.45 long Colt brass

[pakmc]

I just ran into a new one. I was loading LC brass on my Dillon 550B and several pieces of brass were not taking the primer with out a lot of trouble!. HRTRS brass has very under size primer pockets! they measure .205- .206, Winchester etc. measures around .210. the HRTRS brass was once fired brass. I think it was range pick up. they are not as small as small pistol primers, I even tried to campher out the primer hole a little, that diddn't work either.

[Nueces]

Easiest to scrap 'em. If I wanted to salvage them, I'd use a primer pocket uniformer.

[singleshot]

Send 'em to me, I'll MAKE THEM WORK! :bigsmyl2:

[Hang Fire]

The problem is you were attempting to prime a cartridge which doesn't exist. Try .45 Colt and they will prime OK.

Just jerking your chain. (;>)

[Catshooter]

Ok, so just what does "HRTRS" stand for?


Cat

[Akheloce]

Ok, so just what does "HRTRS" stand for?


Cat

Probably Herters, the Cabelas' house brand- imported

I generally load 45 Colt brass as well, never tried that "long colt" stuff

[BCB]

Easiest to scrap 'em. If I wanted to salvage them, I'd use a primer pocket uniformer.

I though the uniformer was for depth and not width...

Which is he talking about? I thought width...

Good-luck...BCB

[mozeppa]

I though the uniformer was for depth and not width...

Which is he talking about? I thought width...

Good-luck...BCB

with depth...you get width. (unless they are too wide to start with.) then you only get depth.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Accept the responsibility you have for knowing the brass you feed into your press.

BvT

[jonp]

Ill pay postage for some if you would like to get rid of a few. Ive not tried herters brass and id like to fiddle with a couple as i have several brands of primers. I just ran into this problem with tula primers and one brand of brass. The tula would not seat for anything

[cajun shooter]

Hangfire, I've been fighting that issue since I started shooting in the early 60's. I have posted on that subject on this forum many times.
I try to explain where the mistake started back in the 1870's and it still continues today. The US Army had two side arms issued in 45 caliber at the same time(typical cluster ------). One being the 45 Schofield and the other being the 45 Colt for the Colt SAA with 7 1/2 inch barrels.
The ordance officers who for the most part were the same as present day bean counters that knew nothing about the firearms. They sent the 45 Colt rounds to units that had the Schofield revolvers( mostly cavalry ) and the Schofield ammo to the troops equipped with the 1873 Colt SAA revolvers. Now the troops with the Colts were able to use the Schofield ammo as they are shorter than the Colt ammo and are interchangeable in this revolver. It was often requested as it was lighter in recoil and the troops shot with it better. Now the poor troops with the Schofield were out of luck as the Schofield revolver ammo was short and the longer 45 Colt ammo would not chamber which left them with nothing to fire.
It is said that the officers with the Colt SAA would tell supply that they needed the longer Colt round and not the short ones.
As is true with most slang, it caught on and continued to be used by those who should have known better. Many a famous gun writer has used the incorrect name of Long Colt.
I always finish my explanation with a challenge to those who continue to use this improper wording. I ask them to bring me a box that has a 45 Long Colt label. I then ask them to also bring me a firearm that has 45 Long Colt inscribed on the barrel.
This is in the same class as those who insist on the use of bad nomenclature on describing a auto pistol or rifle as having a "CLIP" instead of a magazine. They have rifles like the M1 Garand that uses clips but a M1 Carbine uses magazines. The best way to make this clear is to say that any firearm that uses an enclosed container to hold the ammo for that gun and that container has to be inserted in the gun, it uses magazines and NOT CLIPS.

I'm finished with my pet peeves now, so I'll say to all Have a very Happy New Year!!! Take Care David

[scb]

125946 Not all of us have been loading for 30 or 40 years. When this is what folks see and read from people who should know better what would you expect. I'd cut the guy some slack.(click on picture) If you want to try to educate folks by explaining that 45 LONG Colt is a misnomer brought on by the 45 ACP that's one thing but inferring that they are stupid and don't know what they are talking about that's not very helpful.

[dondiego]

I am pretty sure that I have a box of ammo that has a .45 Long Colt logo. Couldn't find it in the pile of empty boxes lying around though.

[TheDoctor]

Many that I run into think 45 Colt is 45 ACP. And the revolver cartridge is a Long Colt. The manufacturers do not help, some put Long Colt on their boxes and data pages. Kinda like I got flammed once for saying hot water heater.

[crash87]

Actually there "was" a 45 short Colt, and I don't mean Schofield. In fact I just recently came upon the article, but I've read so much lately and just to lazy to look. Do a search, its out there. Now with that done I'm still trying to decide;
Which "is" better the 270 WCF or the 30/06 Sprfld?
CRASH87

[dondiego]

30-06

[Nueces]

I am pretty sure that I have a box of ammo that has a .45 Long Colt logo. Couldn't find it in the pile of empty boxes lying around though.

I've also seen a vintage box mark 45 Long Colt, pre-war UMC, I recall. There were 32 Long Colt and 38 Long Colt - so, why not?

[6bg6ga]

I just ran into a new one. I was loading LC brass on my Dillon 550B and several pieces of brass were not taking the primer with out a lot of trouble!. HRTRS brass has very under size primer pockets! they measure .205- .206, Winchester etc. measures around .210. the HRTRS brass was once fired brass. I think it was range pick up. they are not as small as small pistol primers, I even tried to campher out the primer hole a little, that diddn't work either.

What did you use to measure? Generally one needs a pin gauge to obtain the correct answer.

[singleshot]

I've seen OLD 45 Short Colt ammo marked on boxed and with the 45 ACP being a 45 Colt, I'm content with calling the old warhorse 45 Long Colt. Now, if you say "45 Colt" you've got even odds the person will confuse it with 45 ACP. I'm pretty sure Paco Kelley had a box of each and has referenced them in a few of his articles. I don't really care what the manufacturers originally call stuff, they do dumb stuff all the time. I like the idea of naming conventions that remove ambiguity, not contribute to it. On that note, what do you guys think of renaming the 325 WSM, 8mm/404 Jeffery Short and 327 Fed Mag becomes the 32 Long Colt Super Magnum or the 312 Fed Mag??

[Orchard6]

I've run into the same issue with HRTERS brass in .357, I did get cci small primers in them but they where the tightest pockets I've ever run into.

[bangerjim]

I've found a few at the range. Did not work.....scrapped them.

Now I only by Starline NEW 45LC brass 2K at a time. Primes perfect ever time. Forget any range pickups of brand "H".

banger

[Ken in Iowa]

It appears that at least some of the Herters ammo is made by Sellier and Bellot. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Handgun-Ammunition|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104372280/Hertersreg-Select-Grade-Handgun-Ammunition/1305056.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse.cmd%3F N%3D1100189%26WTz_l%3DSBC%253BBRprd1145704&WTz_l=SBC%3BBRprd1145704%3Bcat104372280

S&B cases are notorious for having tight primer pockets. I normally do not reload them. They are fine for setup and dummy cartridges though.

[jonp]

Actually there "was" a 45 short Colt, and I don't mean Schofield. In fact I just recently came upon the article, but I've read so much lately and just to lazy to look. Do a search, its out there. Now with that done I'm still trying to decide;
Which "is" better the 270 WCF or the 30/06 Sprfld?
CRASH87
Ive seen 45 Short Colt which infers a Long Colt

[USSR]

with depth...you get width. (unless they are too wide to start with.) then you only get depth.

No you don't. The cutting tool is on the bottom of a uniformer, not the sides. Herter's brass is made by S&B whose brass also has small diameter primer pockets. Only thing you can do with this brass is treat them like they have a crimp and bevel the entrance to the primer pocket to give you a chance to squeeze the primers into place.

Don

[Dale53]

I have never tried to load S&B brass (just haven't run into any). Can you swage them with an RCBS swager? I have swaged thousands of military .45 ACP cases but that is to remove the crimp. If I had some, I WOULD try to swage them.

Just a thought...

Dale53

[Nueces]

No you don't. The cutting tool is on the bottom of a uniformer, not the sides. Herter's brass is made by S&B whose brass also has small diameter primer pockets. Only thing you can do with this brass is treat them like they have a crimp and bevel the entrance to the primer pocket to give you a chance to squeeze the primers into place.

Don

Yes, you do. The uniformer is a full diameter cutter, or near enough.

I just found a Herters 45 Colt case among my cowboy brass and ran my RCBS uniformer into it, which did take a bit off the sides. A new primer seated easily.

[cajun shooter]

SCB, I have never inferred that anyone is stupid!!! Read all of my posting before you go off and accuse me of something that was not present. If you stay on this forum long enough to do some research, you will find that I've always went out of my way to help others.
When others use the incorrect wording to describe certain items, should we encourage them to continue to do so or point out what the correct wording is.
If someone would post a picture of a 45 ACP and call it a 45 Colt, should that continue or should that person be informed they are wrong?
I also see where some of the posters are saying that the 45 Colt and 45 ACP are confused all the time. The ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol and is for a pistol , not a SAA revolver.
To you who want to prove me wrong instead of doing the research for yourself so that you would know the correct information instead of saying I saw that once so I must be correct are taking the wrong approach.
John Taffin has used 45Long Colt in his articles, so is that supposed to mean that the whole world forget the original name that was given the name 45Colt by the inventor?
Go ahead and throw your stones at the messenger as that seems to be the new trend for learning when someone points out the misuse of the correct names.
I've seen a lot of I have a box with 45 Long Colt ammo with that label. Please produce it. I'm not speaking of brass boxes, bullet boxes as my point is that even the people who sell the supplies have bought into this incorrect naming and I'm sure that that may b e around. I'm speaking of a box of ammo that was made from the seventies and earlier.
If you had been in the infantry and called your rifle your gun, then you would know about what I'm speaking of.

[Wayne Smith]

Yes, you do. The uniformer is a full diameter cutter, or near enough.

I just found a Herters 45 Colt case among my cowboy brass and ran my RCBS uniformer into it, which did take a bit off the sides. A new primer seated easily.
My Lyman Uniformer is full diameter. I have uniformed many S&B cases. The Primer pocket cleaner does not cut, or shouldn't.

[Bullwolf]

I've seen a lot of I have a box with 45 Long Colt ammo with that label. Please produce it. I'm not speaking of brass boxes, bullet boxes as my point is that even the people who sell the supplies have bought into this incorrect naming and I'm sure that that may b e around. I'm speaking of a box of ammo that was made from the seventies and earlier.



Not trying to be argumentative here, or to prove you wrong, or even trying to prove a point or anything else like that.

It's just that many manufacturers now call it 45 Long Colt, which only adds to the confusion.

When you tell a lie long often enough, people start to believe it as the truth. It's been called for 45 Long Colt by so many now, that it's starting to take on a life of it's own.

I was trying to sell 350 pieces of 45 Colt once fired brass at a gun show, I labeled it as 45 Long Colt brass to help the average consumer understand that it was not 45acp.

A quick web search shows many boxes of loaded ammunition that do say 45 LONG Colt on them.

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h416/haak48/FFA45COLT1.jpg

http://sgammo.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/download_129.jpg

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/544/544894.jpg
http://cdn6.bulkammo.com/picture-gallery/image/101e16ea6662161996ec7e3881ffa37b/4/5/45lc200lrnfpbv45c2nbvac-50-4_1.jpg
http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2014/10/30/3656862_02_box_of_25_rounds_45_long_colt__640.jpg


From a midway 45 Long Colt link, we even find a PTG head space gauge that's labeled as 45 Long Colt.
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/886281/ptg-headspace-go-gage-45-colt-long-colt
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/886/886281.jpg


To share a few.

Since there is also 41 Long Colt, many will simply assume that there must be a 45 Long Colt as well.

Especially now with many of the large online sites also calling it 45 Long Colt, and incorporating that into their headers and searchers.

I know this doesn't make it the correct way to describe the caliber, but much like calling detachable box magazines clips, and an M1 Garand enbloc clips clips... Folks will probably be able to get the gist of what you are trying to say.



- Bullwolf

[StrawHat]

Hangfire, I've been fighting that issue since I started shooting in the early 60's. I have posted on that subject on this forum many times.
I try to explain where the mistake started back in the 1870's and it still continues today. The US Army had two side arms issued in 45 caliber at the same time(typical cluster ------). One being the 45 Schofield and the other being the 45 Colt for the Colt SAA with 7 1/2 inch barrels.
The ordance officers who for the most part were the same as present day bean counters that knew nothing about the firearms. They sent the 45 Colt rounds to units that had the Schofield revolvers( mostly cavalry ) and the Schofield ammo to the troops equipped with the 1873 Colt SAA revolvers. Now the troops with the Colts were able to use the Schofield ammo as they are shorter than the Colt ammo and are interchangeable in this revolver. It was often requested as it was lighter in recoil and the troops shot with it better. Now the poor troops with the Schofield were out of luck as the Schofield revolver ammo was short and the longer 45 Colt ammo would not chamber which left them with nothing to fire.
It is said that the officers with the Colt SAA would tell supply that they needed the longer Colt round and not the short ones.
As is true with most slang, it caught on and continued to be used by those who should have known better. Many a famous gun writer has used the incorrect name of Long Colt.
I always finish my explanation with a challenge to those who continue to use this improper wording. I ask them to bring me a box that has a 45 Long Colt label. I then ask them to also bring me a firearm that has 45 Long Colt inscribed on the barrel.
This is in the same class as those who insist on the use of bad nomenclature on describing a auto pistol or rifle as having a "CLIP" instead of a magazine. They have rifles like the M1 Garand that uses clips but a M1 Carbine uses magazines. The best way to make this clear is to say that any firearm that uses an enclosed container to hold the ammo for that gun and that container has to be inserted in the gun, it uses magazines and NOT CLIPS.

I'm finished with my pet peeves now, so I'll say to all Have a very Happy New Year!!! Take Care David

David, have you ever seen a cartridge headstamped 45 Schofield? The old ones I am aware of were all marked 45 S&W.

Kevin

[w5pv]

I haven't seen the 32 Long Colt mentioned. I haven't found it yet and a good chance that I am wrong but it seems that I had a box of 45 colt from Winchester that was marke 45 Long Colt.

[BCB]

Here they are...

BCB

[cajun shooter]

Yes I have some that I used in my 45 Colt in SASS. Go to the the Starline brass site to view them. If that is not good enough, then PM me with your address and I will send you some 45 Schofield brass in the mail. Bullwolf, I hope you did not take too much time in putting together your last posting which proves my point. If you read every line in my posting you will find a line that reads, a box of ammo produced before the 70's as that is about the time that every thing went south with the proper wording of the 45 Colt. You also may want to take the time to read some history on the subject instead of proving me wrong.
It really does not make a hill of beans to me as far as how I will continue to live my life. If you are content in proving that 2+2 = 5 then that is fine with me. If you want to feel like you've won a battle, then ok you win. You have proved that this world is changing and the people no longer care if they are correct or not. Just don't be upset if you ever see me writing 45 Colt instead of what you feel is correct. Later David

[bangerjim]

So what's the big deal? REAL 45 cal ammo is and always has been 45 LONG COLT.......the original! 45ACP is a Johnny Come Lately to the caliber and is inferior, yet is somehow way too popular today. Difficult to load for many. Not as versatile for loads. Picky on dimensions. If you do not call it 45LC, too many idiots at gun shows and online will buy it and try to stuff it in a 45 ACP semi! "Duuuhhh....my bullet won't go in!"

Give me a 6 banger revolver and a belt full of 45 LONG COLT cartridges and I am in lead heaven!
Or a carbine.

45 LONG COLT........the bullet that won the west.

If ya' can't "get 'er done" in 6 shots, you might as well give up.

banger :guntootsmiley:
......that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[osteodoc08]

So what's the big deal? REAL 45 cal ammo is and always has been 45 LONG COLT.......the original! 45ACP is a Johnny Come Lately to the caliber and is inferior, yet is somehow way too popular today. Difficult to load for many. Not as versatile for loads. Picky on dimensions. If you do not call it 45LC, too many idiots at gun shows and online will buy it and try to stuff it in a 45 ACP semi! "Duuuhhh....my bullet won't go in!"

Give me a 6 banger revolver and a belt full of 45 LONG COLT cartridges and I am in lead heaven!
Or a carbine.

45 LONG COLT........the bullet that won the west.

If ya' can't "get 'er done" in 6 shots, you might as well give up.

banger :guntootsmiley:
......that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

thanks banger. Too add more confusion to the debate. LOL(Purple Font Applies)

of course I'm talking about the 45 Colt never being originally chambered in the RIFLE that won the west. The 1873 Winchester.

[geargnasher]

It really does not make a hill of beans to me as far as how I will continue to live my life. If you are content in proving that 2+2 = 5 then that is fine with me. If you want to feel like you've won a battle, then ok you win. You have proved that this world is changing and the people no longer care if they are correct or not. Just don't be upset if you ever see me writing 45 Colt instead of what you feel is correct. Later David

The sad truth, and root of the argument.

People would rather argue "correctness" of mold vs. mould or whether there was ORIGINALLY ever a long and short version of Sam'l Colt's only .45 caliber centerfire cartridge than they would to learn anything at all. I use the English spelling of "mould" because that's what Lyman/Ideal has used for 125 years, it's a traditional term for me in an esoteric art. Besides, we all know "mold" is what grows on old cheese and I have a real problem with words that have completely different meanings being spelled the same in our language.

Languages evolve through use, much to our detriment most of the time because as words lose meaning, history is lost as well. I'm just barely old enough to remember the common use of the word "funky". When I was a kid, I heard one man say "Man, that was funky". Another asked him "Good funky, or bad funky?" At that instant I knew the meaning of that word had died. I wonder today how many people know about Sam'l Colt and the history of his company, and how it was John Browning that invented the 1911. In another generation or two, no one will likely even care about these great men or what the work of their lifetimes represent.

Gear

[geargnasher]

So what's the big deal? REAL 45 cal ammo is and always has been 45 LONG COLT.......the original! 45ACP is a Johnny Come Lately to the caliber and is inferior, yet is somehow way too popular today. Difficult to load for many. Not as versatile for loads. Picky on dimensions. If you do not call it 45LC, too many idiots at gun shows and online will buy it and try to stuff it in a 45 ACP semi! "Duuuhhh....my bullet won't go in!"

Give me a 6 banger revolver and a belt full of 45 LONG COLT cartridges and I am in lead heaven!
Or a carbine.

45 LONG COLT........the bullet that won the west.

If ya' can't "get 'er done" in 6 shots, you might as well give up.

banger :guntootsmiley:
......that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

I actually took you off my ignore list long enough to read that post. Mistake immediately corrected.

Gear

[bangerjim]

thanks banger. Too add more confusion to the debate. LOL(Purple Font Applies)

of course I'm talking about the 45 Colt never being originally chambered in the RIFLE that won the west. The 1873 Winchester.


I figured SOMEONE would bring up the rifle!!!!! OMG>>>>>>WE all know that. The six shooter what I am referrring to. I do not take the time in every post to list the entire history of what I am talking about. I assume the readers here have some knowledge of fire arms history. Or they can type into Wikipedia easily.

But thank you for pointing that out for those that are totally ignorant to that fact.

banger

[bangerjim]

I actually took you off my ignore list long enough to read that post. Mistake immediately corrected.

Gear

Back a ya. You and a whole bunch of olde tymer "know-it-alls" on here are on my ignore list!!!!!!!

banger

[jmort]

I don't care either way, .45 Colt or .45 Long Colt but I do like Paco Kelly's explanation:


A MAJOR FEATURE ARTICLE THAT WILL BE SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL45 (long) Colt in
Leveraction Rifles
(PACO)
Those that voraciously disagree with the word ‘LONG’ in the phrase 45 Long Colt............don’t e-mail me.....my spiritual brother (for almost a lifetime), and dear friend, John Taffin, has been trying to change my position for decades....and John may be correct, as all of you may. But in this, I am unrepentant...why? Because among other reasons, I have a full box of 45 Short Colt ammo produced in 1883 and that got me to really investigate! Not Schofield...but “45 Short Colt” Ammunition.....(230 grain bullet/hollow base/28 grains B.P.) People back then called them LONG or SHORT Colts when making purchases......so do I today.

[TXGunNut]

Many that I run into think 45 Colt is 45 ACP. And the revolver cartridge is a Long Colt. The manufacturers do not help, some put Long Colt on their boxes and data pages. Kinda like I got flammed once for saying hot water heater.

Actually the 45 "Long" Colt misnomer predates the 45acp by a fair bit. The 45 Colt was a government issue round at the same time as the 45 S&W/Schofield. As the 45 Colt was a tad longer than the 45 S&W /Schofield the tag of 45 "Long" Colt was erroneously applied. The improper name has lasted longer than many legitimate cartridges, a testament to the staying power of the 45 (not "Long") Colt.
For the record, I used to torment an old friend by saying "45 Long Colt". He knew I was familiar with the 38 Colt and Long Colt, the 41 Colt and Long Colt, the 45 S&W and 45 Colt but it always got a rise out of him. Sure miss that old codger. :-(

[Tar Heel]

Seems to me that the long and short of it (pun intended) is an argument for another thread. The poor guy has a question about primer pockets. Agree with the S&B brass position of scrap it. I have had problems with all of their brass for reloading.

[TXGunNut]

Yes, if it can't be fixed it should be recycled. The rest has been a bit of fun and a lesson of historical correctness, not to be confused with political correctness.