311284 in 30-06 for deer?

[ballistim]

I've seen many here mention this design as being great in the '06 but am to curious as to what others have experienced in it's use on game. I really like to have a flat meplate for hunting & am also looking at the 311041 but it's obviously lighter so am hoping to hear from anyone who has experience with one or both designs, or has other suggestions for use in my pre-64 M70 30-06 & possible use in my .308 Mauser. I already have the excellent NOE 311-165 RF (RD) mold I bought for 30-30, .308, & .300 Savage but am looking for a heavier design for the 30-06. I have already researched all the past threads I could find on this but still would like to hear more from anyone with experience here.

[GooseGestapo]

I had a .311384 but sold it many years ago. My Lyman 450 sizer had an out of line ram (bad casting; sold it after I got another at pawn shop...) It "bent" the boolits during sizing/lubing. Couldn't even chamber them...But that was 25yrs ago...
I do have/use a Lee .311 200gr RNGC which is very similar.
It gives excellent accuracy, however, I've not shot any game with it. Too many other/better choices.
I have shot deer with the .311 150gr FNGC from the .30/30 at ~2,000fps. It performed essentially as any other cast bullet has.
Due to similar speed, and relatively little resistance offered by a deer, they just blow through them. My older brother cast and loaded a number of these w/o gc and unsized for his .30/30 and loaded with just 7.5gr of Unique for ~1,200fps.

He was in Airforce at time and had an "indigent" airman working with/under him that wanted some for "plinking" and target practice. While on leave for Christmas in up-state NewYork, he had hunted all morning and saw nothing but snow-shoe hares so he swapped out the j-bullet ammo for a cast bullet. Before he could encounter another hare, a doe came bounding by him having been jumped by other hunters returning from am hunt. He shot the deer with the "something for rabbits" as my brother called them... Bullet hit the deer in the right rear flank. Deer ran un-fazed for about 75yards, then started leaning, and fell over and kicked three more times. Walking to the deer, it became apparant their was a blood trail, then, a double trail, then the dead deer. Upon dressing the deer, it was noted that the bullet transited the liver, lungs, and exited the far shoulder. This is in fact "typical" cast "boolit" performance. Increases in velocity only flatten trajectory.

I've found it requires modifying the nose of the boolit to get expansion or greater shock/impact performance. I killed the largest deer I've ever taken with a cast boolit this year. Best performace, too. I had drilled a 7/64" x 1/2" hollow point on the nose of a Lee .338" 220gr RNGC. I got nearly identical performance to the 200gr FTX with a 3/8" entry wound and 1" exit wound on a pass through shoulder shot. Both front legs were broken, but heart narrowly missed. Deer ran ~20yds and dropped.

If you already have the .311041, I'd just stick with it. I have the similar Lee .311 170gr fngc which casts to 178gr with Hornady gas-check installed. It gives similar performance to the 200gr RN. The ONLY reason I bought the 200gr RNGC was because it feeds excellent through my M1-Garand and of course, mold only cost ~$20.
I suggest you try the Lee 200gr RNGC if you are wanting a heavier RNGC mold for the '06.
I also suggest you try 36.5gr of H4895.... gets 2,000fps and 2MOA accurate through my two '06's.

The point is; Anything over ~150gr and 1,200fps with a .30cal is just "frosting on the cake". Accuracy trumps everything else. Velocity is nice, alloy will be bigger determinant of "boolit" performance. And bore diameter trumps expansion. ie: a 9mm "might" expand, but a .45 never "shrinks"...
If a well placed .30cal will kill a deer at 1,200fps, you won't likely see a "benefit" from a heavier boolit at the same speed. Alloy will determine max speed with accuracy...
Circle talk ???

[clearcut]

I shot my buck this year with cast load (LEE C309-150-f gc )In the neck at 20 yds so not much of a ballistics test.30-06 35gr IMR bang flop.1" hole in spine.
CC

[ballistim]

I shot my buck this year with cast load (LEE C309-150-f gc )In the neck at 20 yds so not much of a ballistics test.30-06 35gr IMR bang flop.1" hole in spine.
CC

I have that mold too, glad you had success, shot a buck out of a ground blind about that distance with a 150gr. Nosler BT about 10 mins after sunup opening day a few years ago, tore him up inside pretty good, glad it was a well placed shot in the vitals but he still made it into the swamp next to my blind & it sure was fun dragging him out...

[ballistim]

Thanks for all of the information, Goose Gestapo! Exactly what I was looking for, greatly appreciate it.

[Wolfer]

I've wanted to try the 311284 in my 06 and 30-40 Krag. However accuracy and terminal performance from my 311041 with small HP has been so good I don't see how it can be improved on.
More accurate at longer distance perhaps but where I hunt 60 yds is a shot you only get every few years.

I almost bought the 311284 when NOE had his year end sale but opted for a different caliber instead.

[ballistim]

I've wanted to try the 311284 in my 06 and 30-40 Krag. However accuracy and terminal performance from my 311041 with small HP has been so good I don't see how it can be improved on.
More accurate at longer distance perhaps but where I hunt 60 yds is a shot you only get every few years.

I almost bought the 311284 when NOE had his year end sale but opted for a different caliber instead.

I'll also be shooting at 100 yds. or less unless a coyote crosses one of the nearby fields, shot one at 265 yds. using this gun with a Sierra GK 150gr. & IMR 7383 surplus powder, would like to get both deer & coyotes w/cast. I too almost bought that mold at the year end sale, but still am looking at the 311041.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/05/833c465a9ab355e02aa4c03894f5b0e6.jpg

[Blammer]

Here is a link to some fun reading for the answer to your question.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?101802-The-adventure&highlight=311284

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?40711-311284-is-authoritative!&highlight=311284''

[ballistim]

Here is a link to some fun reading for the answer to your question.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?101802-The-adventure&highlight=311284

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?40711-311284-is-authoritative!&highlight=311284''
Very enjoyable reading & thanks Blammer!
I'm guessing you're somewhat a fan of the 311284..

[mattw]

I can't shoot deer with a rifle in Illinois, but I would never be afraid to use the 31141 in any 30 cal for deer. I have taken my yote's with it and a few coons and groundhogs. Better velocity = flat shooting, wide meplat = good impact, all is well and good at that point. I use 4895SC in the 30-30 and a slow canister version of 2230 in the '06.

[ballistim]

deleted

[L Ross]

For the Nov. 2013 WI deer season I opted to try the 311284 in a Springfield sporter with an El Paso K-3 Weaver with post and crosswire. I started loading at 42.0 gr of old surplus 4831, yes WWII surplus H4831, around 46 grains the soot started going away on the case necks. At 51 gr I hit 1,900 fps and it was still grouping in a nice round 2" group at 80 yards. Alloy was ACWW and a little tin.
Opening morning I shot an adult doe at roughly 45 yards tight up behind the left elbow just slightly angling away from broadside. She ran about 30 yards and fell dead and showed an excellent blood trail that wasn't needed as she fell within sight of the stand. There was about a 1 1/2" exit wound, thorough lung damage and the major plumbing right atop the heart was all tore up. I was very satisfied.

[ballistim]

deleted

[pls1911]

The Ranch Dog 165 will serve you well in the '06.
If you must have a heavier bullet, seriously consider the RCBS 180 grain fp which casts 190-ish in my alloy, and has a meplat nearly as large as the Ranch Dog

[ballistim]

deleted

[MT Gianni]

Lyman cast #3 has an article by Frank Marshall on hunting with that bullet.

[ballistim]

Lyman cast #3 has an article by Frank Marshall on hunting with that bullet.

I have the newer Lyman cast #4, but that one still hasn't been found since I moved years ago, better buy another copy. I've read his articles in the Fouling Shot years ago. I'll look for it, & thanks for mentioning it.

[richhodg66]

I like the 311284 (mine is an old Ideal single cavity) and it shoots well in my .30-06 and the Mosins. I have cast any with it in a long time and when I did I cast them way too hard for hunting.

I got a sporterized Chech Mauser in .30-06 that likes the 311284 at about 2,000 FPS, at least with the harder ones I had around. Been thinking of casting a few with soft points using Bruce's method for next year's deer season, though I admit, it's way heavier than necessary for deer hunting, a 31141 will go all the way through one at just about any angle at 1800 FPS or so.

[ballistim]

I like the 311284 (mine is an old Ideal single cavity) and it shoots well in my .30-06 and the Mosins. I have cast any with it in a long time and when I did I cast them way too hard for hunting.

I got a sporterized Chech Mauser in .30-06 that likes the 311284 at about 2,000 FPS, at least with the harder ones I had around. Been thinking of casting a few with soft points using Bruce's method for next year's deer season, though I admit, it's way heavier than necessary for deer hunting, a 31141 will go all the way through one at just about any angle at 1800 FPS or so.

One of my reasons for wanting to use the 311284 is because I've read for as long as I can remember how well it shoots in the '06 and had seen it recommended for hunting. FP designs seem to be more popular for hunting nowadays so that's why I wanted to hear from others with experience in the field. Understandably it's heavier than needed for whitetail deer, so another part of my question is; does it kill by penetration or expansion on deer as experienced by those who respond. I'm unaware of Bruce's method of softening the points, will look into that. Thanks!

[richhodg66]

Here it is ;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-53234.html

I have a few RCBS 180 grain FPs I did that way for a .303 Savage I haven't gotten to yet, but I think it'll get tried next year.

Basically, your nose portion is cast of soft alloy while the rest of the bullet is harder. Involves casting with two alloys at once and is tedious and time consuming, but should make cast work just like a Nosler partition.

[ballistim]

deleted

[Dr. A]

I've sure had luck with that soft nose (lead method). I know everyone wants to use the around 2000 or less to advantage, but I use 2350fps in my 30-30 because I can. I used the Leverevolution Larry Gibson worked up with the RCBS 180 FP that comes out to 200gr. (from NOE). I have a big gang mold, and its very difficult, but the blood trail was unbelievable. The doe that went the farthest went 30 yards. Most were around 15 to 20 yards.
http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq322/DavidKSU88/IMG_0013_zps997c2fa7.jpg (http://s460.photobucket.com/user/DavidKSU88/media/IMG_0013_zps997c2fa7.jpg.html)
http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq322/DavidKSU88/IMG_20141203_082030_520_zps178c9416.jpg (http://s460.photobucket.com/user/DavidKSU88/media/IMG_20141203_082030_520_zps178c9416.jpg.html)
http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq322/DavidKSU88/IMG_0015_zpsd8603f88.jpg (http://s460.photobucket.com/user/DavidKSU88/media/IMG_0015_zpsd8603f88.jpg.html)

[Dr. A]

I use lead pellets for my soft nose, and can fashion the exact amount I want on the nose. I'm sure it gets blown off and the remaining 130 gr. or so chugs on through.

[richhodg66]

That's what I did, used 5 or 6 spent .177 air rifle pellets, melted in a ladle and poured in for the nose.

[ballistim]

deleted

[MT Gianni]

Rich, try to get a box of 32 cal rb, pure lead and fit inside a 30 cal nose. Then with the BruceB method you can melt it in the mold by immersing it in the melt.

[RobS]

You mentioned that you like a flat meplat so here is the Lyman 311284 with such.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-215LG-D.png

My dad shot this one when he was shooting 30-06. He had nice results.

[RobS]

There are also quite a few nice designs here:
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30

[ballistim]

You mentioned that you like a flat meplat so here is the Lyman 311284 with such.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-215LG-D.png

My dad shot this one when he was shooting 30-06. He had nice results.

That is a nice looking design with a flat meplate, reminds me of the MP 312-440 group buy mold that I have.

[Dr. A]

Rich, try to get a box of 32 cal rb, pure lead and fit inside a 30 cal nose. Then with the BruceB method you can melt it in the mold by immersing it in the melt.

Exactly what I started out doing, but with my NOE gang mold, it didn't all melt. The ladle definitely was easier and took less time.

[catboat]

I'd give strong consideration to NOE's copy of the RCBS 30 cal 180 gr flatpoint mold. NOE has the diameter listed as .311. NOE has it listed as a .311" - 195 grain bullet (comes gas checked or plain base). It should meet your needs; heavy weight and flat point.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=582

This bullet mold is on my list to acquire. It should be a dandy with my 1976 336A Marlin micro-groove in 30-30, as well as my 30-06 JC Higgins model 51 (FN M-98 action), as they both like fatter cast bullets. The .311" as-cast diameter (or there abouts), flat point, and heavy weight (195-200 grains) should be a nice match for these two rifles.

NOE also makes their version of the 311041, and is listed as .311" and 180 grains. http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=299

The "RCBS" design has a meplat /flat nose diameter of .190". The NOE 311041 version has a meplat of .179". The slightly larger meplat on the NOE /rcbs version could contribute to a greater smack to the deer without going to the extra work of the "soft lead nose" route.

Swede Nelson of NOE just needs to make a few of them. Inventory is low (none-at the time of this post) on these molds.

I wonder if the "Ranch Dog" design, with it's .22+" meplat could be made heavier, close to the 190-200 grain area? Could be even more of a "smacker," than its 165 grain version.

[krag35]

I have been shooting Lyman's 311284 out of both my Krag and my '06. It kills Mule deer and Rocky Mountain Elk just fine. I cast them out of air cooled wheel weights and push them at 1700 FPS to 2100 FPS. Shen sizing, I bump a small metaplat on them with the nose punch.

[square butte]

NOE doesn't have any of these ( 311-195 FN )in stock right now.I've been trying to get NOE to run some of these (311 - 195 FN ) for a couple of months. Would love to see some done in the RG format for HP with a shallow cup point. It would be a natural for Elk and the like. Maybe we should put the full court press on it. Also think it would be great done in .314 and .316 for Krags and .303's with oversize bores.

[Ben]

Swede certainly makes a fine mold. Erik HP'd
this one and did a fantastic job.

As you can see , a real SHOOTER !


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0003-28.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284/PICT0003-1.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/395.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/393.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/392.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/397.jpg


I've settled on this particular HP pin shape and depth, as I believe it will offer the best
expansion / penetration ratio for my needs.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/396.jpg

[ballistim]

Swede certainly makes a fine mold. Erik HP'd
this one and did a fantastic job.

As you can see , a real SHOOTER !


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0003-28.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284/PICT0003-1.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/395.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/393.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/392.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/397.jpg


I've settled on this particular HP pin shape and depth, as I believe it will offer the best
expansion / penetration ratio for my needs.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/311284%20NOE/396.jpg

I'm curious about the HP, having thought about a very shallow cup HP for this design with a soft enough alloy to maintain bullet retention, also wonder what alloy with the HP do you plan on using or have you used for hunting?
I'm also curious as to opinions on what is preferred regarding HP or soft nose solid for hunting based on the experiences of those hunting with the 311041 and similar designs. Several posts have been from those with experience using the soft point method of casting solids for hunting, would like to hear more from those using HP designs in this weight range for deer/black bear/hog hunting.
BTW I've bought a custom Lee 6 cavity 311041 solid mold since my last post and have cast up a few hundred a few weeks ago, very nice mold and all bullets dropping nice boolits at close to .3125, alloy at 21 BHN. I have plans to compare these with the NOE 311-165 RF RD, HM2 311-160-5 Ed Harris design GB mold, and the NOE 311290 GB mold as all are solids and will find what works best in my '06 & .308, although I'm still curious about HP's. I'm in a sling after shoulder surgery last week, so won't be able to test for at least a few months, but will be trying to do what I can once out of the sling to cast and reload to prepare for the testing. I'm glad this thread is going to help me think about what I want to try with designs, powders, and alloys to be confident in my hunting loads for next season with almost an entire year to settle on what will bring down my next deer and first deer with a cast boolit so I can experience the success in accomplishing that goal.

[square butte]

Ben - What's the meplat diameter? ( That would be the larger shank diameter of the HP pin ) Are you also able to cast Flat Nose without the HP pin?

[Ben]

square butte , ballistim ,

I have many different pins for my NOE , 311284 HP mold.

I'll often cast with 50% range scrap and 50% WW's. Makes for a fairly soft bullet that mushrooms well. We all know what happens when the bullet gets to hard and brittle.

You can see the meplat diameter by looking at the calipers.

Ben

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/1779754_zpsrzhnu4xc.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/1779754_zpsrzhnu4xc.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/1779755_zpshi5da4z6.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/1779755_zpshi5da4z6.jpg.html)

[cbrick]

I just pulled the trigger & bought a NOE 311284 mold since it was the last day of the 15% off sale, will still probably pick up a 311041 in the future as well.

For your viewing pleasure. :mrgreen:

130080

[square butte]

Thanks Ben - .190 was about what I figured. I know Erik HP'd this mold - but I think that's close to what NOE's minimum diameter must be in order to use their RG format for HP molds. Assume it's plenty wide to have a nice affect with solids. Thanks again for the photos - Nice assortment of pin sizes and shapes.

[ballistim]

deleted

[ballistim]

square butte , ballistim ,

I have many different pins for my NOE , 311284 HP mold.

I'll often cast with 50% range scrap and 50% WW's. Makes for a fairly soft bullet that mushrooms well. We all know what happens when the bullet gets to hard and brittle.

You can see the meplat diameter by looking at the calipers.

Ben

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/1779754_zpsrzhnu4xc.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/1779754_zpsrzhnu4xc.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/1779755_zpshi5da4z6.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/1779755_zpshi5da4z6.jpg.html)

That sure gives you a LOT of options!

[square butte]

I'm liking the 5th one from the left these days

[ballistim]

deleted

[Ben]

I ask for some blanks so that I could shape a few myself.

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/1779754_zpsrzhnu4xc.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/1779754_zpsrzhnu4xc.jpg.html)

Ben