Remington 11 20ga excessive recoil?

[Avery Arms]

I bought a Rem 11 20ga from a pawn shop a while back and just recently fired it, it works fine but the thing is just downright painfull to shoot and I'm wondering if a mechanical problem could be causing excessive recoil?

My shooting partner and I have shot a boatload of different shotguns and have never seen a 20ga kick this hard, the shells were just typical skeet loads and did not cause abnormal recoil in the SXS guns we were shooting which were about the same weight and have hard narrow buttplates just like the model 11.

I also have the exact same gun in 12ga and it kicks less even with buckshot loads.

Is it possible that the recoil could be caused by the barrel slamming against the receiver because there isn't enough friction on the bronze ring against the magazine tube?

The spent hulls looked fine and only landed a few feet away.

[Piedmont]

I have never shot one of them but know the mechanism is adjustable to accommodate different shell strengths. This likely would affect recoil also. There is a youtube video on adjusting it.

[country gent]

I have a Remington model 11 in 12 gauge, made under contract for browning basically a Browning A-5 hump back. Keep in mind the whole barrel recoils with the bolt back. In the gas system is a sleeve one end is anngled one is flat. This mates with the coresponding part on the gas system. One end is for light loads the other is for heavy loaads. Also keep in mind modern shot shells are carrying heavier payloads and charges than when this shotgun was made.

[Hogtamer]

If you are used to gas operated guns the Model 11 (made on Browning patent) is a whole different ballgame. There should be 2 rings on the tube with the spring. To reduce recoil put the small ring with one flat side under the spring; then the spring, the the larger brass ring on top of the spring with the flat side toward the breech. That's all you gonna do with that model. If it won't eject put the bottom ring on top of the spring, then the brass one. There is no has system on a model 11 - it is a blowback. The spring compresses enough to open the bolt and eject the hull. The model 1100 is a gas operated gun.

[SOFMatchstaff]

Make sure the friction ring components are stacked properly and there is NO oil on the magazine tube. Pull up the Remington "Mod 11 friction ring settings" and the 3 settings are pictured. I have had to very lightly rough up the tube with 320/400 grit sand paper to slow down the action on a couple older 11"s and A5"s when the guns worked just a tad to well in the ejection dept.

[scb]

One has to be certain the friction ring, friction piece, and the friction spring are in good condition and most importantly are set up properly for the load you are shooting. You should also be certain that the fiber cushion and it's rivet are present and in good condition. I have seen these that have had the back of the receiver broken out where these things were not taken into consideration.
Gas has nothing to do with the functioning of this system. This is strictly a recoil operated shotgun.

[Hogtamer]

"The heart of the Browning long-recoil system is the friction ring assembly. With enough friction, the action works without beating itself up. Too much friction causes malfunctions, and too little leads to excessive felt recoil, a cracked forearm and broken internal parts"


For Browning, Rem 11 and Savage 720. "The standard shell guns will have two friction rings, one of which is a two part assembly. The steel ring is beveled in the inner edge like the beveled gas ring of an 1100, but is solid, and without a gap in it. The bronze ring is segmented on its indside face, and has a spring steel clip-ring around it. The bronze ring and its steel clip-ring each have a gap."


"On the standard guns, there are three settings that all the literature mention, heavy, light and lightest. By far the largest number of guns are left in the heavy configuration, and work well that way. The heavy configuration is with the recoil spring on the magazine tube, then the steel bevel ring over the spring with the bevel towards the muzzle. The bronze friction ring with its steel clip-ring goes on next and then the barrel hanger. Once the forearm goes on, the bronze friction ring is sandwiched in between the bevel of the rear ring and the bevel machined into the rear face of the barrel hanger.


"Upon recoil, the two bevels act to squeeze the friction ring against the magazine tube. The heavier the recoil, the greater the friction."


"The other two settings for the standard guns are light and lightest. However, I have never had to use them. The light setting simply takes the steel bevel ring and moves it from between the recoil spring and the bronze ring to between the rear of the spring and the receiver. Obviously, back there it does nothing to influence the amount of friction. It rests there simply to keep it out of the way without losing it. I have never used it because every gun I have fired worked fine in the heavy setting, even with 3 dram target loads. However, if your gun does not cycle with the light target loads and the friction rings set in the heavy configuration, change the rings. While I always had good luck with my various A5s and clones (a total of nine guns I owned, and several hundred customer guns) yours may be different. And, I test fired them all with a 3 dram equivalent handload. You may be using a target load that is even lighter."


"The lightest setting for the Browning A5 (Rem 11) is meant for shotguns with a Cutts Compensator installed. The Cutts is an external choke combined with a recoil reducing cage. In the Cutts setting you remove the bronze ring entirely, and leave the steel ring in back of the recoil spring. (Why not sotre the bronze ring back there too? The bronze ring wold prevent the barrel from recoiling all the way back in its proper stroke.) The extra weight of the Cutts unit i only part of the reason you have to decrease friction. When the wad and shot leave the muzzle inside the cage, their recoil generating work is done. When the wad and shot strike the choke, they jerk the barrel forward. On any other shotgun the forward force would be imparted to the whole gun, dampening felt recoil. On the A5 the force is imparted to the barrel, decreasing its ability to cycle the action."


He recommends to set it to the heaviest configuration that will work to avoid cracking the forearm and other damage.


From Gunsmithing: Shotguns, by Pat Sweeney. If you have a Rem 11 or Browning A5 or Savage 720 you should own this book.

[RMc]

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/remington_model_11.html

Also an interesting article on the Mdl. 11 with some very good photographs of the internal parts.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/04/22/gunsmithing-shop-remington-built/

[too many things]

there is another thing to look at In the stock is another spring It is a secondary its main reason is to return the bolt but if the pin is gone it will still return the bolt BUT will not help on the recoil
do as others have said about the friction ring, and it could be worn out as happens the brass insert should have good grooves and out side steel should not have the splits lined up

[Avery Arms]

Well I took it apart and the bronze friction ring looked OK but the steel ring was behind the spring for the light load setting so I moved it forwards and I'll see if that helps.

Thanks for all your comments, I've owned several of these browning type auto's but never encountered any unusual recoil so I wasn't sure what to think about this one. I think they are great guns and love how well they work when cut down so I'm always hoping to find one ratty enough to make another riot gun. I got two of them (this 20ga model 11 and a 12ga model 720) $300 for the pair at a pawn shop but both are in fairly good condition so I don't know if I can bring myself to chop them. My 12ga model 11 and the 16ga A-5 I used to own were already cut down when I bought them so no guilt required.

[nekshot]

forcing cone can bring nasty recoil also

[scb]

FWIW you might want to check the bore diameter. I have a NOS barrel that never has had a barrel extension fitted to it. It was chambered but never bored so it is basically tighter than full choke from one end to the other. That's why I've never sold it. Wouldn't want to sell it to someone that would just go ahead and shoot it the way it is.