.357 problem

[twc1964]

Hi guys, i have been loading some 38spl loads using around 4.6 gr universal as a play around load. Im using the lee .358-158rf boolit that is powdercoated. I seem to be getting vertical stringing on the target. Groups are probably 3" at 15yds. I dont have this problem with other guns using pc boolits at all. The slugs are sized at .359 . Thx guys for any ideas on what im doing wrong.

[Forrest r]

What 357 are you using s&w/ruger?????

What primer???

4.6gr of universal is 1/10th of a grain under max for a 38splp+ load. I've shot countless 1000's of the 4.7gr/158gr boolit/38splp+ loads in several different firearms. Your 4.6gr load is good, it allows for a full burn of the powder, universal tends to leave junk/un-burnt with starting/lite loads. The only time I ever got any stringing with the 4.7gr universal load was when I'd use cci primers in revolvers with lite springs. Switched back to federal primers & the problem went away, no more weak.lite primer hits.

Don't know if any of this will help you or not.

[twc1964]

Im using cci std primers. The gun was used but hammer drop feels like factory strength. The pistol is a nm blackhawk with 4 5/8 bbl. The load feels good and i have hardly any unburned grains at all. I shoot my autos much more so im gonna set up a bench and remove as much shooter error as possible. I think i will load up a few with winchester primers and compare em to the 20 with cci's i loaded today.

[upnorthwis]

While I have not used Universal in a pistol, I have used some others (WW231) that would have vertical stringing when the temperature dropped. Of course being from Northern Wisconsin they were loaded when it was 90 (For 650 fps) and shot when it was zero.

[twc1964]

Hmmm, it was quite cold today when i shot my loads. Fyi folks, i am using w-231 in these loads. My load is 3.9gr. I had been using universal earlier this week but jumped over to 231 to try it out.

[GoodOlBoy]

Only thing I can think of offhand is crimp. Do you have a good roll crimp on your loads? Sometimes a weak crimp will allow loads to do odd things depending on powder, etc. Other than that I have no idea that hasn't been mentioned.

GoodOlBoy

[twc1964]

Goodolboy, i believe i hace a pretty good roll crimp on em. I dont want to smash the heck out of the boolit , but case mouth is turned well into the cimp groove.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah you should be good to go then on the crimp.... darnit I hate to throw this out because goodness knows I questioned it and folks didn't like it, BUT have you Chronied them to see if you have a big FPS spread?

bleh can't believe I advised it.... I feel..... dirty!

GoodOlBoy

[twc1964]

Well i would if i had a chrono. Im gonna get one soon but havebt yet. Dont feel to dirty, goodolboy, lol

[psweigle]

If you are sizing to .359 and THEN powder coating them, what is the final diameter of the bullet? This may be a place to start. Good luck.

[twc1964]

Psweigle, the boolits are at .359 after i resize the pc'd boolits. They drop at .358 or .359, pc-d then sized back to .359.

[dtknowles]

Hi guys, i have been loading some 38spl loads using around 4.6 gr universal as a play around load. Im using the lee .358-158rf boolit that is powdercoated. I seem to be getting vertical stringing on the target. Groups are probably 3" at 15yds. I dont have this problem with other guns using pc boolits at all. The slugs are sized at .359 . Thx guys for any ideas on what im doing wrong.

Are you weighing or throwing the charges. If you use a measure, which one and how consistent are you. The 15 yard groups you reference, how were they shot? Carefully prepared rounds shoot better than quickly thrown together rounds but 3 inches at 15 yards would indicate more of a problem. Do you have other ammo or prior groups to gauge the ability of the gun.

Tim

[Scharfschuetze]

so im gonna set up a bench and remove as much shooter error as possible

Perhaps that big heavy hammer with its long ark and slow lock time is the issue when shooting without support when testing for accuracy. Your autos that you mention, depending on the type of course, generally have a faster lock time than single action revolvers. That difference in lock time may be the issue and not your load. My Colt 1911 match pistol is speed locked with titanium parts and the difference in lock times between it and my single action revolver is remarkable. While not timed scientifically, I'm sure it cuts down the lock time by at least half between the two and that allows me only half the time to screw up my shot compared to the SAA.

As you surmise, your bench resting of the revolver should give you a truer answer on what your load will do in the Ruger. A good supported position can be almost as steady as a rested position if you are familiar with the various positions. My favorites for shooting accurately are the sitting and prone positions. If you are testing for accuracy without a bench, then try one of these. In my PPC competition days, it was not uncommon to see sitting and prone shot groups fired by my team mates at 50 yards measure just a couple of inches with all in the 10 and X rings.

Vertical dispersion from inconsistent velocities probably won't be an issue at the short range that you are testing at. Large extreme spreads will often start to raise issues as the range is increased. I often shoot my revolvers to a couple of hundred yards and rifles to 1,000 yards and a good chronograph is very helpful in working up loads towards that goal. The knowledge that it will give you regarding your loads and various loading techniques is rewarding as well.

A few questions if I may:

Are you using cases with the same head stamp?

Are you using cases of the same length so that you have a uniform crimp for every round?

Do you have a base line for accuracy in the Ruger to compare your current results with?

[twc1964]

Ok guys, when loading another batch of the same load as before, i added a bit more crimp to em. Went out just an hour ago and shot em. They shot great, about 1.25" group at 15 yrds offhand! Im good with that. Put several in the same hole, lol oh, by the way, to answer another poster, im throwing my charges from a redding 3br measure with a pistol chamber. It works smoothly and very accurately.

[psweigle]

Glad you got it figured out! Thanks for letting us know and by the way, how do you like powder coated boolits? I've not had the chance to mess with it as of yet.

[twc1964]

Psweigle, i absolutly love the pc'd slugs!! I had a cylinder of the same lee 358-158rf boolits that were the same load as i was having problems with that were lubed with 45-45-10 lube. After shooting 30 or so pc'd boolits, i shot the lubed ones to free up the brass and thought id shot black powder lol. No mess with the pc'd boolits and i can coat em and load em up in large plastic bins and never worry about dust or drt sticking to them. No more goo'd up dies and they look real purdy lol. They shoot well in my glock-21, glock 19 and now the blackhawk. I still keep a bottle of home brewed 45-45-10 on hand but wont be using it often. Try it, you will probably like it.

[psweigle]

I hear that a lot. Lol. I guess I'm going to have to try it. Thanks.

[twc1964]

I just want to thank everyone that responded. I went today and shot another batch. Its really a boost when youv been trying for a while and things just dont come together. Now , after a thing as simple as a 1/4 turn on the crimp die will make such a huge difference. Now it seems that i cant miss the bullseye,lol. Even with less than perfect eyes and shooting one handed is fun when you keep plugging the center ring. Thanks again.