Annealing Cases

[brad925]

How often should I anneal my cases.

[Hickory]

Every 5-6th time.

[ukrifleman]

In 43 years of reloading, never felt the need to anneal.
ukrifleman

[RobS]

It depends if you are full length resizing or only neck sizing. You'll be able to go a bit longer if you are only neck sizing and not overworking the neck when reloading.

[georgerkahn]

I find a need to anneal brass which is older and/or hard to find pretty much after EACH firing. Cartridge brass hardens as it is worked, and will crack/split/become useless over time and use. For me, my .30-'06 and similar bottleneck cases get annealed every every firing -- I have one of those Giraud machines for these. For other calibers (wink wink) it surely seems less trouble to me to anneal my .30, .32, and .35 REM brass (and others) than find and/or acquire more. I believe some of my few .32 REM cases are fifty plus years old, and definitely would not be still useable had I not annealed. Kind of a judgement call to directly answer your question. My first clue was splitting .38 Special cases -- WOW! -- spinning their mouths while in a 3/8" drive socket with a bolt thru, chucked in a cordless drill, for a few seconds in a Bernzomatic torch flame would seem to make my brass now last forever. There are MANY articles re annealing -- Mr. Venturino even has one on it in the current issue of Handloader Magazine you may wish to read.
BEST -- and of course, Happy New Year!
georgerkahn

[ukrifleman]

In 43 years of reloading, never felt the need to anneal.
ukrifleman

Perhaps I should have qualified that statement by saying that I neck size where ever possible and have never used cases converted from a different calibre.

ukrifleman.

[dragon813gt]

The answer is, it depends. You won't hurt anything by annealing at each reloading. You can decrease the life of the case by not annealing. If you really want to know load one until failure and then start annealing before that point.

[Screwbolts]

I totally agree with post #7.

IMHO, it matters little if you are N S, or Full length sizing the brass. In both cases, if you are using a standard die that over works the neck to a smaller dia. than what is need to properly seat/hold a Boolit. Then Pulling that neck over a mandrell ( commonly refereed to a neck expander ) to expand it back to expand ( by some +- standard ) it back to a quess as to the correct dia. Then you are over working the brass and need to anneal often. That is if you want to use your brass for consistent results.

I use lots of Lee Colet dies for this reason. Even then I anneal as bullet seating tension tells me to. On many of my neck dies I have polished out the neck portion of the die to size my chosen brass to the correct diameter to hold the boolit properly. I remove the neck expander from the die, or grind them down for use to lock the decaping pin in.

Remove the expander mandrel from your dies and size some cases to see just how much they work or over work your brass. This alone is the only way to find out. All dies are made to a +- standard, yours could be tight or loose, testing is the only way to know. You will need and IMHO should have mikes and calipers already to measure things important to loading.

Just my .02 cents,

Ken

[Doc Highwall]

Talking with different people that I know that have done a lot of research on annealing say to anneal at least after every third firing.

I just purchased this annealing machine from Bench-Source as I really like the features that it has. I had been designing one very similar using a Geneva Wheel mechanism and was looking at motors when I found the site for it at Accurate shooter and immediately ordered it. After pricing all the materials and with my time and labor I decided I was not going to save much.

http://www.bench-source.com/id81.html

Watch the video.

[M-Tecs]

Purchased a Bench-Source shortly after they came out. Wonderful machine.

[country gent]

Hand gun brass dosnt get annealed other than 222 rem and 357 Herret. Most bottle necks every 7-8 loadings if I dont loose them before. On the big BPCR cases with black powder every 2-3 loadings or before a big match. How much you work your brass loading and crimping How hot the loads are and even the brass cases themselves determine this. Starline brass has a tag in with some brass stating that if used with black powder loads it needs to be annealed at the start. It saves alot of neck splits on expensive cases. One trick is to measure a case sized with out an expander ball in the die. Measure ID then expand and remeasure if there is alot of spring back after expanding there is hardness and memory to the cases and annealing may help.

[JWFilips]

For my rifles I shoot them 5 x then anneal ...But I only neck size and I shoot light cast boolit rounds in my rifles. I treat all my rifle brass as precious.

My Pistols: Well, I never have ...maybe I should but again I'm shooting light rounds and only use custom expanders not to overwork the brass as much. I do get a mouth split once in awhile on the pistol brass but What I shoot is very common so there are always 1x on the ground to pick up at my public range

[dragon813gt]

I've been eying up the Bench Source machine for years. Using my bench for everything, outside of reloading, I don't have the space to set it up permanently. One day :)

[MrWolf]

I am just getting into the 32 long colt. Finding brass has been like finding hens teeth, but I am accumulating some (or will when two sources get here). The 32 long colt are small straight walled and will be fired using light loads in a Marlin Model 92 (manuf around 1907 it appears). Would annealing in this case make any difference? I can understand for bottlenecks but straight wall? Reason would be to keep the brass viable for as long as possible.

Ron

[brad925]

Thanks guys. I think I will definitely anneal my 25-06 cases every 2nd or 3rd loading. They don't seem to stand up near as good as my 7mm brass. As for my 45-70 stuff, because I have several rifles for that calibre I have to full length size but I think I coul go probably at least every 10 or 15 loadings. Never had a fail with them yet but some of this stuff is getting hard to find.

[JWFilips]

I am just getting into the 32 long colt. Finding brass has been like finding hens teeth, but I am accumulating some (or will when two sources get here). The 32 long colt are small straight walled and will be fired using light loads in a Marlin Model 92 (manuf around 1907 it appears). Would annealing in this case make any difference? I can understand for bottlenecks but straight wall? Reason would be to keep the brass viable for as long as possible.

Ron

That is a perfect reason to anneal ( Brass hard to find) I would think that it would prevent premature case splitting from work hardening. You only need to take it down to near the boolit seating depth on the case. Do not go any lower on a straight wall. Seems a straight wall case spreads the heat down the cartridge quickly...be careful, too low and the brass will be ruined & unsafe to shoot

[ballistim]

I split 5 out of 20 military cases being reformed to .358 Winchester recently. Annealed 80 cases after that & not a single split.

[Screwbolts]

That Bench-Source annealer, is SWEET. In the video on their site, linked above, watch the operator shorten the time the brass is in the torches on the fly. I thought he was getting them to hot at first, and he shortens the time to perfection. Watch him reach down, he is making an adjustment.

Ken

[Good Cheer]

How often should I anneal my cases.

Yeah, depends on the chamber versus your sizer, how you size, how fast the brass gets slapped (pressure curve), how much the neck is holding the boolit, how much crimp... boy howdy, lotsa stuff.:confused:

[Doc Highwall]

The number of times between annealing does indeed have many variables. Take two rifles one with a large chamber neck and one with a tight chamber neck fired with the same load, the one with the larger neck will allow the case necks to expand more meaning that they will have to be sized down more causing the cases to be work hardened sooner.

What size does your case neck measure on a loaded round, and after firing what size does it measure? Now after you size it but before you pull the expander ball through it, measure it again to see how much the die sizes it down, then add more working of the case neck when it is expanded to seat the bullet.

[cajun shooter]

They have many BPCR shooters who anneal after every firing in the large BP caliber cases. I do mine the same way. Later David

[44magLeo]

I went to the Bench Source site. Why don't they list a price on the site? I don't like dealing with places that require you to give your contact info just to find a price.
Are they afraid the price will scare people away?
Leo

[dragon813gt]

I went to the Bench Source site. Why don't they list a price on the site? I don't like dealing with places that require you to give your contact info just to find a price.
Are they afraid the price will scare people away?
Leo

No, they don't sell directly. There are links to vendors. Buffalo Arms charges $510.

[Yodogsandman]

This link shows a homemade salt bath annealer...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153620-Annealing-Setup

[dragon813gt]

This link shows a homemade salt bath annealer...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153620-Annealing-Setup

Tried that. Makes a mess and burnt myself. Dealing w/ 1k degree potassium nitrate is not fun. The results were less than stellar. And if you think water under lead makes a mess you don't want to see what happens w/ potassium nitrate.

[Yodogsandman]

I've never annealed cases but, plan to in the future. Neither the water or potassium nitrate should be anywhere near the lead. Once annealed in the salt bath and quenched in the water, they must be allowed to dry before use.

What specifically happened to turn you off on this process? It's what I was planning to do.

[dragon813gt]

It makes a mess. The salt sticks to the cases. You can talk to the guy who posted it. He will tell you the same thing. The explosion was caused by condensation in the case from being in a cold garage and inserted in the salt bath. It's quicker and a lot leas mess to use a deep socket and a drill. Try it if you want. I can't recommend after trying it a few times.

[Yodogsandman]

explosion??

[country gent]

I use a lymann mag dipper ( 10lb) lead pot with a stand I made up filled with silica sand ( glass makers sand) this is a very fine grain sand. The stand has a base a "stop"plate and a top plate with 12 1/2" holes drilled around it. These are mounted on a 1/4" flat head screw to position the plates a[ppropriatly. I use a lead thermometer to make sure it is to temp of 800* insert a case mouth down in each hole and when ring is full remove one ( i use a small set of channel locks) and insert another working the circle till your out of cases. The sand dosnt seem to stick and transfers heat well. Water will casue a popping here also. I do water quench the cases from the pot. I also sit the pot in a cookie sheet to catch occasional spills and dropped cases.

[dragon813gt]

explosion??

Yeah, same thing as the tinsel fairy. When water flashes to steam there is only one place for the salt bath to go, up and all over. It's to dangerous in my eyes. Figured I'd just give a friendly warning. I had to turn the temp up a lot so minimal salt stuck to the case.

[Yodogsandman]

I use a lymann mag dipper ( 10lb) lead pot with a stand I made up filled with silica sand ( glass makers sand) this is a very fine grain sand. The stand has a base a "stop"plate and a top plate with 12 1/2" holes drilled around it. These are mounted on a 1/4" flat head screw to position the plates a[ppropriatly. I use a lead thermometer to make sure it is to temp of 800* insert a case mouth down in each hole and when ring is full remove one ( i use a small set of channel locks) and insert another working the circle till your out of cases. The sand dosnt seem to stick and transfers heat well. Water will casue a popping here also. I do water quench the cases from the pot. I also sit the pot in a cookie sheet to catch occasional spills and dropped cases.

Certainly sounds safer than the bath salts.

[country gent]

You can still get the water to steam reation but it is closer to the surface and dosnt throw near as much around. Finding this fine glass sand / silica may be hard in some areas. Here we have libby owens glass and a friend brought me home a large peanut butter jar full to try. It works for me with the big cases.

[Boyscout]

I have been using a dab of Tempilaq 750 on the inside of my necks and using a propane torch. I set a flat file across a pan and knock them into as soon as the Tempilaq disappears. Tried water a couple of times but not sure it was really necessary and it took too long for them to dry out. Using this method, I can see a color change that fades out at the shoulder and no further down. Never once has the brass glowed red (overheated and ruined).