1873 French 11 mm revolver

[turmech]

Doesanyone have any experience with reloading the 11 mm french revolver. I have had the gun for along time but never shot due to not having any ammo. The gun is in very good shape considering it age. Not trying to win any shooting competitions but I sure would like to shoot it.


What I think I know about reloading for it is: Takes a heeled bullet. Its .452 bore witha .430 ish heel. Cut down .44-40 brass is the typical case used. I see Accurate has a few molds in the catalog which should work.


What I'm wondering is: Am I wrong in what I think I know? Could I use cutdown 44 mag/spec cases(already have lots)? Would a PB 44 bullet haveany change on bumping up and not lead the barrel? What about GC?Anyone already made the mistakes I am thinking about making? Or recommend a bullet/Mold? What dies?


Thanks in advanced for any help, Bill

[turmech]

Thought about another idea, What about reaming the cylinders for cut down 45 colt or 45 acp? Sorry about all the questions guys.

[dtknowles]

I would find a case and round ball that would fit and go shoot it with some blackpower, wad and grease cookie behind the ball. The ball does not have to fit inside the case just jam it on top so it stays and use one that is big enough that will be tight in the throat and wont move forward with recoil.

Tim

[Bigslug]

Does anyone have any experience with reloading the 11 mm french revolver?

Almost certainly not the French.

(Sorry. That one was irresistible. :mrgreen:)

[texassako]

I would not bore it out to another cartridge since it was designed for such a weak black powder cartridge. Buffalo Arms sells already converted cases, and you could probably seat with a 44 Special seating die. You could try a few round ball loads before ordering a custom heeled mold, loaded as dtknowles suggests. You might find the round balls are good enough.

[Springfield]

If you want to know what actually works, go to the SASS wire and find Pony Racer(maybe Poney Racer). He shot a pair as main match pistols for a few years. I now have his French made reloading dies and some of his bullets. My wife has one of these too but she won't let me shoot it!

[Menner]

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?256351-Loads-for-the-M1873-11mm-French-Ordnance-Revolver

Found this on a webb search this guy seems to know what he is talking about might give you a starting point

[dtknowles]

If yours is nice like the one in the Link, it might be worth the cost of dies and mould to shoot it well.

Tim

[turmech]

Mine is in good shape possibly almost as good as the one pic in the link I saw. I have a small amount of pitting on the outside in some spots. The gun is tight and I must say seem extremely stout.

I have explored loading for it over the last several years a time or two. Honestly it gets a little more pricey than I can justify and I move on an forget about the gun for a while. Interestingly enough I found out just last night a that one of my local reloading/shooting friends has the exact same gun which he too has never fired or found ammo for. This is what brought on my latest interesting in the old gun.

I may try the round ball in some cut down 44 mag brass just to see if it is possible. It would be a shame to alter the gun but it would seem simple to just ream the cylinder to 45 cal to match the bore. Loaded to the same levels I could not see it being a safety concern. Really just thinking out loud and most likely not going the way of altering the gun.

[turmech]

If you want to know what actually works, go to the SASS wire and find Pony Racer(maybe Poney Racer). He shot a pair as main match pistols for a few years. I now have his French made reloading dies and some of his bullets. My wife has one of these too but she won't let me shoot it!

Would you be willing to measure the heel and drive band diameters? I think I have seen the kit you are speaking of (tools/brass/bullets). If I had a mold made the kit I saw had the bullet design I would try first.

[blackthorn]

From The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions:
Make from; .44 Magnum (or special). Cut case to length, chamfer, turn rim to .491 dia. Use .429 dia. lead bullets & seat with .44 special die.

Case type= Rimmed Straight
Case length= .71
Head dia.= .460
Rim dia.= .491
Neck dia.= .449
Neck length= N/A
Shoulder length= N/A
Body Angle (deg's/side)= .471
Case capacity CC's= .913

Loaded length=1.18
Belt dia.= N/A
Rim thickness= .041
Shoulder dia.= N/A
Length to shoulder= N/A
Shoulder angle (deg's/side)= N/A
Primer= LP
Case capacity (GR's water)= 14.09

Hope you find this useful!

[leadman]

I think a rechambering would not be good. The ballistics of the original round are a 180gr bullet, FL black powder, 695fps velocity, 195 muzzle energy. This is from Cartridges of the World. It also stated 44 special brass can be cut down to work.
If a full load in a 45 was to be fired in it by a different owner or shooter who knows what would happen.
Maybe you and your friend can go in together and buy a mold for it?

[turmech]

First, thanks for all the help and input so far.
I plan on sitting down with my friend (who I found out owns one as well) and see what we come with. He is my fathers age and has a lot of experience to draw from in fact I would consider him one of my mentors when it comes to guns and reloading. Between all his stuff and all my stuff we should be able to come up with something.

I'm attempting to post a pic of my gun for anyone interested. Thanks, Bill

[map55b]

What did you come up with for loads? I inherited one of these. I had to make a new trigger V spring and hand spring to get mine operational. I just made a mold which produces a ~180 gr .451 dia bullet with a .429 heal. I cut down one 44-40 case and need to device an easier (faster) way to go this. What I have so far fits just fine in the cylinder, but I haven't figured out where I will start for loads.

137452

[sigep1764]

Check this out.http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?6244-RELOAD-11mm-French-Ordnance-Revolver-M-1873

[turmech]

What did you come up with for loads?

I can't seem to find any of my notes nor did I label the ammo (this is quite embarrassing). From memory (and that is not that trustful any more) I used Red Dot and worked up to 3 gr. This was a fairly light load. IIRC around 650 fps. And before anyone jumps on me I know this gun was only meant to shot black powder. I must tell you and anyone reading this that this gun was designed for black powder. From the research I did I felt comfortable with smokeless in MY GUN. The bullet was a .451 round ball that actually cast around .452. I tumble lubed the balls. Seated in a 44 mag case cut down nearly to the specs above. The rim had to be reduced in thickness every so slightly on a lathe or the cylinder would lock up. I later purchase some brass and it was much easier and nicer to work with. I shot a few rounds and put the gun back in the safe. I definitely need to revisit it.

The rounds on the left were made from 44 mag brass the rounds on the right purchased already converted http://www.buffaloarms.com/11mm_French_Ordnance_Revolver_Reloading_Brass_it-156880.aspx?CAT=3831

[map55b]

Thanks for the info sigep1764 and turmech. I've used Unique a few times in "black powder" only rifles and I'm sure it can be done here too. If I can't find anything else, I will probably look for a cartridge with a similar case volume, pushing a 180gr lead boolite out at at about 600fps and start someplace south of that load.

I have plenty of modern stuff to shoot, but the old and unique things are more fun for me.

Update: I did find the attached. Looks like starting someplace south of 3grs of Bullseye would produce less than 675 fps. While bullet weight and velocity don't directly translate to pressure, I believe it would be close. I look like if I keep the load under 700 fps, I am probably close to original loads.