Flintlock Hunting technique q

[soldierbilly1]

How do we do this with a flinter?
For the walk and stalk, I fill pan and half cock.
for stumpsitting, its the same.
When in a tree or elevated point, I am at full cock, and when the animal comes in I fill
the pan.
Sound right to you all?
How do you all do this?

thanks
Billboy

[richbug]

"I fill pan and half cock."

I don't understand why you would vary from this?

[waksupi]

"I fill pan and half cock."

I don't understand why you would vary from this?

Right.

[soldierbilly1]

Thanx

[roadie]

I definitely wouldn't be at full cock...I don't know myself, but have heard it's possible to set off the main charge without primer in the pan.

Anyone have experience in that?

[John Allen]

I have a full pan and half cock. I have always done it this way.

[dlbarr]

Full pan. Half cock.

Always.

[keydet15]

Full pan. Half cock.

Always.

This^

[kens]

Yes, a flinter can go off without a prime in the pan,
if a flint spark finds its way to the flash hole, it can set off the main charge.
its not a sure fire thing, but it has happened.

[bosterr]

Yes!!

[44man]

Never a full pan. Only to the bottom of the hole. Half cock until a shot. Sitting there at full cock is like a rifle with the safety off. Why would you charge the pan when you see deer.

[trails4u]

kens is absolutely right! a buddy and I tried this recently, as he had 'heard of' the accidental ignition by spark only. it only took four attempts with an empty pan!!

[dlbarr]

Never a full pan. Only to the bottom of the hole. Half cock until a shot. Sitting there at full cock is like a rifle with the safety off. Why would you charge the pan when you see deer.

I stand corrected...I said "full pan" but 44man is right. A full pan will take longer to ignite the charge behind the projectile.

"Have the pan charged appropriately" is what I should have stated and at half cock. Always.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

moving, half cock and half full pan with this itty-bitty feather (white) stuck firmly in the touch hole.
sitting, full cock, half full pan, trigger set, ditto on the feather.

[clearcut]

Full pan 1/2 cock aim to kill
CC

[Baron von Trollwhack]

You may miss a lot of shots with some of those conditions.
A deer will jump the hammer fall on the frizzen just like jumping a bow string or hear you cock the hammer or set the trigger too, especially if it is a bit alerted. Those things make them jump near instantly in such cases at just a little click.
If you are moving and stop to shoot, the key is muzzle awareness, half cock, and enough practice to go full cock silently if that is possible with your lock and triggers.
A deer will hear you set the set triggers too. They click! Single sets are the noisiest usually and need setting usually before the hammer will cock. You better be still and set them first. I've had deer hear and jump them at 40 yards. It is perfectly safe when not moving to have muzzle awareness, the pan primed, hammer cocked, and triggers set.....if you keep your wits about you. Put your normal charge in the pan. A common plain trigger is the easiest to use successfully.
Some flint guns have the touch hole enlarged so much that they self prime. This was really common in the flintlock era. We know better now and pay attention to touchhole burnout or simple wear from your pick. Those cute twisted ones are the worst to open a touchhole's diameter.

BvT

[44man]

Unreal how deer hear but I never had a problem with a flinter. Now a Colt style revolver with all the clicks will make a deer go nuts. So will taking off a safety on a rifle. EASE it off.

[old gunner]

yes I have seen it happen.

Bill

[DIRT Farmer]

I bird hunt with a flint shotgun, hammer on half cock walking up, bring to full cock when raising the gun to shoot.
Deer or squrriel hunting, half cock to full cock while raising the gun to my shoulder to shoot.
A gun should go boom immedataly after getting to full cock.

[bart55]

been hunting with flint for more than forty years(well maybe fifty ) ,only had problems first year (learning curve) Keep touch hold open after practice shooting .(yea I was a dumb kid) Killed lots of deer ,woodchucks and squirrels with flintlock .half cock pan appropriately filled , full cock when ready to shoot . I love it!

[ejcrist]

Half pan or less and half cock. Full pan can result in a hang-fire. If it's raining or damp I'll dump the pan and wipe dry, poke the flash hole, and recharge. Never had a problem.

[rush1886]

moving, half cock and half full pan with this itty-bitty feather (white) stuck firmly in the touch hole.
sitting, full cock, half full pan, trigger set, ditto on the feather.

Couple of guys I used to hunt with, and I, came up with a form fitted leather, rather snug little "bootie" over the frizzen, with a catch string attached to the forward portion of the trigger guard. Didn't take much practice to swoosh that bootie off and pull the hammer back in one fairly fluid motion. And, yes, the pan was primed, with hammer at half-cock.

[44man]

Had problems in the rain even with an oiled leather over the frizzen. I shot all my Ohio deer with a flinter back then.
I found water was getting between the barrel and stock, coming into the pan from below. Stock is a very tight fit too. I filled the stock with a thick coat of paste wax and squeezed the barrel in, wipe and polish off excess. That helped a lot.
Still can have a problem in rain so you need to check the pan often.
Wax is great to protect wood finish too. Tru Oil is the best finish, went through a week of downpours with no damage but a friends new TC Hawken was ruined, wood swelled and finish flaked off, I had to refinish for him.

[catboat]

You have received the proper advice for charging the pan so as the touch hole is not covered, and keep frizzen down/closed, and keep hammer at half cock. 100% agree.

A safety detail to offer you:
-with your frizzen down, and your hammer at half-cock, position your SHARP flint, so that it it is barely not in contact (as opposed to "barely touching") the fence (striking part) of the frizzen.

Loosen your hammer jaws, adjust your flint to be just a hair away from your fence, then tighten your jaws down to secure the flint.

If your flint is too far forward at half-cock, then it will be pushing the fence/frizzen forward. This is a recipe for a bumped hammer to create a spark against the fence and create an "oops discharge." NEVER let the flint at half cock touch the fence.

This "pushed forward" condition is not only not safe, but it lets primer powder escape, as well as lets moisture in. Not good all around.

Good to read about a flintlock shooter. It's a lot of fun.

[Banana]

Looking for advice on a muzzle device for new 68 I am going to build strictly for hunting. I have an ARP 16 scout barrel and am ready to start putting new rifle together. I plan to hunt deer and occasional hog hunt. What do you guys suggest? Thanks In advance.

[nanuk]

moving, half cock and half full pan with this itty-bitty feather (white) stuck firmly in the touch hole.
sitting, full cock, half full pan, trigger set, ditto on the feather.

When you have it all set up, you have the Frizzen down on the powder ready to go?
so the feather stick out of the clam and you just have to pull it out to be "hot"??

[tddeangelo]

I used to be of the same train of thought that a half-pan or less improved ignition.

Some very dedicated flintlock shooters informed me that they don't do that...they fill the pan. Hmmmm. May was well try it at the range, right? Nothing to lose, and get to shoot, so that's a win-win!

Guess what? No perceptible delay in ignition occurred.

I'll dig around in old emails/messages from other forums, because there was a study done on this that showed no change in ignition time for a full pan vs half-full pan. Moreover, it showed limited to no "fuse effect" (burning through the powder to get to the vent). Some of the guys I talk with who shoot a lot, and do it year round, have said they feel ignition is improved by a more full pan. My limited trials of both styles of priming has so far shown me that a full pan in my rifle gives more reliably quick ignition. Half-filling the pan leads to an occasional hang fire for me. Thus far, a full pan has not.

Whatever one does, I've found that pan/lock geometry mean a whole lot to ignition, and production flintlock rifles (Lyman/Pedersoli, old TC's, CVA's) tend to have "square" pans, in that they are about as broad front-to-back as they are left-to-right. These seem generally to be less fast to me. My custom gun has a Davis lock which has a fairly narrow pain front-to-back, but it is a Germanic style lock...MASSIVE frizzen on it, so it's a huge pan left-to-right. As I look at higher end locks, they are made in similar configurations regardless of overall size.

Lock geometry plays a big part, too, as the production guns I've used tend to through a "ball" of spark, meaning it just goes EVERYWHERE. The higher end locks I've been exposed to seem to throw sparks down into the pan, and ONLY down. Not up, out, etc.

And lastly, vent geometry and placement are huge factors. The production guns are terrible in this regard, as they tend to be cylindrical. This removes the main charge quite some distance from the pan. Custom rifles will have internally coned vents, either "White Lightning" threaded vents or drilled/internally coned vents. My rifle has the latter. You can SEE the main charge up against the inside of the vent. It's just small enough that none "leaks" (usually, although if I worked at it, I could probably make a granule or two drop out). The means the powder is RIGHT THERE when the pan ignites, and it speeds ignition greatly. Where the vent is in relation to the pan is critical, as well.

I think some of the half-prime benefits come on production guns, as the vents sometimes are placed too low on those guns (slightly misaligned on a few I've seen). It's just speculation, but I wonder if they are just too far down to get good flame from the pan? The vent should be aligned to the center of the pan, with the center of the vent (the imaginary line from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock on the vent hole) even with the top surface of the edge of the pan/bottom of the frizzen. A low vent placement will be a real issue for fast ignition, and that's not exactly an easy thing to correct, either.

With a fairly full pan and a main charge a whisker from the pan itself and properly positioned, then, the pan lights and a huge ball of flame results, making it impossible for the main charge to fail to light, and light FAST. On my custom rifle, a "hang fire" is about the same speed as really good ignition on my Great Plains Rifle. A proper ignition on my custom rifle is just ridiculously fast.

To answer the original question, I also prime and sit with the rifle on half-cock. The leather cover mentioned a few posts back is called a "frizzen stall" or "hammer stall" or "hammerstahl." They are a "safety" of sorts. I use one to transport a charged but not primed rifle. This eliminates the chance of an AD if the lock should fail and let the cock come front from half-cock. I will carry the rifle to the stand in that condition on damp days, only priming when I'm situated, and then checking it regularly (and more often on more humid/damp days). It has to be changed before it clumps if it's really damp out.

PA's flintlock season runs for a month in the area I hunt. I carried my rifle in bitter cold, then brought it into the house (a custom rifle was NOT getting left in my shed with the petty thefts that have occurred in my area). With proper precautions, it was perfectly safe, and if in doubt, I'd take it to the range in the middle of the day and shoot. Never once had it hang for me, let alone fail to fire.

[waksupi]

If you don't think a full pan is giving you delay and hang fires, you aren't paying close attention.

[tddeangelo]

I am continuing to evaluate both, but so far a full pan is as good, if not better. I've been shooting a flintlock since I was 9 or 10 years old. I'll be 40 this year, so I'm not brand new to it. I am brand new to custom rifles, however, and I've found that things are a bit different with such a rifle as compared to the Lyman GPRs and TC Hawken's and Renegades I've used in the past.

Given I've put about 150 shots through my custom 62-cal rifle in the last two and a half months, I've been paying a fair bit of attention to that rifle.

In fact, I took a slow-mo video with my iphone of the rifle firing. I filled the pan about 1/3 to 1/2 and had at it. This was after about 30 shots, by the way, so the vent was getting a bit of crud on it. And it did hang a touch for me. Shots before that when I made sure to clear the vent and gave it plenty of prime.....it was right quick!

I didn't want to believe it either. Then I tried it. If there's anything that's a universal truth with a flintlock, it's that each shooter has to spend time with his/her rifle and sort it out themselves. I was passed this piece of advice from guys that are shooting their rifle several times a month, year in and year out, so I tried it. What they told me did bear out, even though I was sure that I knew it wouldn't. It's fun being able to learn stuff. :)

[waksupi]

I am continuing to evaluate both, but so far a full pan is as good, if not better. I've been shooting a flintlock since I was 9 or 10 years old. I'll be 40 this year, so I'm not brand new to it. I am brand new to custom rifles, however, and I've found that things are a bit different with such a rifle as compared to the Lyman GPRs and TC Hawken's and Renegades I've used in the past.

Given I've put about 150 shots through my custom 62-cal rifle in the last two and a half months, I've been paying a fair bit of attention to that rifle.

In fact, I took a slow-mo video with my iphone of the rifle firing. I filled the pan about 1/3 to 1/2 and had at it. This was after about 30 shots, by the way, so the vent was getting a bit of crud on it. And it did hang a touch for me. Shots before that when I made sure to clear the vent and gave it plenty of prime.....it was right quick!

I didn't want to believe it either. Then I tried it. If there's anything that's a universal truth with a flintlock, it's that each shooter has to spend time with his/her rifle and sort it out themselves. I was passed this piece of advice from guys that are shooting their rifle several times a month, year in and year out, so I tried it. What they told me did bear out, even though I was sure that I knew it wouldn't. It's fun being able to learn stuff. :)

Well, I've been shooting them more years than you have been alive, and have squeaked out three world championships. I don't know any experienced flint shooters that will agree with your observations.

[tddeangelo]

Just for a point of clarity, I didn't post the years I've been shooting as an attempt to one-up anyone. Just giving a point of reference that I'm literally not brand new. I am dead serious when I posted that it's fun to learn stuff, which is what brings me here. I felt it worth sharing what I've been experiencing at the range, but I'll bow out of this one. I have no need to try to win any sort of debate....just wanted to help, but I'm not sure I can do that, so I'll just lurk a bit more. :)

[44man]

The powder should be level with the center of the touch hole or just below so flame goes into the touch hole right now, not burn down to it.
A good lock should ignite the powder at the very first touch of the flint, not after it drags full length.