I want to build a .300 savage plinking load.

[2meterb]

Long story short - I've got an Arisaka Type 99 with a cut down (but not reamed) chamber.
After casting and verifying with a spent casing - it's 300 savage.

Given the Arisaka's, um, generous chamber dimensions, and in the interest of doing this cheap - I want to try my hand at my first cast bullet gun. I want to make light plinking loads (like 1400-1700 fps max.) For now I'll play with 110gr 30 carbine bullets. (The arisaka has a .311 barrel, but really, I just want to hit a gong at 100 yards for now.) and if moderately successful, graduate to CBs. And after the baby comes and the wife will let me melt lead, fire up my own .311 bullets.

I did a bunch of research, and looked at Lyman's, and basically it says "Start with Universal at 9-10gr."

None of the powder places I know in the area have it (most were really confused when I asked for Hodgon Universal.)
Can't find it online.

I'd heard 800-x and be used sometimes like this. I have a little bit of that. But I can't find any data to support it. :/

[RickinTN]

Universal has been scarce for some time now. I understand the plant which produces it suffered a fire and will probably be this spring before it is again available. It is a close cousin to Unique. Many folks use the two interchangeably. With the light charges you are mentioning it should work pretty well for you. You may also get better accuracy using jacketed bullets of .311" diameter. Sierra and Speer both make some as well as probably others.
Good Luck,
Rick

[2meterb]

Couldn't find Universal either, but I'll keep an eye out!

[dragon813gt]

A lot of the pistol and shotgun powders will work for what you want to do. Maybe not at the velocity you stated but for hitting a gong at 100 yards most will do. It's going to come down to what you can find. As much as I don't like it, personal reasons, Unique will do what you want and it's been somewhat available lately.

[2meterb]

Yeah, i'm hoping my 800-x will do it. Just can't find much on people using it other than a mention here or there.

[dragon813gt]

It's called load development for a reason ;)
Quickload will help a lot w/ this :)

[starmac]

Exactly what is cut down but not reamed?
Did you slug the barrel at 311?
What dia are the 30 carbine boolits?

[2meterb]

They cut the barrel down (chamber side) but did nothing else to it. (so it still has 7.7 japanese chamber dimensions, except the back bit cut off)

I melted alloy into the bore, measured 3.11

The 30 carbine bullets are .308

I'll move up to .311 cast later.







Quickload looks amazing, but I can't justify the cost for an occasional plinking gun.

[starmac]

My old lymans has cast loads down to 118 gr boolit with unique or 2400.

I don't know much about the arisaka, but how did you determine it is now 300 savage?

[2meterb]

My old lymans has cast loads down to 118 gr boolit with unique or 2400.

I don't know much about the arisaka, but how did you determine it is now 300 savage?

I cast the chamber. After comparing results (caliper) to my reloading manual case dimensions, I got some 300 sav brass to try in the chamber.

see pic:
http://i.imgur.com/EgMQDQE.jpg?2

the Arisaka's 7.7 japanese chamber is a bit tapered, but bigger than 300 savage. (hard on brass from what I understand.) The shoulder profile is nearly identical, though.
And obviously there's a major difference in case neck! At least I won't need to trim for a good long while.



The chamber casting at the rear is .47, while sized 300 savage is .465, so it's not awful.
Tapers down to .45, 300 sav is .41.



I've been in the firearm hobby about a year, and reloading less than that. So I'm aware of the possibility that I'm totally upside down/backwards on all of this. :)


I thought about just turning the Arisaka Type 99 into a wallhanger - in fact, that was my intent when I bought it. But after I found out it had a modified chamber, it seemed like a great opportunity to learn some new stuff.

[longbow]

Not an Arisaka and not .300 Savage but I find that the Mihec 316410 is a great boolit in my Lee Enfield .303's. It comes in at 126 grs. with hollow point and just over 130 grs. solid.

I have been using up to 10 grs. of 700X under that with good results so far. I am now out of 700X so will be working up some loads using Unique and Green Dot next. .300 Savage is a little smaller case so a little lighter load than for .303 British would be in order.I would guess that 6 to 8 grs. would be suitable in .300 Savage but best to check.

I don't have it in front of me but the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has load data for .300 Savage.

Take a look here for some guidelines:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Since .300 Savage has a little less capacity than .308 or .303 you should drop the starting load a few grains but you should find some useful powders in that link.

If the groove diameter is 7.7 you are looking at typical boolits for .303 British and again, the 316410 is a good one if you can get a mould.

You might also look at the Lee 90 gr. SWC's for .32 cal. handguns. they should also fill the grooves in that barrel. If it is really 0.311" then you might get away with some standard .30 cal moulds.

Also worth a look:

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

He says "...larger than .300 Savage..." but again, start lighter and work up.

There are options out there.

Longbow

[2meterb]

Thanks! this is my 'guinea pig' gun for cast bullets. I'd like to cast .311 for my Tokarev and Mosin Nagants once I get this all hammered out.


800x is a lot slower than Bullseye/700x. But not terribly slower than Universal it looks like...

[RobertS]

I bought an arisaka a few months ago that was converted to 300 savage and so marked. It seems that I read somewhere this was a fairly common conversion. I haven't fired it, but I have wondered how it would shoot. I'll follow this thread with interest and thanks for bringing it up!

[kens]

LEE has a 185gr boo lit for .303 brit, you might try that.
Almost any pistol could work, Green Dot, Unique, 2400.
10 gr of Green Dot would probably be on your mark.

[leadman]

I looked up the 300 Savage in both of my Lyman cast bullet manuals and they had no 800X. I looked in my new Hodgdon Annual at the burn rate chart and 800X is number 38, while SR4756 (not 4759) is #39.
The Lyman manual #3 has data for SR4756 with a 120gr cast at 10.0grs to start, 14.0grs max. With the 178gr cast it is 10.0grs to start, 12.0grs max.
I would use the starting load for the heavy cast bullet and see how it shot. If you are using a jacketed bullet the pressure might be higher than the cast.
Use at your own risk.

[Motor]

If it were mine I'd most likely go with Unique or 2400. You could try the .308" 110gr bullet but I don't think it will be very accurate.

My vision for a good load in the velocity range you posted is:

Unique: 12 to 15 grains with a 150 to 160gr cast .313" boolit.
or:
With 2400. You may need a little more 2400 like 2gr more to match the Unique in velocity.

This of course is just my opinion but I shoot a lot of cast from Mosin Nagants, 3 of which are .310 to 311 groove diameter and they love the .313" cast boolits.

Motor

[nekshot]

if you use 308 brass and resize to 300 sav you will fill the neck as chamber cast shows and that long neck is what you want for cast. Lee's last reload manual has a section for reduced loads in 308 that would work for you if you back off a little to start.

[2meterb]

I ordered some converted 308 from a forum member. I'll just let the neck 'grow out' through resizing.

I think I have actually seen 2400 for sale at least!


Leadman, thanks. I think I'll start with 8.0gr of 800-x and run it through a chronograph.
The Arisaka action is very strong, and it should be a low pressure charge. I suppose what I do have to worry about is squib.

Do we use Large Rifle or Large Pistol primers?

[2meterb]

http://i.imgur.com/EUIqWbb.jpg?1

Doesn't feed worth a damn because of the magazine length. I'll have to figure out something clever and not permanent for that.
Chambers just fine. (These are snap caps.)

Can't wait for my 300sav brass in the mail. This is gonna be fun.

[plainsman456]

Use large rifle primers.

It was a common thing to do after the war.
They are a fun gun to shoot.

[2meterb]

Use large rifle primers.

It was a common thing to do after the war.
They are a fun gun to shoot.

Thanks!

Damn shame they did it to one with monopod, intact mum, and full aircraft sights! :)

[TXGunNut]

NOE has a 311414 mould that I'm looking forward to trying in my 300 Savage. Give it a look when the lead melting ban is lifted at your place.

[res45]

if you use 308 brass and resize to 300 sav you will fill the neck as chamber cast shows and that long neck is what you want for cast. Lee's last reload manual has a section for reduced loads in 308 that would work for you if you back off a little to start.

This is what you get when you resize 308 Win. or 7.62 NATO brass down for the 300 Sav. as mention you will get a longer neck. The #2 case is the 308 run through the 300 Sav. FL resizing die and the new shoulder formed. Of course for my Sav. 99 I have to trim the case. On a side note the LC 7.62 NATO brass having slightly smaller case capacity gives me about 75 fps. added MV over the standard 308 Win. brass with an equal load.
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s443/reloader762/X51to300Sav_zpscb3089e2.jpg


My favorite load in my Sav.99 is 16.0 grs. of 2400 and the Lee 160 gr. RN tumble lube gas check bullet sized to .311" the Lee 170 gr. RNFP works just as well.
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s443/reloader762/scan0001_zpse8cc60ae.jpg

[2meterb]

Found some unique! Loaded 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5 behind the .308 110 rn.
Had to single shot it- maybe due to the bullet profile.
Ran really nice, about 6" groups at 25 yards (about the same as my m1 carbine, heh) at 11 grains, and it didn't like more or less powder.

Getting some 123gn 110 cast boolits in the mail.. This is definitely fun.

[dragon813gt]

6" at 25? I would not be happy w/ that.

[2meterb]

6" at 25? I would not be happy w/ that.

I expect it will get a LOT better when I load .312 cast boolits. My wife used the phrase 'hotdog down a hallway' when i said i was running .308 bullets in a .312+ bore. LOL.

[2meterb]

Finally got my .312 coated bullets in. I started at 10.0gr Unique, and got about a 2" group. Each higher charge was worse and worse. Over 11 started leading the barrel. I should have had my chrono.

Going to load from 10.0-9.0 and test again.

Incidentally, I tried these in my Mosin Nagant, and it did extremely well with 11.6gr (and leaded at 12)

Thanks for everyone's help!

[Janoosh]

You should try 32 cal pistol boolits as plinker loads. Or 32/20 boolits, as they are larger. I use cast boolits from M B C for the 32/20 as plinkers. Research "mouse fart" or "cat sneeze" loads on this site. Lots of gun with a little powder.

[Eddie2002]

Track down the Lee 100312 mold made for .32 pistols. The mold drops a nice two lube band 100 grain bullet that works great in both of my Arisaka 99 in 7.7x58. I've been pushing it with 5-6 grains of Bullseye or Greendot for 50yd plinkers. Any fast burning pistol powder will work and with the strong Arisaka chamber you won't blow the gun up even with a double charge. Been trying to work up a load for my 91/30 Mosen but need a large diameter boolit for it. Have fun shooting the Arisaka, glad to hear it won't be a wall hanger.
8 mm Mauser brass would also work if you don't mind trimming a lot off the case.

[paracordkydexcummins]

I expect it will get a LOT better when I load .312 cast boolits. My wife used the phrase 'hotdog down a hallway' when i said i was running .308 bullets in a .312+ bore. LOL.


Your lucky my wife looks at this as a waste and thinks anything close is good. She is a great shot. I just don't tell her what and why I reload. Thank you for all the links and good info can't wait to try them out.