1980 Ruger 77 Heavy barrel 243 with burnt throat. Options?

[JWFilips]

Hi Guys,
I have a super shooting 1980's Ruger 77 V Heavy barrel with the throat burnt From many years of +3000 FPS loads ( actually every load fired is cataloged through this rifle) I know.... I know ......Very anal but it is true! So for a 243 with an eroded throat... What are the options...Rechamber, Rebore or Rechamber to something exotic? Guess what?,,,, I only want to shoot cast in it now!

[fatnhappy]

sell it to me? I wouldn't mind a tang safety action for a .338 fed build.

I'd probably rebore it to 7-08 or .308 if I was in your shoes. If it's a standard contour there should be plenty of meat in the barrel for a rebore.

[Jupiter7]

Perfect candidate for .358 Winchester rebore.

[RickinTN]

I'm thinking a re-bore to a larger cartridge of your choice would probably be the best bet and the most bang for the buck. It would probably make a nice 338 Federal or 358 Winchester.
Rick

[Scharfschuetze]

Out of curiosity, how many rounds did you fire and did you keep track of how far the lead eroded forward? I'd be interested in comparing those numbers with the 30 calibre match barrels that I've burnt out.

As for the rebore, do you like the 243 Winchester and continue to have need for one? If so, perhaps a new barrel in that calibre might be the solution.

[Piedmont]

First choice for me would be .358 Win rebore and second choice .308 Win rebore with a slow twist.

[richhodg66]

Without having the dimensions of each in front of me, could it be rechambered to 6mm Remington? Better cartridge than the .243 anyway.

I ran across a Pre 64 Model 70 in 6mmx.284 a few years ago that started life as a .243 and I always figured a shot out throat was the reason why. If a set of dies had come with the rifle, I'd have probably bought it. That conversion would obviously require modifications to the magazine rails.

[rmcc]

Take to gunsmith, take barrel off, turn about .020" off or however much it takes to get past erosion. Then re-cut chamber with finishing 243 reamer. Second choice rechamber to 6mm Rem.

[HeavyMetal]

Simplest solution: set back barrel and run a 243 reamer back in and start over.

The OP advised this is a 77V heavy Barrel from the 1980's so way lots of material in the barrel but action length will limit cartridge choice if the OP wants a change.

The OP also advised he'd like the new caliber to be cast friendly, so the 358 win sure gets a big push here, he may also consider a couple orphan Remington rounds, the 30 and 32 remingtons, which were rimless version of the 30-30 and 32 win special.

Both of those handle cast very well!

If he wants to get a little wierd how about 7.62x39 pretty much 30-30 ballistics so it should be cast friendly.

Hope the OP keeps us in the loop on this I'd like to know which way he goes and how it works out.

[JWFilips]

Out of curiosity, how many rounds did you fire and did you keep track of how far the lead eroded forward? I'd be interested in comparing those numbers with the 30 calibre match barrels that I've burnt out.

As for the rebore, do you like the 243 Winchester and continue to have need for one? If so, perhaps a new barrel in that calibre might be the solution.

I have to pull my log off the shelf but if I remember it is just over the 4000 mark No I don't believe if I did measure it. I know I shot a lot of 70gr ( & 60 gr pills) at a fast of velocity as I could..... I was young & crazy & never thought of the concequences. Ruined a very nice rifle.

As far as rebore to something new or a new barrel not sure which would cost less.

[Three44s]

If you have 4000 through yours and lots of hot fast ones ............. I am "set for life"!

I acquired a new (then) Liberty of the same persuasion and it may has less than 300 rounds and I was young but did not have my "throttle" wired open.

My load then was the Hdy 75 HP, Rem case, Rem 9 1/2 and IMR 4350 @ 44.8 gr.

I had folks in the know jazz me why I did not throttle up? Well, when it is shooting three @ 100 @ .270" ............ What's not to like?

My rifle was bought expressly for 'otes ...... we raise cattle .......... when I shot a grey digger with it ....... it was for zero confirmation and to get some starch in my back bone and "kill those 'otes" ....... (If I missed, it was NOT the rifle).

I never could bear to use this Liberty as a daily ranch rifle ........ I found cheaper less special irons to serve that task.

And yes, I still have it. The only thing touched on it is the trigger. A local well respected Smith brought it down to "2 pounds" at my insistence. I scaled it recently and my tool calls it at a consistent ..... 1.5#

I have trampled on your thread too much already .... my apologies ......... I should tell just how I came to buy my .243 77V but on another thread one of these days.

Best regards and good luck figuring out what you want next for your rifle!

Three 44s

[John Allen]

A 358 rebore would be pretty cool. I think the 35 cal in rifles with cast is about the best size for almost all shooting.

[joesig]

I have a 77V in .358W. I'll admit I was disappointed when I swapped a .243 77V for it to find it wasn't an original 358 77RS. My intention at the time was to find a 77 to rebarrel to 7MM BR (22-250 mag and follower). The person I swapped with wanted a varmint gun but I bought the 243 before he could. Makes me wonder the history of how a V was converted to 358 and then back again, kind of.

The 358 in a V barrel is a nice paper killer as the weight makes your shoulder happier but a V isn't something I'd enjoy stomping around in the woods with.

Exotic? 375 Whisper.

[country gent]

My Hart barreled 243 has 2500 rds and is done for mid to long range work, 200 yds it still does okay this was a Stainless barrel with 1-7 twist for heavy vlds (105-115s) Its a 26: barrel right now. Looking in it from the breech with a Hawkeye bore scope the errosion showsheavy for 2" and almost another 2" ahead of that. I would hve to take 3"-4" off to get rid of this. If you can borrow one look in it with a bore scope before deciding on a path to take. SOme gunsmiths dont like reaming out errosion as it can be hard on the reamer. I have seen M1As with errosion at the gas port. USGI 380 surpluss powder was known to burn out the center of the barrels more. Sectioned several fried barrel 6" ahead of the chamber and 1" either side of the gas port. On the barrel with USGI 380 the ports edges were burnt to a radioused edge maybe .030 or so. And errosion was showing. This was a 308 barrel with 4500 rounds thru it. All USGI 380. Buddies 6X284 long range gun went around 1500 rds when it died. Alot depends on accuracy level thats acceptable to you and what you want to do. A rebarrel or rebore to another cartridge is an option. Depending on what the barrel actually looks like inside a set back and rechamber of an 1" or so also could work. Keep in mind it could go back to ruger for rebarrel with another factory barrel also ( when I inquired about this for my Number1 in 220 swift I was told it would be $169.00 if thats all it needed) Give Ruger a call and talk to them.

[JWFilips]

Keep in mind it could go back to ruger for rebarrel with another factory barrel also ( when I inquired about this for my Number1 in 220 swift I was told it would be $169.00 if thats all it needed) Give Ruger a call and talk to them.

Wow that is very reasonable. Just wonder what the quality is like now as opposed to back then. I still can almost see myself in the deep blue polished 1980 Heavy V barrel's bluing! Boy, the things we took for "Granted" back then!

Well I'm not about to be killing chucks at 300 yd + anymore ( If I got down on the ground to shoot off my bipod I wouldn't get back up for quite some time):bigsmyl2:

But I'm figuring: Shooting off the bench at my local range I can manage....but I don't shoot "copper clads" anymore and would like to use cast.
It would be nice to take out my old friend again. Haven't pulled the trigger on it since the summer of 1989 ( took a PA "gundzsow" at 300 paces...and old school you know...... No meat goes wasted! Cooked him up!!!:razz:

P.S. Love to see if I can locate one of those borescopes! Would love to see what my crazy goals back then really did.
Got to pull my records book off the library shelf to read the particulars.... I'm sure my loads based on this day and age would be forbidden.
I know I toyed with the 4000fps mark using Sierra 60 grainers 5 shot groups all touched at 200 yds. My loading bench shelves are still loaded with those little green cardboard boxes full of those crazy pills!

[JWFilips]

Just throwing this out there....... How bad do you guys think it would do with "Light Cast Loads" seeing that the throat is burnt?

Since I have everything I need to reload for it ( except some alloy boolits and an expander) That could be the cheapest way out for "Old Friends" to get re-aquainted! What do you think?

[country gent]

Alot will depend on how far the damage goes and how "burnt" it is. While some what close ( Im in Northwest ohio) It would be the better part of a days drive to use my hawkeye. My 243 shows almost no rifling left just ahead of the throat. And errosion 4"-6" a head of chamber. When new this pre 64 model 70 with tight necked 243 chamber would hold sub X ring at 1000 yds, Now its leaking into the mid 10 ring occassionaly. If things looked right setting back and a chamber with appropriate throat for cast boolits could be cut. Ruger will only give you there factory chamber

[JWFilips]

Alot will depend on how far the damage goes and how "burnt" it is. While some what close ( Im in Northwest ohio) It would be the better part of a days drive to use my hawkeye. My 243 shows almost no rifling left just ahead of the throat. And errosion 4"-6" a head of chamber. When new this pre 64 model 70 with tight necked 243 chamber would hold sub X ring at 1000 yds, Now its leaking into the mid 10 ring occassionaly. If things looked right setting back and a chamber with appropriate throat for cast boolits could be cut. Ruger will only give you there factory chamber

Like a colonoscopy ..... what you don't know can't hurt you ( Yeah! Right) I rather not see the damage I have done! I'm thinking of taking it out just to try. I did this with my .223 Rem Bolt gun and was impressed. Just have to locate some .243 cast boolits to try it out! Guess I should go do some slugging!

[JHeath]

Perfect candidate for .358 Winchester rebore.

That's what I was thinking. Everybody say such good things about JES reboring that I'll add this:

http://www.35caliber.com

His customers always sound so satisfied that I'll go out looking for a clapped-out rifle to have him rebore.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have to pull my log off the shelf but if I remember it is just over the 4000 mark No I don't believe if I did measure it. I know I shot a lot of 70gr ( & 60 gr pills) at a fast of velocity as I could..... I was young & crazy & never thought of the concequences. Ruined a very nice rifle.

As far as rebore to something new or a new barrel not sure which would cost less.

4,000 rounds has been the average life of 7.62/308 match barrels for me. The 243 has a reputation for burning up throats much faster when used for varmints or as a match rifle cartridge, so you really got your money's worth out of that barrel.

[JWFilips]

Pulled the old girl out of storage today & cleaned her up. She sure is pretty! Also pulled down my journal and read every page....Gee I guess I was a stickler back then Such detail on my loads!!! I can't believe I had that patience to record it all in such detail.

Anyway after reading that note book it appears that 4000 rounds were loaded but not totally shot! Once an accurate load was developed and tested a few times I would load a bunch of boxes & store away. So Now the quest to find all the loaded rounds. Then I will learn the truth about how many down the pipe.

Now that she is out ...cleaned & ready to go I think I'm going to take her out again after 25 years , once I get to my .243 loaded stash.

I may posting a WTB for some .243 boolits! What the heck how bad could it be....I did the same with my .223 and shot 1" groups with cast boolits my first outing ( but at 50 yds)

[jonas302]

Well was it even that bad with high speed jacketed at the end?

[JWFilips]

Well was it even that bad with high speed jacketed at the end?
Good Point: No It never got bad...Just knew it wasn't good to shoot heavier bullets in it if the throat was errorded!

I'm thinkin it will still shoot sub Min Groups! But I don't know I have to try it out again Not that she is ready to shoot....but What I really need to know is if I can shoot light cast boolit loads in it the way the bore is!

[kens]

If .243 is a 6mm-'08, then why not rechamber it to a 6mmx57??
That would be a 6mm Rem would it not?

[GabbyM]

re barrel with a 12 twist 243. My original Ruger M77-VT was a 12" twist but I shot it way out before having a 6mm boolit mold.
It's hanging on my shed wall and my .245" cast won't fill it's burned out bore.

You've gone way longer on a 243 barrel than I ever did. Never got over 1,000 rounds from a prairie dog shooter and went through a near fresh barrel once on a single walk about. Rapid fire will make short order of a 243 Win. To say the least.
My last set of barrels are in like new condition or better after several years. Sine I discovered cast boolits in rifles and started doing my 100 yard fun shooting near exclusively with cast bullets. After trying out a few fast rifle powders in the 243 AI I discovered 11.0 grains of Unique under my 84 grain bullets shot more consistent and a tad more accurate than the rifle powders. Report is a crack instead of a boom. Barrel takes IIRC over a dozen rapid fire rounds to even get hot. From my experience and that of several others. We have found the over bore size of the 243 case and the relatively light weight slugs. Make the 243 an ideal cast bullet launcher when using shotgun powders. Shot to shot consistency is high since powder position is not a huge issue. I actually have better E.S recorded for my Unique loads and even my reduced RL 7 loads in 243 AI than I do with full power loads. Down side of the rifle powders are. Dirty burn, large powder charges =$, No better to slightly less accuracy than Unique. The Unique charge yields enough pressure to seal case mouth to keep action clean. Powder burns very clean at these pressures. Leaves a shinny bore and shinny spent cases. My ten pound varmint rifle. From a heavy bench with front rest and rear owl ear bag. Sighting through a 20X premium scope. 35 year old Leopold Gold Ring. Turns in .875” groups at 100 yards all day long in up to 5mph wind. Barrel is an economy E.R. Shaw heavy sporter .675” at muzzle of 26” length. Rifle is a stainless steel Ruger M77-VT. Barrel is Chrome Molly blued with cold blue by Brownells Oxpho blue. Now for those of you who’ve not had the pleasure. A .875” ten shot group. Is a one hole group with maybe one hole outside the fat hole. That’s the good ones. Average is one big hole. This with a quarter inch bullet not a 30 caliber. My 243AI is a 100 yard squirrel or 200 yard coyote rifle. With cast boolits.
Now for the usefulness aspect. Here in Illinois. Regulations say you must be minimum 300 yards from a dwelling to take a shot without home owners permission. I BTW agree with this law. Now the game is to take your legal shot at 400 and over without to much rattling of windows which leads to calling of 911 or the game wardens number they have on speed dial. I know from experience a shotgun at half mile upwind sounds like it’s fifty yards away when you are awakened at 6 am in the morning. M 243 is similar to report of a 22 rim fire magnum. 11.0 gains of Unique is a tad more boom but decibels is similar when you have a 26” barrel to reduce muzzle pressure. On the other hand. My 222 Rem with 24 inch barrel shoots 2,400 fps boolits but the report is about the same as a full house AR-15.
Also he shooting range at Lake Sara near Effingham points towards the lake. I’ve spent time working at homes on the lake. Boomers from the range echo very loud across the lake. I don’t think they’d even hear my cast boolit rifles even in 30-06. 11.0 grains of Unique in my 243 for sure would not echo through the trees. My two favorite cast boolit shooters are my 243 AI and my 222 Rem. My favorite deliver the can of whoop is my 30-06. My Winchester 94 in 30-30 fits in someplace. I should of taken it to Arizona last month so I’d not have ended up coyote hunting with my 38 revolver.
At any rate: This old boy rates the 243 Win with 1:10” twist a great boolit shooter. Not a deer rifle by any means but plenty of gun for 100 and beyond paper targets and fifty pound varmints. Barrels with slower twit would allow higher velocity.

[Screwbolts]

If .243 is a 6mm-'08, then why not rechamber it to a 6mmx57??
That would be a 6mm Rem would it not?

Technically, NO, it would not be a 6mm Rem and 6x57 are different cartridges, the 6mm is/was formed from 257 Roberts cases and the shoulder angle is different, along with other differences. No it would not be a, 244 or 6mm Remington. But yes, it would move the lead to a different section of barrel.

Ken

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. If the throat is that eroded im sure the rest of the barrel has some wear. Id just buck up and do a new barrel. Reboring isn't much cheaper and if you rebore your going bigger and that's going to take you out of the varmint category anyway. Id check with ruger. Try to keep the old girl like it was the day you brought it home all excited. I just paid a smith 350 for a rebarrel and though I was getting away real cheap so if ruger will do it for under 200 like the other poster said that's a deal!!

[JWFilips]

Well with the great help from two members here I was able to get the old girl out shooting after 28 years.
I shot two loadings one was a custom maker ( Unknown) gas checked boolit weighed in at 79 grains & .244"Dia
and a NOE 75 Grain FP @ .245" gas checked weighing in at 74 grains.
Cold day at 30 deg not much wind But had a problem with sun glare from the late day sun in my scope ( almost shooting directly in to it) My loads were dipper dropped 10.1 grains of Alliant Unique, Range was 50 yards. The circle bullseye is 1/2 " Lube was the providers choice ..Both had no leading in 15 rounds each
First 15 were provided by "altheating" they were the NOE 75 grain offering
127991
I was fighting the glare in the scope so I think I could have held better here.

The Second was the unknown maker 80 grain boolit (@79 Gr weight with GC) from "dtknowles"
At this point the sun was behind clouds and I could hold better. However I split one case neck as noted
127998

Now please note I don't have proper Cast Bullet tools for loading .243 yet so everything I have done was gerryrigged to just get out there. all in all I say I see some promise. Thank You to two great members of this Forum who went out of their way to help an old guy shoot one of his guns after 28 years. There is a great family we have here on the Cast boolit forum!

[Motor]

Wow that is very reasonable. Just wonder what the quality is like now as opposed to back then. I still can almost see myself in the deep blue polished 1980 Heavy V barrel's bluing! Boy, the things we took for "Granted" back then!

Well I'm not about to be killing chucks at 300 yd + anymore ( If I got down on the ground to shoot off my bipod I wouldn't get back up for quite some time):bigsmyl2:

But I'm figuring: Shooting off the bench at my local range I can manage....but I don't shoot "copper clads" anymore and would like to use cast.
It would be nice to take out my old friend again. Haven't pulled the trigger on it since the summer of 1989 ( took a PA "gundzsow" at 300 paces...and old school you know...... No meat goes wasted! Cooked him up!!!:razz:

P.S. Love to see if I can locate one of those borescopes! Would love to see what my crazy goals back then really did.
Got to pull my records book off the library shelf to read the particulars.... I'm sure my loads based on this day and age would be forbidden.
I know I toyed with the 4000fps mark using Sierra 60 grainers 5 shot groups all touched at 200 yds. My loading bench shelves are still loaded with those little green cardboard boxes full of those crazy pills!

I'll admit its been a while back but Ruger rebarreled my .280 Rem M77V for $125 plus reblued all the associated parts. I was pi**ed at myself for not sending the rings too. I didn't send the floor plate and trigger gaurd either. They sent it back to me with new ones, no extra charge.

Motor

[Screwbolts]

Good Shooting JWFilips, I have to chuckle, you see, those NOE boolitz are falling from my 5 cav mold and are being pushed threw my sizer die in "Altheatings" star. He is a trusted friend or he would not be running alloy threw one of my molds and vice versa. That mold has cast "Thousands" of Boolitz. Your load is good, my 6mm has told me it really likes a charge of 20gr of surplus WC844 (H335) with them boolitz. My son's 788 in 6mm agrees with mine.

It brings a smile to my face to see them boolitz being shot from your rifle.

Ken

[JWFilips]

Ken,
I heard you had a hand in there somewhere! I think I'm going to love shooting my 243 with cast. Now to start building up cast loading tools for it!
I think I can get it to shoot better once I get proper neck dies and neck expander and Develop some loads! Oh Yeah, and wait until the weather gets warmer

[quack1]

Just throwing this out there....... How bad do you guys think it would do with "Light Cast Loads" seeing that the throat is burnt?

Since I have everything I need to reload for it ( except some alloy boolits and an expander) That could be the cheapest way out for "Old Friends" to get re-aquainted! What do you think?

Try it with cast and see, you might be surprised. I have a pre-64 model 70 varmint 243 that has about the first 4" of the bore that looks like 240 grit sandpaper. Shoots Lyman 245496 just fine, 1" give or take a little, at 100 yards. I expected the burnt section would pick up lead, but it doesn't.

I see you already tried it, guess I should read a thread clear to the end before replying.

[JWFilips]

I Have : See post #28

[TXGunNut]

Looks like you need to find another rifle to build a .358 from.

[JWFilips]

Looks like you need to find another rifle to build a .358 from.
Yeah! I think I'm going to have fun with the old girl the way she is! I'm going to keep her!

[altheating]

Jim, have you shot it anymore since we last chatted?

[JWFilips]

Jim, have you shot it anymore since we last chatted?
No.... Ken has me working on some loading Issues! You guys are GREAT!