1894 (?) Mauser 8mm

[Four Fingers of Death]

I saw a nice Mauser today, split rear reciever ring, in excellent condition, perfect bore, even had the cleaning rod. NICEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

But $AU450, which might sound dear to you guys, but this is what good No4s start at here. It is a lot of money for one of these, but it is a really nice rifle. I have more military rifles than I can poke a stick at (just picked up a mint 03 made by Remington and a smick Arisaka, both with bayonets on the weekend). I have a feeling this would make a lovely cast boolit gun.

Tring to resisttttttttttttttttttttttttt :(

[jack19512]

just picked up a mint 03 made by Remington






Do you mind me asking how much you gave for the Remington? I looked at one at a gun show recently but had no idea of it's value.

[13Echo]

With the split bridge that sounds like the German Model 98/40 which is more closely related to the Manlicher-Schoenauer than the Mauser. It does have a Mauser type box magazine rather than the Manlicher spool.

Jerry Liles

[Four Fingers of Death]

I paid $AU600 for the 03' and $AU100 for the bayonet. That is the cheapest I have ever seen a Springer in the past 10 years or so and every other one I saw had an absolutely stuffed Bbl. This one is brillliant.

As to the mauser, yeah, it looks like a standard Mauser on the shelf, but when I took it down I noticed the split reciever. I was very disappointed, but when I opened the bolt, it had that bank vault chunk/chunk and the barrel is outstanding. It has the Mauser type magazine. It is really a lovely rifle. I suppose these have the 'J' and not the 'S' barrels.

Mick.

[Oldeyes]

Another posibility is the Portuguese M1904/38 Verguiero, a hybrid of the GEW88 and a Mauser magazine style. Standard later model "S" bore and chamber, all the ones I have seen have mint bores but some have considerable rust under the wood. Good shooters and smooth actions! These went for about $129 US when imported here about 5 years ago, no idea of current prices.
ps, bolt reassembly is an interesting challenge :)

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was under the impression that it was a Verguiero (but I couldn't remember the exact name). These were extremely common here and they were virtually giving them away. They usually sold for a half what the 98s bought, but due to the emergence of Military Rifle shooting in Australia recently, the prices and availability of good military rifles has changed somewhat. Anything with a pristine bore is very sought after.

I must get my friend (read have him get the young guy who works for him) to check under the stock for rust. I don't think it would be a problem as the rest of the rifle is in extra good condition.

Mick

[MtGun44]

Is your 1903 Springfield an 1903 or 1903A3 model? I have had some really
excellent groups from both models, and I believe that only the K31 is in the
same accuracy class as the '03 Springfields - altho I do have a M39 Finn that
has put out some really nice groups, too, and the Swede 94 isn't too far
behind. If the bore is good, I think you'll love the way the '03 shoots.

I don't know what the Aussie dollar is against the US dollar these days, but
the typical price for '03s is $625 (US) and up at gunshows now here in Kansas
(the REAL Land of Oz).[smilie=1:

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

the serial number is in the 3million range and it has the open sights. The A3 is the one with the peep sights I believe.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb133/arightmick/2008-02-07-1940-18.jpg

A quote from Wikipedia:
"Remington began production of the M1903 in September of 1941, at serial number 3,000,000, using old tooling from the Rock Island Arsenal which had been in storage since 1919. The very early rifles are almost indistinguishable from 1919-made Rock Island rifles."

that explains the 3mil serial number.

[NVcurmudgeon]

the serial number is in the 3million range and it has the open sights. The A3 is the one with the peep sights I believe.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb133/arightmick/2008-02-07-1940-18.jpg

A quote from Wikipedia:
"Remington began production of the M1903 in September of 1941, at serial number 3,000,000, using old tooling from the Rock Island Arsenal which had been in storage since 1919. The very early rifles are almost indistinguishable from 1919-made Rock Island rifles."

that explains the 3mil serial number.

This time Wikipedia is rght on, Mick. Shortly after starting production of the '03 rifle, Remington and/or the Government proposed the "streamlined for production" changes that became the '03A3. Ironically the wartime exedient, though ugly, is the best combat rifle of the Springfields, IMO. You can refine the dating of your rifle here:

http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm

[Four Fingers of Death]

Apparently, the tooling was so worn they started converting to stamped parts, such as stock furniture, etc and then went to the peep sight, the 03A3. That is the rfile I would really like as my eyes are starting to have trouble with open sights.

Nice to know I finally have a sample of the rifle Sgt York carried. I am under the impression that the rest of his battalion carried M17s, but he prefered the 03' sights for shots at running Germans and because he was shooting so many of them, they got him an 03.'

I wil still be keeping my eyes open for an A3.

We are sort of hijacking the thread, but seeing its my thread i suppose i don't have to apoligise :)

Mick

[Buckshot]

................One thing about American military rifles is that the powers that be felt that a serial number on the action was sufficient. What I'm alluding to here is the fact that you can come upon a perfectly authentic mixmaster rifle and still have it be the real deal. The 1903 started out as one thing (design) and then a few were altered (Mk1) for the Pederson device. Other then that, the only other design change was in 1927 when the 'C' pistol grip stock was decided upon(1903-A1), until the wartime 1903-A3. Heat treating changes aside.

But since Springfield had a practically lifetime supply of walnut blanks on hand, very few real 'C' stocks got into the hands of troops, other then sniper rifles. The rest of the rifles got regular or 'scant grip' stocks.

All production of 1903 stock furniture was fully machined steel from solid. While the production of the rifle took place, so did the production of all this 'accessory' metal, ie: nosecaps, bands, triggerguards, buttplates, & etc. You also had Rock Island doing the same thing.

When Remington got the contract to begin production of the M1903, in addition to the tooling and machines, they got loads of the spare parts also. Early production Remingtons were indistinguishable (other then serial # and REMINGTON on the action) from the Springfield or RI produced rifles. Barrels were all cut rifled, and in order to speed production Remington was authorized to go to a 2 groove design, after testing by the ordnance dept proved no material difference in accuracy. Later, 4 groove barrels became common again as the use, care and maintanence of brooches became bettwe understood.

In addition, to speed production the Remington engineers looked for other shortcuts to be made. A very minior one, and one of the first to be authorized for deletion was the bolt hold open spring and plunger found at the inside rear of the action. It was there to hold the bolt open if a trooper was charging his rifle with the muzzle down. It just kept the bolt from sliding forward. Another simple one was to drill the rear action screw hole all the way through the rear tang, instead of it being blind. They also eventually got permission to eliminate many machine operations on the action.

Over time they got permission to substitute many stamped metal parts such as the magazine-triggerguard assembly, nosecap, bands, etc. All these were added to the assembly line as they became available. It wasn't uncommon to find rifles leaving the factory containing both milled AND stamped parts. As time progressed (and the heat was off) Remington was also now manufacturing accesory parts for field use. All these were of the 1903-A3 variety.

In the mid 90's several places offered divisional level ordnance Springfield repair packages for a VERY reasonable price. These were waxed carboard cartons that contained multiples of everything except stocks and actions in sealed plastic bags. These were made by Remington. There would be 5 bolts, 10 extractors, 15 ejectors, 10 triggers, 10 sears, 20 trigger springs, 20 sear pins, etc & etc.

During the war there were several levels or ordnance repair and reclaimaton. The objective was to get the weapons repaired and back into the hands of the troops. There was no thought to keeping the rifles "True to Their Era of Production". At the end of the war the US government paid Belgium (among others) companies to perform small arms refurbishment. This was in addition to facilities here in the states doing the same work.

You will not normally see a reciever milled for the 1903-A3 peep sight sporting the 1903 barrel sleeve and Buffington rear sight, nor will handguards swap between the 2, but most everything else will, and can be found so. If there is any doubt as to the quantities of the accessory parts that were made, one only has to look at the continueing availability or stuff still available, 'New in the wrapper'.

................Buckshot

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks Buckshot, a font of knowledge as always! :)

[floodgate]

Buckshot:

I've read somewhere that another purpose for the little bolt hold-open detent was for holding the rifle up to the light and looking into the muzzle to check the bore. Doesn't make as much sense as your explanation, though, as it is so easy to remove the bolt altogether.

floodgate