Forming 43 Spanish Brass

[brstevns]

Has anyone tried making 43 Spanish brass from the 32 gauge brass shot shell?

[John Allen]

you can get 43 spanish brass from buffalo arms if you do not want to go through the trouble.

[Don McDowell]

Why it just get the proper brass from Jamison?

[GUSTAVOAR]

Hello: Form from 45-90 (Starline is what I use) trim to lenght and shoot a lot.

SALUDOS
(From ARGENTINA)

[Nobade]

The brass shotshells won't hold up very long, they are not made to handle the pressure of rifle rounds.

As in the other forum, I strongly recommend you make a chamber cast of your rifle before moving forward. These rifles are all over the map as far as dimensions, and spending money on it before you know what you have may be a waste.

In my own example of one rifle, I tried 43 Spanish brass in it and got horrible accuracy. The case is a good 3/8 inch too short for the chamber. I ended up making cases out of Jamison thick rim 44-90BN and trimming them to the length of the chamber. That turned a 15 MOA gun into a 2-3 MOA gun with just that change.

I am not sure how you'd use 45-90 cases for this, the base is way too small. The case is almost the same diameter as a 50 caliber cartridge or 348 Win.

-Nobade

[Don McDowell]

When you fireform a 45 case , there will be a visible bulge just ahead of the case head web, at blackpowder pressures this isn't a problem , it may become a huge problem shooting smokeless tho. The other thing is the rim thickness, while hopefully after fireforming the 45 case , it will be headspacing off the shoulder, if it's not, then you'll be into a headspace problem and stressing firing pins and the breechblock.
Proper brass is readily available these days, not much reason to try and make do.

[GUSTAVOAR]

In the most comon Remington RB of my Country (1879 Argentine Contract) there is a small (not Huge) bulge after fireforming 45-90 to .43 and no headspace problems as you use the shoulder. With cuality brass as Starline there is no problem and last a lot of shots. The big problem is that 45-90 is very rare here, You can use 45-70 (short neck) but as Nobade says accuracy is not the same.

SALUDOS

[brstevns]

Thanks for all the information, Once rifle arrives I will make a chamber cast. I just cannot afford the price of the premade 43 spanish brass.

[bigted]

I bought 20 cases from Bertram and have never looked back. the 44-90 BN cases mentioned above will work but be careful to get the thick rimmed cases as the shove and headspace in the thin cases is very hard on the breech block as well as the firing pin that Don mentions above.

Bertram are expensive but as in the other section ... I mentioned that with no sizing nor excessive forming ... they will prolly outlast you in life if taken care of. also you will have brass that is headstamped correctly which is a plus in my book.

[pworley1]

I have had good results using 348 win.

[brstevns]

I have had good results using 348 win. Did the 348 fit without swageing the base?

[Don McDowell]

Thanks for all the information, Once rifle arrives I will make a chamber cast. I just cannot afford the price of the premade 43 spanish brass.
If you can't afford the 45$ for a box of 20 properly headstamped brass, you might consider a different chambering, because the brass is going to be your lowest cost investment to shoot the thing.

[skeettx]

I used a diesel engine wrist pin and made a base swage for my 12 ton shop press.
Took imperial sizing lube and only did a couple cases a day to not swell the pin.
Wow, does the press grunt !!

AND when you swage the base, you send enough brass back to make up the rim thickness :)

MUCH easier to buy it :)

Mike

[fouronesix]

If you can't afford the 45$ for a box of 20 properly headstamped brass, you might consider a different chambering, because the brass is going to be your lowest cost investment to shoot the thing.

Amen to that.

There is enough difference in key dimensions between the 348 and the 43 Span that it's simply not going to work very well. The rim thickness for the 348 is about .065" and about .080-.085" for the 43 Span. The body, at rim junction, for the 348 is about .545" while the 43 Span is about .515".

[Lead pot]

This discussion has come up before. So to actually show what will happen to a .45 case shot in a .44 with a base diameter of .516-.518"
And if you have a rifle where the gas can blow straight through a firing pin channel could be bad news to the shooter.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_0278_zps66b938e1.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_0278_zps66b938e1.jpg.html)http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_0280_zps8acc0894.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_0280_zps8acc0894.jpg.html)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Those Magtech shotgun cases are great for shotguns, but tend to split at the rim with even full power .577/.450 Martini-Henry loads, and I think the .43 Spanish, even with black powder, might generate higher pressures. Some kind of rubber, compressed paper or plastic base plug epoxied inside the case head before necking down (rather like a shotgun case) might prevent it. But if one gets out into the bore, a ring-bulge with the next shot is almost certain.

If you can find a rimmed case for the rimmed equivalent of rounds such as the H&H magnums, it should be very usable. But those might have to come from Bertram etc. for just as much money as the .43. Another possibility is the German 6.5x68R case, the rimmed version of the 6.5x68 Schuler. I have some of these by RWS, and while not cheap, they were considerably cheaper than Bertram, and probably more durable. The diameter above the rim is .524in., and I think you could size that down with a powerful loading press, except for the solid web, which could be safely turned down. If you don't have a lathe, you could use a small carpenter's rebate plane, which will plane away brass right up to the rim. You could even make up a holder to use an electric screwdriver, and this is a job you would only have to do once.

[Don McDowell]

For crying out loud. Jamison/Captec International sells properly dimensioned and head stamped 43 Spanish brass, and a box of 20 isn't that much more than a box of the magtec shotgun brass..
http://www.captechintl.com/proddetail.php?prod=43SN20pcs&cat=14
Save time save money do things right the first time...

[brstevns]

OK as stated cannot afford ready made brass at this time. However maybe I can trade for some?
Pretty sure I have 100 new 44mag brass stored back, just need to find it.

[Don McDowell]

Better save your pennies then. If you can't afford 45$ for brass where you going to come up with the money for primers, powder and bullets..

[leadman]

I shoot several of these old rifles and it is a way more expensive hobby than shooting current rifles. But as said previously buy the brass that is proper for the gun when available and move on. I have not had to junk a single piece in the 5 or 6 years since I bought the brass.

Find some "extra stuff" like your 44 brass and sell it to come up with the money. Unlikely you will come up with used brass but you can always try by posting in the Wanted to Buy section here.

[Don McDowell]

Might check with Buffalo Arms, you may be able to be that brass just one or two pieces at a time... It gets really expensive that way tho.

[brstevns]

Might check with Buffalo Arms, you may be able to be that brass just one or two pieces at a time... It gets really expensive that way tho. Thanks, that is the only way I would be able to get some together.

[Bob Busetti]

Made mine out of 348 brass. Chuck them up in a drill press & file down the bottom 1/2" above the rim with a fast cutting file till getting close to the right diameter then finish with a fine cut file & emery cloth. Takes 10- 15 minutes. Anneal case & fire form, Trim case.

[bigted]

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/21476

http://www.buffaloarms.com/43_Spanish_Brass_Cases_it-1090402.aspx?CAT=3839


im with Don ...

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I shoot several of these old rifles and it is a way more expensive hobby than shooting current rifles. But as said previously buy the brass that is proper for the gun when available and move on. I have not had to junk a single piece in the 5 or 6 years since I bought the brass.


That is true, but it is mostly in the overheads - the dies, the mould if that is the way you go, and the brass, which will last a long time at these pressures, if it is the right brass. The cost per round isn't very different. The Spanish Remington is one of the most practical and efficient of black powder rifles, so that niggling "Maybe I should try another rifle..." isn't going to come waking you in the night.

[leadman]

Ballistics, that is what I meant. I can find lots of 30-06, 223, etc. laying on the ground at the range but never anything like the 43 Mauser or Spanish. Dies usually are not cheap either.
I bought a 71 Mauser about 5 years ago in very good shape for $250 but probably spent the same again getting it shooting.

[brstevns]

Ballistics, that is what I meant. I can find lots of 30-06, 223, etc. laying on the ground at the range but never anything like the 43 Mauser or Spanish. Dies usually are not cheap either.
I bought a 71 Mauser about 5 years ago in very good shape for $250 but probably spent the same again getting it shooting.

I have a few things on flea bay. Hope to get at least enough for the dies.

[Bob Busetti]

I have been using Lee dies for the 43 Spanish, $32.00. Dies are ok, but Lee shell holder for this case really sucks. No problem with RCBS shell holder.

[enfield]

If you don't spend as much on brass, dies, and moulds as you did for a rifle you are doing something wrong :)

[brstevns]

If you don't spend as much on brass, dies, and moulds as you did for a rifle you are doing something wrong :) I am beginning to see that:holysheep

[ogre]

I bought 20 cases from Bertram and have never looked back.


+1 on that.

[MtGun44]

Had the primer pocket floor fracture on two of my Bertram cases. Kinda irritating for
as expensive as the darned things are.

Bill

[brstevns]

I shoot several of these old rifles and it is a way more expensive hobby than shooting current rifles. But as said previously buy the brass that is proper for the gun when available and move on. I have not had to junk a single piece in the 5 or 6 years since I bought the brass.

Find some "extra stuff" like your 44 brass and sell it to come up with the money. Unlikely you will come up with used brass but you can always try by posting in the Wanted to Buy section here.
Yes Sir that is just what I will do.