Double Charging

[brad925]

It seems this is quite the problem and it shouldn't be. It should never happen on a progressive press so I am assuming its happening on a single stage and the culprit is the loading block. Putting the cases in the loading block then holding it under the powder measure and loading the cases or using a funnel and loading all the cases first then seating a bullet is a no no IMHO! I have never double charged a case in my 30 years of reloading because I charge then seat a bullet and crimp it before it goes in the loading block. No forgetting which case I charged last eliminating a double charge. Just about as fast as the other way and a lot safer IMO.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

As a rule i always use a flashlight to look in my cases that are in my loading blocks. never had a Double Charge
but missed putting powder in one. once scared the hell out of me the what if i had a Double Charge

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I use a progressive and advance the shell plate after cycling the handle and have never had a double charge.

I did run into trouble charging on the Dillon progressive loading neck resized .45 Colt cases. If the case wouldn't line up into the sizer die stopping the stroke of the handle half way, I'd drop the handle slightly, push the case to be sized into the shell plate and finish the stroke by running it again. It just so happens that on the Dillon 550B the point where the powder bar begins to cycle is right where the mouth of the .45 Colt case engages the sizer die when it's backed out for neck resizing. I was getting an occasional 1/3 over charged case.

The thing is when one places a boolit on the charged case one has to look to place the boolit. The over charge is noticed when one looks, fortunately I never fired an overcharge.

Now with the .45 Colt I resize (neck) and prime on a single stage and run my cases into the Dillon progressive beginning at the charging station. This really works well with me for the .45 Colt.

[robertbank]

I have had two double charges, both on a Dillon 550B and both loading .45acp cartridges. After the 2nd one I traced the problem to how I was setting the powder charge. I made some changes and have not had any further instances. I load about 10 - 15 thousand rounds per year and have been doing the rate of volume for the past 15 years. Mostly handgun on my 550B. It is easy to get into a rhythm that sets you up for a bad outcome. I did.and fortunately came away unscathed as did my pistol. 10.2 gr of 231 in a 45acp case can get your heart going in a hurry, be careful and never think you are being to careful or you can never make a mistake. Murphy lives.

Take Care

Bob

[dragon813gt]

Had a double charge followed by no charge. Luckily it was w/ a light load of W231 in a 38 special case being fired out of a Marlin 1894C. No damage done, just a stuck bullet. After that I learned to pay attention to the counter on the Chargemaster. If it doesn't equal what I loaded I have a problem and everything gets pulled apart.

[Char-Gar]

It seems this is quite the problem and it shouldn't be. It should never happen on a progressive press so I am assuming its happening on a single stage and the culprit is the loading block. Putting the cases in the loading block then holding it under the powder measure and loading the cases or using a funnel and loading all the cases first then seating a bullet is a no no IMHO! I have never double charged a case in my 30 years of reloading because I charge then seat a bullet and crimp it before it goes in the loading block. No forgetting which case I charged last eliminating a double charge. Just about as fast as the other way and a lot safer IMO.

Most double charges take place on with a progressive press, where the operator allows his mind to wander a bit.

Double charges do take place on single stage presses, where the operator does not use property safety steps, such as you do.

I have been loading for 55 years and have had one double charge. That was in 1994 when I decided to "get with the program" and buy a progressive press. The press was quickly sold and I have returned to my old ways.

Double charges are always operator error, but are much more common these days with the popularity of progressive reloading machine. Our equipment is much more sophisticated these days, but our minds and attention spans have not kept up.

[robertbank]

Charles I think the first step to a double charge is convincing yourself you will never have one. Murphy lives. I do agree a single stage is less likely to generate a double charge but for the amount of ammo I reload it just is not feasible to do so. You pay your money and take your chances.

Take Care

Bob

[BCRider]

It can happen easily on a progressive. If something goes wrong on any one station that requires stopping and clearing the issue it's important to pay attention over how the issue is handled so that the casing at the powder charging station doesn't see a second drop.

In fact I'd say it's easier to happen on a progressive than on a single stage.

[BruceB]

AMEN to BCRider's post.

If anything occurs which requires breaking the routine cycling of my 550, my SOP is to immediately REMOVE all cases from the press, solve the difficulty, and then start the cycle all over again.

This routine involves DUMPING the powder from any charged case. So far,(twenty years or more) it's been working ....

[hp246]

I've never had a double charge either. I had many with no powder dropped in a Lee Pro 1000. I replaced it with a Dillon 550. I do use either a RCBS or Hornady powder check die. The powder check die has come in handy a couple of times when the powder drop was light. I'm able to pull that case off line immediately.

[44man]

I use the loading block and a light to check. but I pay close attention to what case comes next. My friend blew a gun loading one at a time. A small distraction made him forget powder before seating. Shot the dud and another behind a stuck boolit.
but I don't use a few grains of Bullseye either.

[Artful]

First, my routine is to always pick a powder that a double charge will overflow the case. So I have never had a double charge get through my Dillon or Lee Turret or any single stage press.

[w5pv]

I turn all of my cases primer up,get one and charge it with powder after weighing the powder.Then return it to the loading block and repeat until all the cases are charged.Take a flashlight and inspect for no carges and double charges and then re-inspect just to make sure before I seat the boolit.I have never had an over charge and one sqibb that I caught before another round was fired,Been reloading since 1960 for the most part a few times when I was in the Army I didn't but would reload when I got home on a pass or leave.

[salvadore]

I haven't been reloading as long as some of the other geezers in here, have been reloading since '68. I have loaded 2 or 3 no charges, but not for than the last 30 years. Imho the type of press doesn't make any difference as much as the deadly brain fart.

[pworley1]

It is not always possible, but I try to prevent a double charge by using a powder and charge combination that will not permit a double charge. If the case will not hold a double charge then you can not have one.

[bangerjim]

I first mesure the powder, then pour it into the case, then put a boolit in it, and finally place it in the loading block to finally later seat all 50 of them.

Never had a double charge.....ever.......pretty darn near impossible doing it this way.

banger

[rintinglen]

AMEN to BCRider's post.

If anything occurs which requires breaking the routine cycling of my 550, my SOP is to immediately REMOVE all cases from the press, solve the difficulty, and then start the cycle all over again.

This routine involves DUMPING the powder from any charged case. So far,(twenty years or more) it's been working ....

My practice exactly. If the phone rings, the cat jumps onto the bench, your brother in law pops in to borrow the lawn mower or what ever, STOP. CLEAR THE PRESS OF ANY CHARGED CASES AND DUMP THEM. It will add a moment or two to the time spent loading, but the savings in time do not outweigh the potential costs if a double charge gets thrown and goes past.

Another thing I recommend is that initially, when learning to use a progressive press, select a powder that will fill over half the case.. A double charge becomes quickly evident when you can't fit a boolit in the case. Once you have loaded a few hundred cases and learned the operation of the machine, then the Bullseyes, Titegroups, HP 38's et al can join the party.

[str8wal]

I don't charge cases in a loading block. I take each case from the block to the Lyman 55 and then to the press for the bullet. Same routine every time, never had a double.

[MrWolf]

When I am reloading on my Dillon 550b, I turn everything off so there are no distractions. As others said, if a distraction stop everything and clear the press. I also use the light from Inline, it helps.

[waco]

I had a double charge a few years ago. I was loading on my Dillon 550. I was loading 44mag using 429421 boolits. Thank God I was loading a real light charge of Unique, 7.0gr. The 14gr load was only one grain over max according to my Lyman 49th manual.
It still required me to remove the cylinder from my Blackhawk and remove the brass with a brass punch. It came out very easily and no damage was done to the gun or me. Thank the good Lord it was not my usual 10gr of Unique under that boolit....

I REALLY pay close attention now when something goes wrong on the Dillon. It's much easier to have a mistake on a progressive than people think. I had thirteen years reloading on that machine at the time this happened. My one and only mistake to date. It scares me to think what could have happened.....
Waco

[BD]

IMHO double charges are more common on progressive presses. Typically, a small charge of flake powder doesn't drop, call it "bridging" or whatever you like, but the powder stays in the charge bar, or drop bushing where it is joined by the next charge as the press is cycled. One case gets none, and the next case gets two. If you don't notice it happening, and seat a boolit on both of them, trouble may ensue. If you are extremely unlucky, or very very organized, you could load the gun with a squib, sticking a boolit in the bore, followed immediately by a double charge. This can cause BIG TROUBLE. It could cost you a gun, or an eye.

[MtGun44]

I had my first and only double charge with my Dillon 450, back when the machine
was entirely manual. Manual primer feed and manual powder dump, manual case
advance. Get distracted and 'lose you place' and then it happens.

I now look into the case and see the powder before the boolit is set in place each
time. It has been about 30 years or so since my one double charge, and I am
very vigilant against another one. Also, the powder and primer are automated,
harder to double charge, but still possible.

With single stage press, I use loading block, charge the whole block at ONE pass,
then set it down and inspect each case with a bright light to double check. Then
seat a boolit on each case, triple checking visually for powder and apparent proper
quantity as I set the boolit on the case, for the final check.

No TV, or noise other than music ever allowed at my reloading bench, distractions
are not wanted.

Bill

[odfairfaxsub]

I don't know exactly what happened as far as exact details but gp100 38 specials.... Top data Speer manual for unique.

shoot position one boom, position two on the cylinder boom, position 3? Varrrroooooooom!!!!

i look back at my dad and was like what was that all about. He said that deff sounded different. My guess and the only way to explain that maybe a double charge? I went with that and said well thank dear Jesus I was shooting a ruger and not a uberti or some taurus self defense job.


only time that happened. Forgot powder once or twice.

[jcren]

+1 on no distractions! I once got sidetracked by the kids needing help with homework while loading my wife's 38spl plinking loads and came back and double charged one. Anyone ever touch off 7.6 grains of bullseye in a snub? Thank goodness I was the one on the trigger, I would never have lived that down!

[Tom W.]

I had a distraction last Saturday. I use a single stage press and was loading some .45 acp rounds and just didn't remember if I dumped one or two measures of powder before I seated the bullet. That round was removed from the mix and disassembled.

[big bore 99]

I drop a marked piece of wooden dowel in every case before seating bullet.

[Petrol & Powder]

Pay attention to what you are doing !

Human brains do not handle multi-tasking well. With the exception of things like walking and talking or playing piano, our brains don't really handle two tasks simultaneously. We switch back and forth between multiple tasks. Switching back and forth from drinking coffee and reading the newspaper isn't that dangerous at the kitchen table; doing it while landing a plane is a different situation.


If you devote your full attention to the task at hand you will have no problems. If you can't do that - don't reload!

I've used a Dillon 550 for many years with no problems. Here's a tip for those rare times when you do have to stop during a session. Always leave the ram in the fully raised position (all shell casings fully inserted into the dies with the operating handle in the fully lowered position) If you stop the cycle in that position you can return to the process and instantly know where you were.

When using a single stage press and loading blocks, strict adherence to procedure and devotion to the task at hand will serve you well.


At the risk of sounding like that crazy old man yelling "get off my lawn"....I am constantly baffled by the way people go through life.

[tazman]

I don't use a single stage or progessive to load my pistol/revolver rounds. I use an auto indexing turret to load my pistol cartridges. From a safety standpoint it is the best system out there.
You are doing a single operation with any given stroke of the handle so you don't need to watch 5 or more stations at once for problems. Each case is charged and has the boolit seated before it leaves the press so there can be no mix ups as to whether the case was charged. The only possible failure is if the powder measure worked properly. My press is set with a light so I can see into the case(at least on shorter cases) and tell instantly if there is powder in there. I weigh every 10th charge to make sure there is no problem with the powder measure.
I always place the loaded rounds in a loading block as I finish them so if by some chance there is a problem with the measure(it happened once) I don't have to pull more than 10 cases apart to get rid of possible failures.
Not saying this is the best way. It is just the best way for me.

[shoot-n-lead]

Rocky Raab said that the overwhelming majority of double charges happen because of loading out of a loading block...I tend to agree.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

As progressives are being criticized here I want to throw in the comment that I have loaded thousands and thousands of 9mm, 38 Special and .44 Special cartridges on my Dillon 550B with nary a problem. We had a guy blow up his Kimber with factory ammo and I found a 9mm factory cartridge sans a powder charge.

I've posted my issues with the .45 Colt cartridge and the progressive but want to say that with most of our cartridges a progressive is a great tool for reloading. My issues with the .45 Colt do not exhist if one full length resizes as is necessary when loading for a Ruger.

I wrote to Dave Skovill at Handloader magazine about my experience with the .45 Colt and my progressive and he said that's why he doesn't review progressives in his magazine. He said he uses a Redding T-7 and is almost as fast with it as with a progressive.

[lefty o]

i'd say skovil is talking out of his rear if he thinks he can load almost as fast on a T-7 as a good progressive. imo progressives are a great tool, but you can run into big problems fast if you dont pay attention to what you are doing.

[Love Life]

Reloading presses, powder funnels, etc are all inanimate objects that require operator input to do whatever they do. Doesn't matter whether it is a single stage, turret, or progressive. They will do exactly what you tell them to do. Tell them to load good and safe ammo and they will. Tell them to double charge, and they will.

[Drdarrin]

My guess is that there are not as many double charges as one might think. The recurring theme I take from most of the above comments is to have a process and follow it religiously.

Charging one round at a time or an entire loading block works as long as you have a plan to handle the inevitable interruptions that occur. I prefer the block method myself and have a light mounted over my bench so that I can visually check the amount of powder in every case before proceeding to the next step. I'm not just checking for double charges, which are easy to see. I'm checking for short charges and no charges too.

I have a progressive too and did have issues with it while learning its idiosyncrasies. I've had one no charge on it.

[trapper9260]

For me what I do is after I prime a case I flip it up side down ,after I done prime them I take each case and load the powder and then I get them all charge and then load the boolit.That way for how I do it I know if the case have powder or not.Yes it is best to not to have your mind else where.I use a single stag and t press.

[SeabeeMan]

I could see it happening on a progressive easily, especially if upon encountering a stoppage, one tries to "salvage" the partially finished rounds already in the shell plate and only clear the issue. Depending on the model, this might involve only partially lowering the handle so as to avoid advancing the plate and getting out of sync with the remaining rounds.

My policy is to clear everything out of the shell plate if there is any sort of issue. Anything that has powder in it gets dumped and the 3 or 4 with primers get set aside. Those get finished one at a time from the appropriate starting point in the rotation.

[wdr2]

I use a Dillon 550B for all my handgun ammo with a light supplied by inline fabrication. I look into every case at the seating stage to verify the powder charge. While this method does not catch a 1-2gr variance, an empty case or double charge is certainly visible. I also use an extra baffle from UniqueTek in the measure which is always at least 1/3 full of powder to reduce the chance of powder bridging. Paying attention is the key. And, as other have discussed, I remove every case if I stop the loading process for any reason.

A good friend blew up his fine Ruger Bisley 45 Colt. He was using a loading block, single stage press, and likely had a double charge of Universal. Pieces of metal flying past his ear really got his attention. Ruger replaced the gun at about 1/3 the price of a new one. Over his loading bench, he now has this photo:

125643

[shoot-n-lead]

Reloading presses, powder funnels, etc are all inanimate objects that require operator input to do whatever they do. Doesn't matter whether it is a single stage, turret, or progressive. They will do exactly what you tell them to do. Tell them to load good and safe ammo and they will. Tell them to double charge, and they will.

We are not blaming the equipment...the problem is the PROCESS that allows the highest probability of human error,

[JimA]

Pay attention to what you are doing !

If you devote your full attention to the task at hand you will have no problems. If you can't do that - don't reload!



That just about says it all!

[ReloaderFred]

As near as I can calculate, I've loaded well over 800,000 rounds of ammunition in 31 calibers in the last 51 years of reloading. I've never had a double charge that I didn't catch, but in the biggest match in the world in one of my favorite shooting sports, I had my first squib load two years ago and it cost me 9 rounds. Since then, I've added a light strip to my progressive press and an RCBS Lockout die. The light strip makes it easier to see in the case and the Lockout die just adds another layer of protection to the process.

I load on three single stage presses and two progressive presses, and the most important thing is the person working the handle and the amount of attention being paid to the process.

I've seen other shooters have many squibs, and some double and triple charges, along with several guns blown up. It all boils down to operator error, plain and simple.

There is one press that is notorious for producing squib loads, but for fear of starting another war, I won't mention the name, but it's a manual indexing progressive, which requires another operation to turn the shell plate. It seems this one additional action results in more squibs, and possibly double charges, than an auto-indexing progressive press does. At least that's been my observation in the matches I participate in.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[odfairfaxsub]

Ruger is awesome!!! Glad they supported that guy in his mistake on that vaquero. Just used h110 to load up some straight wall casings and I can see how one is less likely to make a mistake w those powders comp to bullseye or unique.

[smorin2]

I turn all of my cases primer up,get one and charge it with powder after weighing the powder.Then return it to the loading block and repeat until all the cases are charged.Take a flashlight and inspect for no carges and double charges and then re-inspect just to make sure before I seat the boolit.I have never had an over charge and one sqibb that I caught before another round was fired,Been reloading since 1960 for the most part a few times when I was in the Army I didn't but would reload when I got home on a pass or leave.


This is how i do it also,on a Redding single stage press.I concur with the others who also have no distractions and stay alert.This is a great hobby but as with many things in life it will bite you if you let your guard down.

[BenW]

I load on a single stage. I'll do each stage in a batch. When sizing and priming, i throw the cases into a small plastic bin. I change out to the belling die (pistol loads) and bell until the first bin is empty, throwing all belled cases into a second bin. Only then do i use a loading block. The belled case goes from the bin, to the powder throw, into the block and checking every 5, 10, or 25 rounds (every round at first, then increasing the count as i get more consecutive consistent throws). Once i have charged a full block, i check with a light to compare powder levels. Then i finger seat a bullet in each case and move to seat.

Only charged rounds stay in the loading block, and only checked levels get a bullet.

-Ben

[rogerstg]

I think the problem can happen with non indexing progressives. On my Dillon SDB, the indexing engages just before the powder drops. You'd have to remove the case from the third station and put it back in the second station to double the load.

[Mohillbilly]

I use the powder load density ( 50+% ) and watch the powder bar operate , as well as looking at the powder level before putting a projo on . I use a 550b and clear the powder and seat stations when ever something distracts me , or is not right . But , IF I had made a mistake , some how , the double charge would have ran over and made a mess . I have had only 1 squib because I made a dumbie round as a seating guide with a live primer , and I accidentally mix it with live rounds . I no longer make dummies with live or unstruck primers .

[snoopy]

Pay attention, no distractions. I use a single stage press and 2 blocks, primers up in one, charge and move to the other and then check. New to it here, but my wife shoots my loads also, and heaven forbid if I hurt her that would be bad.... but if I ruined her model 19... well, I would probably have to go to Siberia.

[Zouave 58]

Correctly setting the powder charge when you do not measure each load is critically important. Fifteen years ago I had a new electronic scale that did not calibrate. I was attempting to load a charge of 8.5 Unique in 45 colt but was actually throwing 13.2. Eyeballing the powder column in that big case did not seem out of order. I loaded 50 rounds in a Dillon 550B and weighed the charge at the first, 25 and 50 rounds. I fired about 24 rounds from the batch through a Ruger Blackhawk with no problem or pressure signs. When I switched to a Single Action clone the first shot blew the top center chamber and sympathetically discharged the chambers at 10 and 1 o'clock. The top strap and 1/2 the cylinder disappeared and I later found part of the top strap embedded in the roof structure of the shooting range. I was not injured. Later, I broke down a number of the remaining loaded rounds and measured each load on the electronic scale and found them all to indicate to be 1 tenth +/- of 8.5. On a whim I checked a load on a balance beam scale and only then discovered the actual load was 13.6. I returned the scale to the manufacturer who agreed it was defective and replaced it to me with a correctly functioning unit, they also compensated me for the monetary value of the SAA clone. To this day I always double check the calibration of my electronic scales with a balance beam. I also check the the powder charge of every 25th round I load with my progressive loaders. I've gone back to measuring each load when I load rifle loads in my single stage press. One blow-up in a lifetime is enough. Dr. Murphy was right.

[tazman]

That is flat out scary, and a good reason to double check everything.

[44 Special]

If anything occurs which requires breaking the routine cycling of my 550, my SOP is to immediately REMOVE all cases from the press, solve the difficulty, and then start the cycle all over again.

This routine involves DUMPING the powder from any charged case. So far,(twenty years or more) it's been working ....

^^^^^^^^^^^^This.