Flintlock Hunting technique q

[soldierbilly1]

How do we do this with a flinter?
For the walk and stalk, I fill pan and half cock.
for stumpsitting, its the same.
When in a tree or elevated point, I full cock and fill the pan
when the animal is coming in.
Sound right to you all?
How do you all do this?

thanks
Billboy

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I hunt river bottoms and woods when up north there so I always have the pan ready. When I am sitting anywhere I have my hammer on full cock with a finger over the flint. Generaly I will first see the target at under 50 yards so I have little time to get ready.
Stalking my hammer is half cock, pan ready. Again I am generally in bottoms so there is little time or open ground to see past 50 yards. As of today my longest gun deer is 33 yards. Most are 20 yards and less.
If I ever have to hunt open ground I might rethink my habits.
Mike in Peru

[**oneshot**]

Pan charged, half cocked. I only empty the pan to climb into/out of my stand.

[Old Scribe]

Pan charged, half cocked (that's me a lot of the time...LOL). In heavy timber I stalk with the hmmer at half cock while stalking. When I stop I full cock; start the stalk again the hammer backto half cock. Works for me.

[Janoosh]

I stalk pan full, half cock and use a leather frizzen cover. It helps. When sitting, I place the hammer at full cock and still use the frizzen cover. The cover slips right off when ready to shoot.

[waksupi]

I do hope you guys sitting there on full cock don't have set triggers. Foolish practice in my opinion, and I would certainly never hunt with anyone who does this.

[dondiego]

I was thinking the same about being on full cock!

[pietro]

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FWIW - what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.....................................;)


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[509thsfs]

Either stalking or sitting I do half cock with full pan. If I need to go to full cock quietly, I just hold the trigger back as thumb back to full cock. Doing it that way lets you go to full cock silently. I make sure I do not let go of the cock until I know it caught in the full cock position. Works good.

[fouronesix]

Flintlock hunting technique?

:) Just like most all the hunting I do. Very slowly- pure still hunting. Or still hunt mixed with sitting quietly. Or once in a while spot and stalk in thick cover. Or still hunt/tracking.

Caplock- nipple capped and on half cock.
Flintlock- pan primed and on half cock.

Full cock only when ready to shoot. Any other way never crossed my mind.

[OverMax]

Really!! Um ~Full cock you say. ~ Oh my Goodness.
I hunt with my rife occasionally but in the same manor as I would & do with my modern rifle. >Safety first and foremost< But everybody has their ways. I guess I'm just too old fashion in my ways to change. Besides: I like a nosy rifle in the woods. "Everthing knows I'm a come'in for em." ~~~the kid will gladly harvest one for me anyways. He's the shooter in this family. Me, I'm just there the long walks and pretty scenery.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Pan full, Half-cocked. Empty pan and open lock when climbing in and out of treestands.

Full cock only when I hear or see something coming. I lightly press the trigger so the full-cock is silent. Don't use the double trigger during hunting (unless perhaps it was a long shot and I had no worries that the "click" would spook the quarry)

[fastdadio]

Anyone here ever tried pyrodex-P for their pan primer? I realize 4-f is the standard, however in my case, buying a pound for the little shooting I would like to do would not make sense. Just askin....

[waksupi]

Anyone here ever tried pyrodex-P for their pan primer? I realize 4-f is the standard, however in my case, buying a pound for the little shooting I would like to do would not make sense. Just askin....

Try it, and report back. I think I know the answer, but you can be the official tester.

[waksupi]

REAL BP is the correct propellant for traditional ML rifles, both the barrel and the pan. Flintlocks need an easily ignited powder, and Pyrodex isn't it. IF you managed to ignite Pyrodex in the pan, you would experience a significant hangfire IF the barrel charge was ignited. I've seen guys TRY to use Pyrodex in the barrel with ffffg BP in the pan....

Darn it, there you go, spoiling the fun!

[heelerau]

Mate, I do exactly the same as fouronesix.

[Hanshi]

When on the move the pan is primed, cock on half cock and hammer stall on (leather frizzen cover).

When on stand the pan is primed, full cock, hammer stall on frizzen and trigger UN-set.

[fastdadio]

Darn it, there you go, spoiling the fun!

Snicker. snort....I see what yer a dooin here....LOL!
Fine, I'll take good advice when it's offered. Thanks folks.

[Motor]

Will this never die ????

People please READ the directions on your powder containers.

I use 777 in my flintlock and Pyrodex RS. My brother-in-law uses Pyrodex Pellets. The 777 is awsome and leaves very little fouling to slow down your fallow up shots. It also out performs black in velocity hands down.

Got to love that PA flintlock season. We put on drives. On the last day we fielded 12 flintlocks. It was 4 degrees out. Collectively we fired 20 rounds. My rifle and my sons (both loaded with 80gr 777FFG lose) over 10gr FFFFG went off like centerfire rifles. Sad the season is over.

Motor

[dondiego]

Were you using sabots and XTP's in those flintlocks too?

[Motor]

Were you using sabots and XTP's in those flintlocks too?

No. 295gr HP Power Belts. Which is simply a mini with a plastic hallow base instead of a lead one.

[dondiego]

I asked because some states don't allow sabots and jacketed bullets.

[Motor]

I asked because some states don't allow sabots and jacketed bullets.

PA used to make us use PRB only. As with most bad rules it took a long time for them to see the light. PA's first "flintlock only" season was in the mid to late 1970s. It caught on quick.

We used to field 20 to 25 guns so a lot of very good real world experience was gained. The PRB in the hands of the average flintlock shooter is nothing short of inhumane.

Up until they changed the law and allowed conicals we lost more hit deer than we recovered. It was so bad some members of our hunting parties ignored the rule and used maxi's and mini's like the Hornady GP. There hit to kill ratio was very good.

Personally I lost 2 that the PRB did not penetrate the front shoulder. These were shot at bow range !!! with a 50cal PRB. I did get one with a PRB that I double lunged.

The last time I checked PA was the only state that has a "flintlock only" season. They have added a "muzzleloader" doe only season that is in October that you can use inlines and cap locks for but the traditional "flintlock only" season remains. I hope it stays that way too.

Motor

[waksupi]

PA used to make us use PRB only. As with most bad rules it took a long time for them to see the light. PA's first "flintlock only" season was in the mid to late 1970s. It caught on quick.

We used to field 20 to 25 guns so a lot of very good real world experience was gained. The PRB in the hands of the average flintlock shooter is nothing short of inhumane.

Up until they changed the law and allowed conicals we lost more hit deer than we recovered. It was so bad some members of our hunting parties ignored the rule and used maxi's and mini's like the Hornady GP. There hit to kill ratio was very good.

Personally I lost 2 that the PRB did not penetrate the front shoulder. These were shot at bow range !!! with a 50cal PRB. I did get one with a PRB that I double lunged.

The last time I checked PA was the only state that has a "flintlock only" season. They have added a "muzzleloader" doe only season that is in October that you can use inlines and cap locks for but the traditional "flintlock only" season remains. I hope it stays that way too.

Motor
Strange, when I have got complete penetration on elk with round ball. You guys must have some iron plated deer, or shoot powder puff loads.

[Motor]

Strange, when I have got complete penetration on elk with round ball. You guys must have some iron plated deer, or shoot powder puff loads.

I said "average flintlock shooter" maybe novis would have been more accurate. These guys get their FL out once a year. We are hunting deer that have been hunted for 3 months. These factors add up to shall we say not so perfect shot placement.

I know the PRB will get the job done IF the shot is placed well. So will a 22LR. The fact remains that the conical is by far a better choice for taking large game.

Motor

[soldierbilly1]

PA used to make us use PRB only. As with most bad rules it took a long time for them to see the light. PA's first "flintlock only" season was in the mid to late 1970s. It caught on quick.

We used to field 20 to 25 guns so a lot of very good real world experience was gained. The PRB in the hands of the average flintlock shooter is nothing short of inhumane.

Up until they changed the law and allowed conicals we lost more hit deer than we recovered. It was so bad some members of our hunting parties ignored the rule and used maxi's and mini's like the Hornady GP. There hit to kill ratio was very good.

Personally I lost 2 that the PRB did not penetrate the front shoulder. These were shot at bow range !!! with a 50cal PRB. I did get one with a PRB that I double lunged.

The last time I checked PA was the only state that has a "flintlock only" season. They have added a "muzzleloader" doe only season that is in October that you can use inlines and cap locks for but the traditional "flintlock only" season remains. I hope it stays that way too.

Motor
Mr. Motor: I like real world experience here! no theory, just what kills! It sounds like you have seen a lot of dead deer in ML season.
Now, Ah hem, for my Deerstalker Flinter, am I correct in assuming the heavier the conical, the better?
How about the Lyman 370 gr Maxiball or the Lyman Great Plains bullet (395 gr??) Would they be good choices?
better than an XTP? what say you?
thanks
Bill boy
BTW I do not hunt flinters in trees, if I did it would be half cock, half pan loaded.

[dondiego]

If you guys are shooting at running deer, there are going to be wounded deer no matter what projectile you are using.

[soldierbilly1]

Mr Motor: you wrote:

"My rifle and my sons (both loaded with 80gr 777FFG lose) over 10gr FFFFG went off like centerfire rifles."

If I understand this correctly, you used a 10 gr FFFFg "kicker" in the FL barrel over the 777?
do I have this right?
bill boy

[Motor]

Mr Motor: you wrote:

"My rifle and my sons (both loaded with 80gr 777FFG lose) over 10gr FFFFG went off like centerfire rifles."

If I understand this correctly, you used a 10 gr FFFFg "kicker" in the FL barrel over the 777? bill boy, I didn't notice this till later but you wrote "over the 777" I assume you meant under the 777 which would be correct.
do I have this right?
bill boy

Yes. The directions are on the bottle. They say use 5gr FFFF. I have a Hodgdon's reloading manual that has a good muzzleloading section in it. The manual was printed before 777 was made but after Pyrodex was made. It says to use 5grFFFF or 10grFFFF what ever you prefer but reduce the main charge by the same amount.

So if you want to shoot a 100gr charge in your flintlock use 10grFFFF as a kicker as you say and 90gr of your main powder.

As for bullet choice, we have takin many deer with the Hornady GP bullet in both the 385 HP and the 400gr. Of course a lot were takin with maxi balls and other mini's too.

Between the XTP and the 385 GP in the flintlock I would use (and still do at times) the 385 GP.

dondiego, Its not that we are shooting at running deer but very spooked deer that do not stand long. It mostly has to do with marksmanship with the flintlock. I'll be the first to admit it. But I lost 2 deer using a PRB that were shot broadside at 30 and 50 yards and could see the huge hole where the RB simply flattened on the front shoulder bone. That was enough for me. Any decent conical would have penetrated that bone and shot through into the chest.

Its just basic bullistics. I've beed a hand loader since 1985 and have studied bullistics a good bit. If you compair sectional density and kinetic energy between a RB and a conical it makes you wander why anyone would choose the RB for a big game animal.

Motor

[509thsfs]

Well, like it is said, PRB kill all out of proportion to ballistics. Having taken almost 2 dozen deer with PRB, I can't argue with that. Never lost a deer. Did have to trail one about 200 yds, but that was a liver shot, quartering away at 60 yds. Entered in front of left hip and exited behind right shoulder. Took a while to bleed out. But have had that happen a time or two when I used to hunt with cartridge gun. (poor shot placement)

I've only recovered 3 PRB's in all the deer I have shot with my 50 cal. (none with my 54, it blows right through). One big buck did make it about 100 yds after the shot, and that surprised me. The rest...all died within sight...50 yds or less, some never moved a step. The PRB really does mushroom/flatten out and dumps all its energy in a deer. Of course, shot placement and range is the key. Though I will admit, my 1st deer (a real nice buck) with my 50 cal was a neck shot at over 100 yds. I took the neck shot figuring I'd either clean miss of kill him, way too far for a lung shot. Of course, I shot that rifle in matches and new exactly where it hit at that range. Took out both arteries and he never made it more that 50 yds he bled out so quick. By the way, I don't recommend shooting at that range with 50 cal PRB. I just knew that rifle in and out and knew where it hit that far out. Also knew it did not have the "oomph" for an effective chest shot at that distance. I can vouch from a lot of experience, the 50 PRB out to 50 yds is deadly with a solid chest shot.

For giggle and grins, I attached a pic of the only 3 balls I ever recovered. One from a large buck that was a double lung broadside shot that passed through a near side and far side rib. The other two were recovered from Doe that were shot head on and passing through half the body length.

By the way, as deadly as the 50 Cal PRB is under 50-60 yds, my 54 cal with PRB makes it a pip squeak. If your buddies are only taking their rifle out once a year and then hunting with them, that's on them. Not the load. That's the same as a bow hunter doing the same, bad results can be expected. Same with anything you shoot actually.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww187/USAF-SP/50calprb2_zps43e13b24.jpg (http://s718.photobucket.com/user/USAF-SP/media/50calprb2_zps43e13b24.jpg.html)

[Motor]

509thsfs, Nice post. You never mentioned if you were shooting a flintlock or a side lock.

The 54 sure does have more punch. One of our more successful hunters shoots a 54 Renegade. He does use maxi's though but I've seen kiils from his 54 that were shot at all different angles. Nothing stops that maxi.

It also seems from your experience that we are doing the right thing using conicals. We hunt in SW, PA (not in the mountains) and very often the shots are beyond 60 yards.

I for one have made it a resolution to get the flinter out in the off season and get some practice. I've even ordered some spare flints.

Now that I am into casting I'm sure I could cast a RB that was hard enough to break through a whitetail shoulder bone but I see no reason when a have a Lee 250gr REAL and a large mini ball mold plus a bunch of Power Belts I got on clearance. You know a lot of people put down the Power Belts when in reality they are just mini balls with plastic skirts like I said before.

Motor

[waksupi]

The projectile doesn't matter, if you can't shoot well enough to put it in the right place.

[509thsfs]

I've hunted exclusively with a flintlock since 1991. Well except for 2 yrs. In three different states. I'm familiar with SW PA, grew up and learned to hunt there. Northern MO where I hunted for 8 yrs is a lot like SW PA. Also where I took deer out to 100 yds (soybean fields). But those were few. Most were from 10 to 50 yds. Yes I shot 3 or 4 of them under 15 yds. But then I learned how to set up to get those shots.

And like wakeupi said, it does not matter what projectile you use if you don't put it in the right place. And if you don't shoot enough to learn your gun, load, it's limitations and gain the skill it ain't gonna matter. But by all means, use the biggest projectile you can launch until you do. For 50 cal slow twist rifles I personally have used for 2 yrs and recommend bal-lets for a nice conical. I wanted to see what they would do when buffalo bullets came out with them. Hornady makes them now I think. Awesome shooters in a slow twist barrel for someone who wants to shoot conicals. I have nothing against conicals. Just never used a flinter that could shoot them, except for trying the bal-lets, but I don't hunt with that rifle anymore. If I did I would. I'll never condemn what someone uses for deer as long as they are effective. OK , I admit. I did tease the guy with the 375 h&h mag that one year and told him I was glad he had my back for charging lions ha ha.

Just saying don't have your friends who don't practice use bigger projectiles thinking it is a cure for poor shot placement just like guys who think they need the biggest magnum rifle for a 125 lb deer to make up for poor shots.

Range time with them and some informal competition amongst friends is great fun and makes you learn your rifle and even adds a little "pressure" from peers that actually can help while hunting. Above all else have fun and good luck and make meat.

[509thsfs]

Oh by the way. In case I have not challenged myself enough for deer. .. by next fall I hope to have built myself a nice hunting Lehigh Valley or Bedford County pattern rifle in .45 cal. Talk about making sure I set up for close shots. Under 50 yds for sure and passing on a lot of shots due to bad angles. But that's what makes it fun ��

[soldierbilly1]

Just curious, what is a bal-let? is this the Hornady PA conicals? they seem to have a "half of a ball" on the top with a knurled body, conical shape.

Also, BTW, what is an overpowder wad for a ML rifle load? is this the ML Originals 1/8" lubed wad that is see? is this for rifle or shotgun or pistol? or for all?
thanks
bill boy

[509thsfs]

Yes the Hornady pa conical is the old buffalo bal-let. It is made for slow twist barrels. When I tried them I found them to be just as accurate as prb in my 1-66 twist barrel, which is excellent in that rifle. They provide a little extra oomph at normal flintlock ranges.

As for the over powder wads I'm not very familiar with them. I knew 2 guys that used them and told me it gave them a better gas seal under their solid base conicals. Don't quote me on that though. That was a number of years back. I've "heard" of guys using them with prb but have never seen or talked to anyone who actually did. Hopefully someone who uses them can answer it better for you. But yes they are normally used in shotgun and pistol. But I have no experience with either of those

[Motor]

"Just saying don't have your friends who don't practice use bigger projectiles thinking it is a cure for poor shot placement just like guys who think they need the biggest magnum rifle for a 125 lb deer to make up for poor shots."

This always happens in these types of threads. I assure you nobody has sat down and disscussed substituting large conicals for practice.

All I'm doing is relating the experiance of hundreds of shots fired at deer by more than 30 different hunters over a 35 year span.

You have to relize too that 90% of this experiance was generated on drives.

Oh, Some of the guys still use PRB too.

Motor