if I send it back they will say it is SAAMI spec (which it may be) and that they don't warranty it for reloads/cast boolits. Taking it to a gunsmith for reaming may also void the warranty. I'll have to check on this.

[rsrocket1]

Like Cherokee, I think I was seating way down to 1.050" or 1.00" before I started sizing all my boolits. I can now seat to 1.13" and still chamber the rounds. This gives me a little more safety margin when it comes to max pressures.

I'm almost certain that reaming will void the warranty but how much did that barrel cost? If that fixes your problems, it is well worth it.

It took an evening's worth of expanding cases/seating/chambering/adjusting seat depths and die stations to get the right fit for me as well as pulling boolits to ensure they weren't swaged down smaller than groove depth for my barrel. Fortunately for us casters, we can simply remelt the boolits and not waste anything :). On a progressive press, make sure you adjust your dies with cartridges in every station because the press may change settings from a single cartridge.

I still plunk test every round in the barrel just to be sure. It takes an extra 2 seconds but it is worth it not to have hang ups at the range.

[bedbugbilly]

I recently ran into the same sort of problem. All I use is "range brass". I bought a batch from a fellow on here and it had some of the "difficult" head stamps mixed in that you mentioned. Previous to that, I've always used mixed commercial with no problems - and I use the Lee 356-120 TC as well. I cast from "range lead" and was sizing them .357 (they fall at .358 usually) and never had a problem chambering in my Ruger SR9.

Well, I changed things up. I wanted to try the bolts at .358 (as dropped) and in the Winchester, Federal, etc. casings, it worked fine. I load on a 4 hole Lee turret (Lee 4 die set) and when one is done, I slide it in to a cartridge gauge to check it and then in a box. I hadn't really paid attention to the head stamps and every once a while, I had one that was tight in the cartridge gauge - enough it would "pass". I continued to load some more and if it didn't "pass" - I set it aside and after I had a half dozen, I looked at the head stamps. Yep - the same ones you are complaining about.

I tried them in my barrel - too tight. I decided to play a little so I took the ones that didn't "pass" and increased the crimp. That helped but they were still tight even though I could push them in and they would set flush in the gauge. Rather than take a chance on them, I tossed them in the "to pull" can.

In my case, the SR9 is the only 9mm I have. This count on this batch of brass was about 1,500 casings so I have decided that on a rainy day next summer, I'll sort the "problem head stamps" out and either put them in the re-cycle can - of if there is a larger quantity of them, I'll probably post them on this site if someone can use them.

In my case, I don't shoot enough 9mm for it to be a problem (I mainly shoot 38s) - but I can certainly see how frustrating it would be for someone who shoots a lot of 9mm.

I was curious as well on the "problem children" as once I started taking a closer look at them, I could tell the thickness was heavier - all confirmed when compared to the Winchester, Federal, etc. on a digital scale.

[rsrocket1]

On the domestic brass rounds, the boolit still measured .356" where it entered the case. On the foreign/NATO brass, the boolit had swelled up in some cases to .360" from squeezing the brass during crimping.

I re-read this part and I don't think you are swelling the boolits on the crimp. You may be mashing the boolits on the seating stage. You can easily test this out by preparing a case as you usually do, but don't prime or charge the case, jus flare it as you have in the past, seat a bullet and don't crimp. Measure the lead just above the rim or pull the bullet with a kinetic puller and measure the bullet. If you are causing the bulge on seating, you might do better with a Lyman "M" die or the 38 S&W stem (http://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html) in the PTX die. They are only $3. You could use a 38/357 PTX stem if you have a Lee set for that caliber, but the stem is too short and you will need to make a spacer from a piece of dowel or PVC pipe to make up the space. You want the inside of the case to be no more than 2-3 mils smaller than the boolit to create enough tension to hold the bullet in but not too tight to swage the bullet down or cause the bullet to deform when being seated.

[DR Owl Creek]

I have a couple of questions:

Are you seating AND crimping in the same operation, at the same time? Seating and crimping in two separate steps could solve your problem.

Have you tried using a taper crimp die instead of the Lee FCD? Again do this in a separate step AFTER seating the bullet.

Dave

[petroid]

I re-read this part and I don't think you are swelling the boolits on the crimp. You may be mashing the boolits on the seating stage. You can easily test this out by preparing a case as you usually do, but don't prime or charge the case, jus flare it as you have in the past, seat a bullet and don't crimp. Measure the lead just above the rim or pull the bullet with a kinetic puller and measure the bullet. If you are causing the bulge on seating, you might do better with a Lyman "M" die or the 38 S&W stem (http://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html) in the PTX die. They are only $3. You could use a 38/357 PTX stem if you have a Lee set for that caliber, but the stem is too short and you will need to make a spacer from a piece of dowel or PVC pipe to make up the space. You want the inside of the case to be no more than 2-3 mils smaller than the boolit to create enough tension to hold the bullet in but not too tight to swage the bullet down or cause the bullet to deform when being seated.

This may be happening. I didn't think of that. The measurements were taken after crimping so I don't know if it may be that there is "mashing" of the boolits occurring. I will have to check this out. I have been thinking about the 38 s&w expander, too. It may help. Thanks for the advice.

[petroid]

Got the 38s&w expander plug ordered. That makes the most sense. I have pulled bullets to check that they were still .356" but probably only from domestic cases. I will seat some dummies in the problem cases and see how they do.

[country gent]

Several thing to try before modifing a barrel here. First size a batch of cases and see if they chamber as sized. Remove the barrel and make sure the cases drop in free and easily. Measure cast bullets and case necks to see what the loaded round dia should be, Neck wall thickness + neck wall thickness + bullet dia = loaded round dia . Seat a bullet and check actuall loaded round dia. A to big bullet can swell cases to cause a chambering issue. Check for burrs bell not being ironed out bulges in body case head area. Dented pulled rims can cause issues also.

[tazman]

This may be happening. I didn't think of that. The measurements were taken after crimping so I don't know if it may be that there is "mashing" of the boolits occurring. I will have to check this out. I have been thinking about the 38 s&w expander, too. It may help. Thanks for the advice.

I had that happen with one batch of soft lead(8-10bhn)boolits I loaded for my 9mm. That is one of the reasons I use harder/water quenched boolits.

[petroid]

Dropped a 124gr Hornady XTP factory round in the chamber and it plunked right in. It is a TC design. Didn't have a caliper to measure the round, but at least I know that factory ammo "should" chamber reliably so its back to the lab to sort out this mystery. Thanks for all the advice and I'll get back to you with the results. Might be a while as I'm waiting for parts and will be out of town next week.

[dudel]

If the barrel fails with factory ammo, then the vendor should correct the problem. If it works with factory ammo, you have your answer (your rounds are out of spec). Time to dig out the calipers.

In the Glock world, Lone Wolf makes aftermarket barrels. Their chambers are a bit tighter than Glock chambers (and they make that clear in their ad). Early on, they would cut the chamber to fit your ammo at no additional cost (you had to send them a couple of rounds). Now I believe that there is a nominal fee for this service if the buyer feels they need it.

I think most aftermarket barrel makers understand that the buyers will be using reloads (Lone Wolfe, Barstow and KKK do). If the company you're dealing with doesn't offer the rechambering service, I'd return the barrel unaltered and tell them you want a refund because the product doesn't meet your needs. You did put it on a CC right?

[oger]

I saw the .451size after it had been up awhile (senior moment). Have you measured the base of the offending brass? The ones I have are as much as .005 bigger than the ones that chamber correctly.