New experience after 35+ years of reloading

[Wayne Smith]

I bought a bunch of 38 Special brass off of a member here a while back. It is very mixed brass and some of it old. What surprised me is that a number of them, rather than kicking out the primer, neatly punched the end of the primer leaving the primer walls behind in the case.
I know electrolysis can cause dissimilar metals to weld together. These should be both brass?

It is not extreme age because several of them are PMC. Probably not over 50 years? I don't know when PMC began importing, but I assume it would be post Korean War.

My question is, what storage conditions might lead to this phenomona?

[Nueces]

Can you see any evidence of a primer sealer having been used? Perhaps such might have hardened to form an adhesive.

[TNsailorman]

I've had this happen on a few military cases in the past but never commercial brass. Interesting.

[country gent]

I have had crimped primers do this also. Primer sealant may also cause this, but Im betting they are tight pockets and pressure soldered to the case. Upper end pressures may also have an effct on this Pressing the primer out harder into the cases. Exposure to a solvent may also cause this. Was the brass cleaned and if so how and how long ago. It may be simple corrosion from storage and or exposure to solvent fumes where stored. ( A guy I knew stored his brass under the bench where he cleaned firearms and it would turn green from hoppes and solvents fumes). Its probably a corrosion issue due to storage handling

[Moonie]

I've had range pickups do this when they have been exposed to weather for a while. Several different calibers.

[Short Range]

Have had it happen several times from going to fast when decapping. I was hitting the primer fast enough with the pin that it would snap the end off the primer instead of pushing it out. Started bringing the decapping pin to the primer, then punch it out and have not had it happen since.

[MarkP]

Did the primer cups fracture at the radius? It could be due to SCC (stress corrosion cracking)

A test that is performed to determine the susceptibility of SCC (and some mil specs) on cartridge mouths / necks is to put a cartridge with a bullet inserted and crimped in place into a solution of Mercurous nitrate for a few minutes and look for cracks. Usually neck splitting occurs when in an environment with the presence of ammonia and usually takes some time to occur, mercurous nitrate just accelerates. The material needs to have a tension within it such as a bullet inserted into a case mouth creates a stress. The primer radius could have residual stresses from the cupping operation.

Could be from priming mixtures and or storage environment.

Or did the de-capping pin punch a hole through the anvil and primer cup? Primer lacquer would be a good guess.

[MattOrgan]

If not crimped primers where this sometimes happens, brass stored in wet conditions can form corrosion or electrolysis that causes the primers to stick in the pocket and you break the base out of the pocket when you decap. Electrolysis can form between even slightly disimilar types of brass. This normally happens with pistol primers because the cups are thinner. I'm guessing your PMC brass is unplated and the primers are unplated too.

Since you don't mention any other condition issues with the brass (etching, pink discoloration etc.) I'm guessing solvents or cleaners are not involved in this.

Pressure would not be an issue as excessively high pressure expands primer pockets past the elastic limit. Pressure at the safe maximum does not cause primers to do this or we'd experience this frequently with high pressure handgun cartridges like 9mm, .357, .40 S&W, and .44 Magnum. We don't experience this often. The only times I've experienced this with non crimped brass is with 9mm and .38 Special from brass purchased in 5 gallon buckets. It was obvious the brass had been wet at some point. One lot I purchased and had this problem with about 1% of the cases was once fired brass cased Federal 148 grain Wadcutter ammunition. And yes the primers were in plated too.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

had the same thing happen to me too. with older 38 sp brass that i had gifted to me ?

[mdi]

I would think a bit of corrosion between the primer cup and the case pocket would cause hard primer removal. Even with a sealer, there would be enough moisture in the air for corrosion and a fired case has the flash hole to allow dampness in and over time corrode the primer cup/case primer pocket. Wouldn't take much...

[Wayne Smith]

I have no idea how it was stored. I cleaned it in walnut media and that is it. It was quite dirty - in that handling it turned my hands black. I'm guessing this is dust and dirt accumulation during storage. No, there is no discoloration.

Some of them have active primers in them. It will be interesting to see if they fire.

[Tar Heel]

The brass got wet and the primer residue corroded. Discussed in following thread. Mostly on PMC brass.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236844-PMC-Brass-Corrosion

[Remiel]

I've had range pickups do this when they have been exposed to weather for a while. Several different calibers.

Same here Hornaday .223 got we and sat before i got them and i had 3 out of 50 leave the primer walls in the pocket, used a hooked all to get them out then swaged them(scratched the pockets walls a bit) they are fine now

[Bayou52]

The brass got wet and the primer residue corroded. Discussed in following thread. Mostly on PMC brass.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236844-PMC-Brass-Corrosion

Concur with this. I've had this happen on 30-06 military cases with crimped primer pockets. The brass had been exposed to weather and corroded a bit.

Bayou52

[LUBEDUDE]

The exact same thing as the OP happend to two different buddies of mine. They both bought some 38 brass that came from an outdoor range in Fl.

They said the primers had corroded to the brass.

[psweigle]

Look to see if there are high pressure signs on the primers them selves. If they were carelessly reloaded prior to you receiving them, this may also cause the problem.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It sounds like they all came from a single source. One possibility is that the previous owner used some innovative pocket cleaning technique which put a little reverse taper into the primer pocket, so that pressure made a sort of circular dovetail joint holding them in place.

[Char-Gar]

Check the shape of the tip of your decapping pin. If it is too pointed, replace it. Also slow down and don't slam the pin into the flash hole. Ease the old primers out. Easy does it!

The only time I have put a decapping pin through spent primers was when going to fast with USGI crimped primer 30 caliber brass.

[Drdarrin]

I have had the same experience with 357 brass that had been primed but had not been finished loading and then stored and moist conditions.of the 150 or so that I received about 20 of of them were so corroded that the primer could not push out just the end of the primer did. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/28/1ca25aa5513d515c4ce8cb36f27ff031.jpg

[ffries61]

Known as a ringer, I've had a few in 45ACP last year or two, all mine have been with unplated primers, never any with CCI's, gotta wonder if the brass on brass is causing some of this.

Fred

[Wayne Smith]

Char-Gar, I'm decapping these on my TrueLine Jr. Not much slamming and banging with that!

[btroj]

Wayne, if we didn't come across new stuff from time to time this would all get sorta boring, wouldn't it?

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne, if we didn't come across new stuff from time to time this would all get sorta boring, wouldn't it?

Exactly! That's why I love this place. I have yet to find something that no one here has not yet experienced. And they are willing to share that experience.