NewB.Question.. Where to buy BPC cast bullets that are good enough to get started?

[ktapply]

A good friend of mine has finally encouraged me long enough and I am going to give this BPCS thing a try... going to begin with a Shiloh Sharps Long Range Express in 45-70. I've been reading tons and lurking on the forums and have some questions about components for reloading. One of the questions I can't seem to find an answer to is Is there a good source for quality cast boolits (400gr or so?) that anyone would recommend?

Many Thanks,

Kevin Tapply
Arvada, Colorado

[Don McDowell]

www.bigskycastbullets.com (http://www.bigskycastbullets.com)

[Nobade]

Nice! I didn't know about them, looks like they have a good selection there.

-Nobade

[Don McDowell]

Yes he does a number of good bullets, and best of all he competes with them, and knows what's working..

[rfd]

bigsky is very good, so is www.cheycast.com

hard to beat a lyman #457193 405 to start off with for distances up to 300 yards.

[ktapply]

Thanks to everyone who has responded, both here and in PM.. I really appreciate it!

[Don McDowell]

:veryconfuGotta love them boys that are so cock sure they got the best answer, they can't/won't do it on an open forum....:shock:

[Mark Daiute]

Great place for bullets? By a mold and mold some! It is a pre-requisite!

[ktapply]

Great place for bullets? By a mold and mold some! It is a pre-requisite!

Yep, all in good time.....all in good time.....

[Lumpy grits]

Here's a place to try-
http://www.sageoutfitters.com/page/page/7184637.htm

LG

[rfd]

yep, not at all expensive nor complicated to cast good .45-70 boolits.

STARTING on the cheap - a 4# lee furnace, lyman dipper, lyman #457193 mould (yer 100-300 yard boolit), 1:20 or 1:30 alloy (such as via roto-metal), some good casting knowledge (here at castboolits and elsewhere), and yer good to go. shoot the boolits sized as they drop, don't resize. lubing is even easier on the cheap - buy or mix the bp lube (making yer own will typically be cheaper than buying), dip lube the boolits (not pan lube), use an oversize case to cleanly "cookie cutter" remove the excess wax.

food for thought, at least? :)

PS - i spent a *TON* of money buying other people's cast boolits and wasted all that money and time when i should have been casting my own, which proved to be far more consistent and accurate than any over-the-counter store bought boolits.

[cajun shooter]

I have had great results with Harlan at Sage bullets, look for the Sage Outfitters site as they sell a lot of BPCR products. I think his bullets work well. They also have some great T-Shirt designs to buy.
I do cast my own bullets but when you want to try a different bullet, you don't have to purchase the mold as Harlan has a lot to choose from. Later David

[Don McDowell]

A box or two of bullets in a given style and weight, is a better and probably cheaper way to find out you and or your rifle don't really care for that bullet, than buying the mould...

[ktapply]

yep, not at all expensive nor complicated to cast good .45-70 boolits.

STARTING on the cheap - a 4# lee furnace, lyman dipper, lyman #457193 mould (yer 100-300 yard boolit), 1:20 or 1:30 alloy (such as via roto-metal), some good casting knowledge (here at castboolits and elsewhere), and yer good to go. shoot the boolits sized as they drop, don't resize. lubing is even easier on the cheap - buy or mix the bp lube (making yer own will typically be cheaper than buying), dip lube the boolits (not pan lube), use an oversize case to cleanly "cookie cutter" remove the excess wax.

food for thought, at least? :)

PS - i spent a *TON* of money buying other people's cast boolits and wasted all that money and time when i should have been casting my own, which proved to be far more consistent and accurate than any over-the-counter store bought boolits.

Great Advice.... This is where I will be headed in short order.. until then, I want to get some lead down the barrel and get a feel for shooting and reloading BP... I REALLY appreciate all the suggestions and experience. everything helps.. if you have a thought please don't hold back.....

KT

[Don McDowell]

Kt, as you are in Denver, if you haven't already, you might want to think about hangin out at the Golden Gun Club's bpcr sillouette matches, and if you're wanting to go into the longrange stuff watch the Colorado Rifle Clubs bpcr longrange schedule. Some of the best shooters in the world lurk about those ranges, and a greater bunch of folks would be hard to find.

[rfd]

A box or two of bullets in a given style and weight, is a better and probably cheaper way to find out you and or your rifle don't really care for that bullet, than buying the mould...

if accuracy at targets is the goal, then casting yer own makes far more sense than even buying some "trial" boolits for loading. went that route and just wasted money (and time) because i/you/whomever can typically build a better (more consistent and accurate) boolit than a bought one that yer rifle will like if not love. the boolit design is paramount. if hunting is the goal, then all of this casting talk is not essentially required.

as far as a .45-70 mould is concerned, lyman is an excellent starting point and more expensive moulds may never be needed. hard to beat the 457193 for shorts and 457132 for longs. none of this is ever wasted money.

yep, ymmv. ;)

[Don McDowell]

My mileage has varied. But even a Lyman mould will cost more than a couple of boxes of bullets from one of the bullet casters offering the same bullet. Some rifles and people just don't get along well with bullet x, some do. Someone new to the bpcr loading will do well to purchase bullets from a known caster that has a reputation of casting winning bullets, rather than trying to figure out how to cast a decent bullet along with the loading, and shooting process..The casting part can come later when the loading and shooting part is halfway down pat.
I do know of several folks that finish well into the top end of various matches both gong and NRA registered matches that do not cast their own bullets, but rather buy them from one or more of the very good commercial folks listed here..

[ktapply]

Kt, as you are in Denver, if you haven't already, you might want to think about hangin out at the Golden Gun Club's bpcr sillouette matches, and if you're wanting to go into the longrange stuff watch the Colorado Rifle Clubs bpcr longrange schedule. Some of the best shooters in the world lurk about those ranges, and a greater bunch of folks would be hard to find.

I am a member at GGC, but on the Trap and Skeet side. I have sent in my application for the rifle pistol range, will find out if I get in February.... Not sure if they have a limited number every year or not. One of the local guys that shoots there has offered some good advice and I will meet him at some point. If any other Denver area BPCS shooters are willing to talk to a New Guy that would be great.... PM me here and we connect...

Thanks again to everyone..

Kevin Tapply
Arvada, Colorado

[Don McDowell]

Pm Cimmarron Red, he shoots on the east end of the range and is a fine fella, that would likely be tickled pink to help get you started.

PS, Chill Wills is the match director on the east end of that range for the bpcr stuff, nice fella as well.[smilie=s: seems to know his way around bpcr's....

[rfd]

loading and casting are two entirely different things, but with mutual intent if targets are the goal - making an accurate round. whether or not the loader or someone else has cast the boolit has little to do with the load process.

but it's understandable wanting to make fire, smoke and noise asap, and deal with any accuracy details later.

it's all good, one way or another. and it's all a matter of fun and satisfaction.

[country gent]

I also recomend buying and trying bullets from a supplier first to see what the rifle and shooter likes before the mold. Buffalo arms company, Sage track of the wolf, and several other suppliers give alloy lube and sometimes mold, once the"best" or acceptable bullet load is found then finding the mould for a similar or the bullet becomes easier since you have an idea what you are looking for. Another way to accomplish this is to go to swapping selling and ask to buy a few of what you think you want from the members here. I have lyman moulds for the 510 grn round nose ( the old govt bullet) and the 535 grn postel ( my mold has been reworked to nose pour so they come out around 528 grns now) I lube these with either home made emmerts lube or spg. I would be willing to send you a few to try or test if you want. They are cast from 20-1 lead tin air cooled. I dont shoot any thing much lighter than that. Also if you want to give Paper Patched a try I have a brooks mould that drops .442 and wrapped comes in around .448 or so ( bore rider) this is an adjustable mould what I have cast go around 500 grns. ( Car is put away for winter so not casting right now to make any lighter) But I can also send some wrapped and ready to go along.

[ktapply]

I also recomend buying and trying bullets from a supplier first to see what the rifle and shooter likes before the mold. Buffalo arms company, Sage track of the wolf, and several other suppliers give alloy lube and sometimes mold, once the"best" or acceptable bullet load is found then finding the mould for a similar or the bullet becomes easier since you have an idea what you are looking for. Another way to accomplish this is to go to swapping selling and ask to buy a few of what you think you want from the members here. I have lyman moulds for the 510 grn round nose ( the old govt bullet) and the 535 grn postel ( my mold has been reworked to nose pour so they come out around 528 grns now) I lube these with either home made emmerts lube or spg. I would be willing to send you a few to try or test if you want. They are cast from 20-1 lead tin air cooled. I dont shoot any thing much lighter than that. Also if you want to give Paper Patched a try I have a brooks mould that drops .442 and wrapped comes in around .448 or so ( bore rider) this is an adjustable mould what I have cast go around 500 grns. ( Car is put away for winter so not casting right now to make any lighter) But I can also send some wrapped and ready to go along.

Wow.. your offer to help me get started is greatly appreciated... I would love to try a few Boolits that you might have to spare. I will PM you my address information. Thank you very very much.. I will pay it forward when it's my turn....

Kevin Tapply
Arvada, Colorado

[Rifle 57]

Hi Kevin I live in Greeley and if you pm me your address I will try and send you a few bullets to try if you want them.
Loren

[semtav]

One thing about buying a quality mould and trying it that way is you can go thru a lot of bullets and loads to see if its really the bullet or the load. and if it doesn't like it you can get near your money back on ebay or assra and be way ahead. Plus you might get another gun when you really get hooked on this game that does like that mould.
Only way Id buy bullets is if I just wasn't quite ready to start casting.

[ktapply]

Only way Id buy bullets is if I just wasn't quite ready to start casting.

Yes, that's exactly where I am right now.... "not quite ready to start casting".... thanks to all of you who have offered advice, encouragement, do and dont's, and Boolits... this has been a great experience.... and it only just began.....

Kevin

[Dan4570]

Well I will tell you this you have some good suggestions for bullets.
I know Lumpygrits from the Shiloh Forum, (my handle there is Dan4570, but it was taken here) and I know him well enough to know that he would not steer you wrong...actually I was going to suggest sagebrush my self.
However I have been shooting 45-70 for years, Only recently did I decide to compete in the long rang game, but I have been hunting with them for years, and I burn several pounds of bp plinking with them. (great gopher guns with smokless loads, you can see where the gopher went if you miss !)
If you can find them, I will suggest a 500 grn Gov. bullet, and 70 grns of FF, the original military loading (you ave to compress the **** out of it and will need starline or Win brass) use mag primers, and do go harder than 20:1 this seems to work very well in about any 45-70 I put it through. The hollow base 405 with 65 grns FF does ok too. If your shooting beyond 300 yds I do suggest 485 to 505 grns. I am not much for them in a 45-70 beyond the 505 grn. 530's may not be bad in an 16 lbs to 20 lbs rifle, I don't know what your rifle weight is. I am faverable to carbines and short bbls, 22" bbls and 530 grn bullets are just not a fun combo.
Good luck.

PS: if yer buddy casts his own, you might want to try it out.....it is easier than it sounds.

[ktapply]

Thank you....

[cajun shooter]

Dan 45-70, I don't think you will find many BPCR shooters using a 500 grain bullet from a 22" bbl. That is fine for putting game on the table but it falls real short at the 600 - 1000 yard targets. The 535 and up bullets from 32-34 inch bbls are the norm. The rifles also weigh over 13 pounds.
For the new member that is saying that the Lyman molds of today are all that is needed for shooting BPCR, please post your results from your last match with your class listed for us.
I have had the pleasure of being friends with some of the members who do shoot BPCR and I don't think any of them would be using todays current Lyman molds.
My current shooting, because of some serious medical issues is limited to shooting in SASS matches with the 44WCF cartridge. I do however still purchase molds by Hoch and Accurate for my bullets. I have one mold by RCBS in 500 gr for my 45-70, it's my understanding that this mold was designed by Mike Venturino. I used the Saeco 645 and 745 for some great results when I was able to shoot my Pedersoli Sharps.

[rfd]

while yes, the majority of dedicated and top bpcr riflemen are casting with custom molds by hoch, jones, brooks and many other boutique boolit mould makers, there is no question to me that a good lyman mould is more than up to the task for the *average typical* weekend long range shooter at 200 to 500m. i know of at least a few top shooters using lyman moulds and either shooting in the top ten or winning. as of last year, croft barker was still using the lyman 457193 for the 200 yard chickens and recent emails with jerry hartwig told of him using the lyman 457132 postell with excellent results when he was into silhouette (jerry was written up in bpcr news for putting ten .25-20 schuetzen boolits into 1.030" at 200 yards with a scoped cpa - he has some serious shooting credentials).

SO, do ya really Need to move on to a custom double or triple cost bpcr mould? maybe. maybe not. depends on yer requirements and results. i think that most well made boolits are better than the typical finger behind the trigger.

[Lumpy grits]

I have never seen any production mould(Lyman, RCBS et-al)that you can shoot as cast with out sizing.
My Paul Jones and Steve Brooks moulds drop bullets that are .0003" of round, and drop my 30:1 alloy bullets at .4585" dia.
The biggest deal with production, mass produced moulds is the QC and inconsistency in dimensions.
LG

[rfd]

i never have a need to size my 1:20 and 1:30 drops of lyman 193 and 132. ymmv.

[Lumpy grits]

i never have a need to size my 1:20 and 1:30 drops of lyman 193 and 132. ymmv.

The 3, .45 cal Lyman Postell moulds I had. Couldn't drop a bullet that was less the .002" out of round.
Finally got my money back from Lyman. They also were .460-.461 dia as dropped.
Got my PJ moulds, and never look'd back-YMMV
LG