BIG throat 44

[bugkiller]

Sorry, not talking about porn movies here. :p

Recently acquired a Model 629. My first big bore. (Again, see first line). Shot a few factory fmj through it with my usual degree of inaccuracy.

While waiting on my pistol to arrive, I went ahead and ordered some cast bullets. Loaded up a few developmental loads in 44 spl. and grouping went way south. Couldn't hold a 9" group. [smilie=b: Just terrible. Used MBC .430 12 BHN 240gr RNFP, shooting cowboy velocities.

Just checked the cylinder throat. I can ease a .431 plug gauge in. .432 is a little too big. I'm thinking this is contributing to my problem.

I have cast some air dropped WW in a Lyman FN 429667. This mold has been machined to remove the bevel base, so they drop at about 251 gr, .433--.434.

I have a Lyman 450 lubrisizer. I don't see .432 sizing dies listed. So now what? Tumble lube and shoot them as they drop? Or should I get into powder coating? I really wasn't wanting to go down that road yet.

I'm new to casting, so respond slowly in short words. :smile:

[Outpost75]

Your cylinder throats seem "normal" in an S&W. My Ruger throats are .432". I use .431 bullets but don't run them hards, only air colled wheelweights. If your mold drops .433-434 I would size them. A .432 sizer isn't "standard," but there are people who hone sizer dies out reasonably. I had Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com do several for me.

[claude]

You might try p-a-n l-u-b-i-n-g a few of the as cast and see what sort of accuracy you get. You might want to stay away from full power loads at the start.

I have also heard that the .431 sizing die can be honed with fine grit sand paper to size at .432.

If none of that works just send that old thing to me, I need a shiny new boat anchor anyway.[smilie=w:

[RickinTN]

Buckshot, a member here, makes custom sizing dies that are spot-on. He will only make sizes that aren't available from Lyman or RCBS, so I think he's your man.
Rick

[Hickok]

A .431" chamber throat is good in a .44 mag. Try your ACWW and run'em up to 1100-1300 fps. Sized at .431 they should shoot good.

Clean out the cylinder throats and bore to make sure you are not "leaded up."

Also, a .44 may take time and practice to get good results with, seeing this is your first "big bore.":smile:

[JohnH]

I'd suggest running them as cast. If you have some Lee liquid alox, that will work fine for lube, or make/buy some 45-45-10

[Fluxed]

9" groups are not from the throat and bullet mismatch.
What is the load you tried?

[bugkiller]

Outpost75, how do you get your bullets to obturate to gain that thousandth? Use faster powder?

[DougGuy]

Those sizes are correct. When I get in .44 cylinders for throat reaming, I use two different size reamers. If a guy wants to shoot .431" I use a reamer that finishes about .4317" by the time I clean up behind it with a hone.

If some of the throats are already larger than that reamer, which some Rugers will have uneven throats where the .4315" reamer will go right through 2 of 6 throats but not the other 4, then I use the .4325" reamer and get all 6 throats the same size and let the shooter size to .432"

If your throats are even, they are fine. You just need to size to where you can push a boolit into the throats from the front of the cylinder with finger pressure and you will be good to go. If you have any that are larger than the others, it is more important that they be all the same size, than what size they actually are. You can always size the boolit to fit the throats.

You can find Lee .432" sizers, I have one I got from ebay.

[bugkiller]

Fluxed, I had 3 loads of Vih't 32C, 5.9, 6.1, and 6.3 grains. I like the idea of a bulky power, easy to see, hard to double charge.
Hickok, 10-4 on the practice. One of the reasons I wanted to start with 44 spl.

[Hickok]

The Speer lead 240 SWC work well in my revolvers with Unigue for a light load. Start at about 6.5gr and shoot 5 shots @ 25, then go up 1/2 gr of Unique at a time for five shots and you will see the groups start to tighten up. At some point as you increase your charge the groups will start to open again. Go back to your best group and that is your practice load. (Check bore between groups and clean if leading is present)

Should find a accurate load between 6.5gr to about 9.0 gr of Unigue. Makes a nice .44 Special load, and the Speer slugs are not expensive.

[dkf]

I polished a .430" Lee sizer out to size .432", but I have a lathe. I always buy sizers .001" under and polish out to the size I want. This way they size smoother with a nicer finish. The Lee sizers can be a little rough.(as turned)

[reloader28]

I had Buckshot make me a .433. He does a nice job.
If your lube is soft enough, just rub it in the groove with your fingers and load em up as cast to try.

[44man]

I type slow with one finger so it should help! :bigsmyl2:
Throats are perfect size but I would shoot .431" boolits in it, never a boolit over throat size.
Use .44 mag brass. Boolit needs shot faster but might be too soft. I shoot nothing but water dropped WW metal or harder. PB needs hard.
I would not TL, use a good lube, Felix or LBT soft blue.
Takes a short time to lap a die. My Lyman .430" die actually sizes .431", have you measured the boolits after sizing?

[cajun shooter]

Try using a 20-1 alloy. Elmer Keith didn't use hard bullets in his developing the 44 mag cartridge IIRC
If your bullets fit your bore and you have a good lube then you will not have any problems. Later David

[kevmc]

lots of good advice above!!
Your revolver is fine...
Size your AC-WW's to .431, lube and load with Unique.....you'll be good.
6.5 to 8.0 gr Unique will be comfortable and accurate.

[9.3X62AL]

One caveat for those needing a bullet fatter than "standard" .429" for their 44 caliber wheelguns and rifles.......be sure to mic your expander plug in the die set servicing your brass. Many of these plugs come from The Factory at .425" or .426", catering to jacketed bullets of .429"-.430" nicely--but likely to size down softer-alloy lead bullets in the too-small case mouths produced by this tooling. If you'll be needing a larger-than standard sizer die from Buckshot, you might also have him make an M-die spud .002" or so smaller than your bullet diameter. Once I started paying attention to these dimensional vagaries, my bullet seating got a lot neater and easier--and bore leading departed abruptly. Accuracy improved as well. Bullet fit is SO IMPORTANT to this game of ours, and not many die sets do a great job of catering to cast bullet needs. Like the old carpenter's saying--"Measure twice, cut once--measure once, cut twice."

[EDK]

Lathesmith or Buckshot can make you a sizer die. Buffalo Arms usually has some in stock. MARLIN 44 magnum rifles like fat boolits.

[44man]

I go the other way since I use only 296. I want all the case tension I can get so make boolits hard to take seating. Once you get boolits to the size, don't be afraid to experiment. You won't need so much tension with Unique, etc.

[Char-Gar]

You have so much to unlearn and other stuff to learn, that I could not do it in a thread on this board. I will simply make a few statements that are true and let you worry about how to get from point A to point B.

1. Most alloy bullets you buy are ****. No all, but most and you didn't tell us what kind of bullets, alloy temper, lube, etc. etc. etc.

2. Your Smith 629 does not have large throats. .431 is correct and the barrel groove will be .430.

3. It is no trick to have a 44 cast bullet "slug" up .001 or .002". All it takes is for the proper pressure for the alloy. A softer alloy requires less pressure than a harder alloy.

4. If a fellow just has to shoot granite hard water quenched bullets then they had better be the exact size of the cylinder throat, because there the pressure needed to slug up one of those is more than I want to shoot in a handgun.

OK..here is the bottom line: A cast bullet of good design, cast from alloy that is correct for the pressure of of the load, lubed with a good lube and sized .430 or .431 will deliver all the accuracy that handgun has to give. There is no need to use jacketed bullets or powder coat. If you want to fill in the blanks read Glen Fryxells online book "Cast Bullets From Ingots to the Target". It cost you nothing and will give you all the information you want and it is reliable and trustworthy, unlike much of the stuff you read on internet boards such as this.

Now I could tell you exactly what to do to get good accuracy with cast bullets from your revolver, but I won't. Why? Because you will not follow it step by step, to the letter without trying to skip steps, improve on it, or mix it up with misinformation you get from other sources. It is a waste of time to tell folks what to do on the internet, it is better to point them to reliable resources and let them discover for themselves. That way, it will stick with them. Digging it out for yourself will make it yours. Spoon feeding never gives good learning outcomes.

[Char-Gar]

One caveat for those needing a bullet fatter than "standard" .429" for their 44 caliber wheelguns and rifles.......be sure to mic your expander plug in the die set servicing your brass. Many of these plugs come from The Factory at .425" or .426", catering to jacketed bullets of .429"-.430" nicely--but likely to size down softer-alloy lead bullets in the too-small case mouths produced by this tooling. If you'll be needing a larger-than standard sizer die from Buckshot, you might also have him make an M-die spud .002" or so smaller than your bullet diameter. Once I started paying attention to these dimensional vagaries, my bullet seating got a lot neater and easier--and bore leading departed abruptly. Accuracy improved as well. Bullet fit is SO IMPORTANT to this game of ours, and not many die sets do a great job of catering to cast bullet needs. Like the old carpenter's saying--"Measure twice, cut once--measure once, cut twice."

Al.. I jumped the too small expander snake by using a Lyman 310 expander. These come in .429 and cost about $6.00 on Ebay used. If these are used on a standard bench press, a thread adapter will be needed, these cost about $10.00 used on Ebay as well. An alternative is a custom expander or a set of RCBS Cowboy dies. Being cheap by nature and chronically economically challenged I opted for the 310 die solution.

[MtGun44]

+1 on Char-gar's comments.

Use aircooled wheelwts at .431 with a soft lube like NRA 50-50 or LBT soft blue, with a 429421 or
H&G 503, over 10 gr Unique with a std primer and see what you get. Probably work fine.

Bill