44-40 mag?

[BUFFALOW RED]

so i got a pair of ruger vaquerios in 44-40
i was told that i could get a 44 mag cly for it & use the same barrel etc. one slugs out at .430, other one is .4295
so im thinking load up magnum rounds in 44-40 instead of changing out cly,s
so i found some recipes in an old reloading book that claims 2000+ fps out of a 44-40 with a lot of powder but it does not show the pressures developed seems worrysome with no posted pressures
any ideas or recipes my new lee book & online sites only shows low power loads probbly for the brass framed rifles

[Outpost75]

Depending when your Vaquero was made, the throats of the cylinder will be smaller than groove diameter, and the chamber necks also too tight to safely release a bullet large enough to fit the groove diameter of the. 44 Magnum barrels they used. You will need to have the cylinder rechambered, about a $100 job if you know a gunsmith with the right stuff. You will want the chamber necks enlarged to .447 and the cylinder throats to .4305 to load .430 bullets in Starline brass to fit your barrels.

It might be easier to get a .44 Magnum cylinder from Ruger.

The high velocity loads for the Winchester '92 developed about 25,000 cup and velocities were based on a 24" test barrel. You can get similar results with about 18.5 grains of #2400 powder and modern 180-200 grain bullets such as the Hornady XTPs, if they will fit your cylinder. Revolver velocity will be about 1250 fps.

[contender1]

Ruger won't build a cylinder for a gun that wasn't offered that way.
Also, if you have original (full sized) Vaquero's, it's possible to work, but I would not build any 44 mag loads to shoot in the mid-framed sized New Vaqueros.

[Outpost75]

Ruger won't build a cylinder for a gun that wasn't offered that way.
Also, if you have original (full sized) Vaquero's, it's possible to work, but I would not build any 44 mag loads to shoot in the mid-framed sized New Vaqueros.

Agree. Good info. My .44-40 Vaquero is the large frame, a 55- prefix made in 1994. Cylinder throats were. 426", chamber necks .444, but barrel groove diameter .430 so it wouldn't stay in a bucket until cylinder was rechambered.

[bob208]

you want a magnum by a magnum.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Agree. Good info. My .44-40 Vaquero is the large frame, a 55- prefix made in 1994. Cylinder throats were. 426", chamber necks .444, but barrel groove diameter .430 so it wouldn't stay in a bucket until cylinder was rechambered.


its an old model vaquero with the same (Cylinder throats were. 426"but barrel groove diameter .430) problem
not looking for a 44 mag magnum round just a hot safe load for the ruger in 44-40
currently i get best accury useing full load of BP & it shoots like a hot load

[StrawHat]

...currently i get best accury useing full load of BP & it shoots like a hot load...

Sounds like you have your recipe already. If it ain't broke...

Kevin

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a 44 Blackhawk that I found a second 4440 cylinder for. I fool with it once in a while with loads a bit over factory pressures but figure I have a 44 mag cylinder for heavy loads so why push the 4440. that and most 4440 brass is thinner and woudnt hold up anyway unless you had a custom tight chambered cylinder. By the way I did have my 4440 cylinder opened up for 430 bullets.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Sounds like you have your recipe already. If it ain't broke...

Kevin

well true BP is my favorite but for hunting or self defence one wants no smoke blocking the oponet being shot at

[StrawHat]

Lot's of us use only black powder for hunting. As for SD, not sure I'd carry a SA revolver but if that's your choice, okay.

[contender1]

Don't sneeze at a SA for self defense. I know of many folks who carry one for just that, myself included at times.

To the OP; Since you have a BP load that's good, why not try & duplicate it somewhat with smokeless powders?

[jim 44-40]

Vaquero which means cowboy not Dirty Harry!!!! Ruger manual for my 44-40 says ammunition use 44-40 regular and high speed ammunition.How fast is high speed I don't know.But I have shot 800 rounds in my 44-40 ruger and it is a fine handgun.

[Outpost75]

For good results in your Vaquero with over-sized .44 Magnum barrel you need to get the cylinder reamed to open up the chamber necks as well as the throats. Then you can use .430" bullets which will fit your .44 Magnum barrel and your .44-40 chambers will have safe clearance to load the "fatter" bullets.

John Taylor rechambered my cylinder.

125535125536125537

Here is a summary of my loads which "work"


Group 1 loads - safe in any .44-40 rifle or revolver:

200-grain (Accurate 43-200Q, wheeweights, .430")
15.4 grains #2400 1178 fps Marlin 1894S 20"
6.5 grains Bullseye 1142 fps Marlin 1894S 20"
5.0 grains Red Dot 894 fps Marlin 1894S 20" - Do Not Reduce
7.4 grains Red Dot 1203 fps Marlin 1894S 20" - Max.,Colts and link- locked levers
24.5 grains RL7 1359 fps Marlin 1894S 20", 901 fps Ruger 5-1/2" - old Hercules Data "should not” exceed SAAMI pressure and is believed safe in older guns.

Group 2 LOADS – Win. 92, Marlin 1894S and RUGERs only:

200-grain Remington JSP .427", Starline cases, Rem. 2-1/2 primers, OAL 1.60"
8.4 grains Bullseye 1264 fps Marlin 20", 1000 fps 5-1/2" Ruger

200-grain Hornady XTP .430", Starline cases, Rem.2-1/2 primers, OAL 1.60"
8.4 grains Bullseye 1197 fps Marlin 20", 1036 fps Ruger 5-1/2"

200-grain cast lead bullet (Accurate 43-200Q Wheelweights, .430", OAL 1.60")
7.2 grains Bullseye 1284 fps Marlin 20", 967 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
7.8 grains Red Dot 1248 fps Marlin 20", 1023 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
8.3 grains Red Dot 1317 fps Marlin 20", 1023 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
8.3 grains Red Dot 1317 fps Marlin 20", 1073 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
26 grains Alliant RL7 1420 fps Marlin 20", 1050 fps Ruger 5-1/2"

230-grain cast lead bullet, (Accurate 43-230G, wheelweights, .430", OAL 1.61")
8.3 grains Red Dot 1254 fps Marlin 20", 1027 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
24.5 grains Alliant RL7 1355 fps Marlin 20", 957 fps Ruger 5-1/2"

These loads were safe in my Marlin rifle and Ruger revolver. Use at your own risk.

[Harry O]

I originally got a couple of Ruger Vaqueros and a Marlin in 44-40 for CAS shooting. They did not work. The mix of .44 Magnum and 44-40 dimensions killed any attempt at accuracy. The Rugers were the worst. I had the throats of the cylinders in the Vaqueros bored out. The Marlin was large enough to handle larger bullets. In fact, since it had microgroove rifling, it needed larger bullets. They worked OK with jacketed bullets, but I could never get them to shoot well with the same cast bullet load. For a year, I loaded different cartridges for the rifle and the handguns. That got old pretty quick. I ended up getting 38-40's for CAS shooting. They worked much better.

The Vaqueros and Marlin in 44-40 stayed in the back of the gunsafe for 15 years or so. A while back, I dug them out and decided to see what they could do. They shot pretty good with 200gr jacketed, softnose bullets and 18.0gr of 2400. This is not .44 Magnum pressure, but is close. Note the both of these guns are chambered in .44 Magnum so it was not the guns I was worried about. I did have some problems with Winchester brass. Two to three shots maximum. It is too thin for this pressure. I have gotten 4 loads out of Starline brass so far without any problems. I don't know how far they will go, but I don't think the loads with Starline brass are a problem.

I am not sure what to use them for, but they certainly wake up everyone at the range when I shoot them.

[BUFFALOW RED]

thanks for the info it helps
i want the 44-40 cal as theres no problem with BP blowing back. my 44 mag marlin (now long ago sold) would not stop blow back into action so 12-15 rounds & time to clean
. not a problem with 44-40 cases.
i was planing on honeing the cly throats to dia. of the barrel for boolit to pass correctly.
i guess i could have ruger set a 44 mag cly to the vaquero just didnt want the cost of it
CCW a single action, well consider how many rounds are normly fired in a month through it ,at a match & practice & im thinking a persons confidence in there gun could not be any better
so if you fired over 150 rounds in a month in one of these would you then pick up a different gun to carry?