hodgdon equivalent for blue dot?

[quickshot]

Hey all. I am getting down to the last of my blue dot. Alliant powder seems to be as easy to get ahold of as hens teeth. Everyone I have talked to says that Hogdgon powders are way easier for them to get ahold of. I was wondering if anyone had any idea if there is another alternative to blue dot. I use it pretty much in my .357 mag loads. I also use it in reduced loads in .223 and .308 due to the economy of it and that it is so versatile in .223. The .357 mag and .223 loads are the ones I really care about. Any ideas?

[quilbilly]

How about an equivalent for 2400 in my 308?

[high standard 40]

Other folks may be more knowledgeable than I in this regard, but it appears to me that the Hodgdon offerings with a similar burn rate to Blue Dot are all ball powders. I'm not so sure any could be considered a replacement for Blue Dot.

[quickshot]

My next question would be as long as the burn rate is very close would it matter if it was a ball or flake or extruded powder? I just can't imagine that it would make that much of a difference.

[RKJ]

If this helps or not, here is the burn rate chart from Hodgdon: https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates%20-%202014-2015.pdf

(https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates%20-%202014-2015.pdf)

[fouronesix]

Extrapolation of powder is a bad idea. How about looking in 2 or 3 reputable, published load data sources for comparable loads- velocities, pressures, load details, etc.

[quickshot]

That's the thing. There is no published load data for my blue dot loads. Only information I have is from James Calhoon's website and personal correspondence with a gentleman who goes by "seafire" on several forums who has done extensive testing and load development. I was wondering if anyone else might have gone down this road before and could have some advice.

[jmort]

There is so much published data available for Blue Dot, why resort to such data? 4227 could work.

[OuchHot!]

I use a fair bit of hs6, not real clean and not quite the same but in stock at grafs.

[sundog]

I thought I would pass this along for what it's worth. When I ran out of BD I switched to HS-7 for .357 and worked up a load I liked with 358156. When HS-7 ran out I switched over to a big jug of surplus AA#7 and worked up another load I liked. None of them 'top end' fire breathing dragons, but more than adequate. So, here is what I wanted to pass along; HS-7 was not good in bottle neck rifle cartridges. In fact it was down right scary. Click,... . . ., boom. Repeatable. Swore off that REAL quick. Too many other good options to pursue that. That was quite a few years ago.

When Felix was still with us, he put me off onto VV N105, N110 as alternates in that arena. Good powders, but a little more pricey than the other stuff. And they work in other applications (center fire 22s with real boolits). Ya jest gotta be savvy about yer doin'. Or like Foghorn Leghorn said, "Pay, I, I, say pay attention, son."

I'm still using surplus AA#7 in midrange .357, because it's a whole bunch cheaper.

[quickshot]

I don't shoot all THAT much .357 mag so I am not that concerned with that caliber. It is mainly for the centerfire rifles.

@jmortimer- I apologize for the murkyeness of the last post. I meant load data for the centerfire rifles. If you have a source for blue dot in those rifle calibers I would love it if you could point me to it!

[Mr opinionated]

try this link it may help you decide what to do, but my two cents i would go with HS6 its a slower powder like blue dot.


http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/equivalents.asp


MR O

[GaryN]

I thought I would pass this along for what it's worth. When I ran out of BD I switched to HS-7 for .357 and worked up a load I liked with 358156. When HS-7 ran out I switched over to a big jug of surplus AA#7 and worked up another load I liked. None of them 'top end' fire breathing dragons, but more than adequate. So, here is what I wanted to pass along; HS-7 was not good in bottle neck rifle cartridges. In fact it was down right scary. Click,... . . ., boom. Repeatable. Swore off that REAL quick. Too many other good options to pursue that. That was quite a few years ago.

When Felix was still with us, he put me off onto VV N105, N110 as alternates in that arena. Good powders, but a little more pricey than the other stuff. And they work in other applications (center fire 22s with real boolits). Ya jest gotta be savvy about yer doin'. Or like Foghorn Leghorn said, "Pay, I, I, say pay attention, son."

I'm still using surplus AA#7 in midrange .357, because it's a whole bunch cheaper.

I have a few pounds of HS-7 left. I have never found a good load for 357 or 44 magnum. The only thing I use it for is heavy magnum lead shot 12 gauge loads. If you have a good load for 357 I would be interested in it. I am always looking for ways to use it.

As for the op, I would be using 2400 in those applications.

[high standard 40]

My next question would be as long as the burn rate is very close would it matter if it was a ball or flake or extruded powder? I just can't imagine that it would make that much of a difference.

As someone else mentioned, ball powder can be harder to ignite and is much less forgiving in low density loads than Blue Dot which is a flake powder. You can find success with a Hodgdon ball powder in your 357 Mag but I would not suggest using this same powder in a 308 or 223. Sometimes, there is no direct replacement for a specific powder. 4227 would probably come closest to fulfilling your needs.

[MarkP]

Hodgdon Long Shot would be somewhat similar in the 357 and may be available at you LGS; at my LGS the magnum shot shell powders have been in stock when the powder shelves were empty. Would not try it in the 223.

[MT Chambers]

Blue dot and HS-7 are very close, both starred in the days of heavy duck loads with lead shot.

[Calamity Jake]

As someone else mentioned, ball powder can be harder to ignite and is much less forgiving in low density loads than Blue Dot which is a flake powder. You can find success with a Hodgdon ball powder in your 357 Mag but I would not suggest using this same powder in a 308 or 223. Sometimes, there is no direct replacement for a specific powder. 4227 would probably come closest to fulfilling your needs.


^^^^^^ This right here!!!!

[303Guy]

H4227 has worked pretty well in my 303 Brit. I'm sure it would work in the 223 as well but don't try cycle the action with it. I have used a similar powder (MR200) in a mini-14 which would eject a case but not pick up a fresh round. Velocity was pretty good too, right up with more 'normal' powders. That was a top end load which I didn't like. Too warm and a double charge was quite possible! I would not use it without a powder positioner, i.e. Dacron. Others might think differently. It might not work so well in lighter 357 loads (unburned kernels).

H4227 burns clean in the Brit even at very low load densities and pressure.

[leftiye]

I have a few pounds of HS-7 left. I have never found a good load for 357 or 44 magnum. The only thing I use it for is heavy magnum lead shot 12 gauge loads. If you have a good load for 357 I would be interested in it. I am always looking for ways to use it.

As for the op, I would be using 2400 in those applications.

It's great for top end and plus P 38 special loads (357 length).

[mdi]

Hmmm. I just glanced in the Lyman's 48th I keep on my desk and there are Blue Dot loads for all bullet weights, cast and jacketed, above 120 grains. There are other powders listed that run within 25 fps (155 gr. cast bullet) at starting loads. Should be easy to check your reloading manual for a load that is near to your favorite Blue Dot load...

[fredj338]

I think longshot is probably closest to blue dot in performance. This is based on my use in 357sig & 10mm. The charge wts are vastly diff but that is more about the powder type than burn rate. Hs7, you bet, but it's been discontinued for awhile. LS was its replacement.

[bigjake]

how much blue dot in your .223's? bolt gun or AR?



QUOTE=quickshot;3063840]Hey all. I am getting down to the last of my blue dot. Alliant powder seems to be as easy to get ahold of as hens teeth. Everyone I have talked to says that Hogdgon powders are way easier for them to get ahold of. I was wondering if anyone had any idea if there is another alternative to blue dot. I use it pretty much in my .357 mag loads. I also use it in reduced loads in .223 and .308 due to the economy of it and that it is so versatile in .223. The .357 mag and .223 loads are the ones I really care about. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

[floydboy]

I have been having very good results with Lil Gun in my 357 Mag. I have a S&W Mod 27 and I'm using a Lyman 358429 boolit. I had to trim the cases to 1.24" to get the case to crimp in the crimp groove and still fit in the cylinder. I tried just crimping on the top drive band and suspected I was having the boolit shoved down in the case due to recoil. I started with 14 grs and worked up to 15.5 with no pressure signs. 15.5 was more noise and recoil than I wanted or needed. I've read 17 grs is a good load. 15grs was very accurate and had plenty of punch for me.

Floyd

[MtGun44]

As previously stated, HS7/W571 is very close to Blue Dot, but is now
no longer sold. AA7 is similar and Ramshot Silhouette is a bit faster.

Bill

[RickinTN]

I have had very good luck in the 223 with 55 grain jacketed bullets and IMR4227. Low report, very good accuracy, and fun to shoot. Most manuals I think publish IMR4227 loads for .222 but not .223. I have a 1990 version of the free IMR powder booklet and they show IMR4227 for most rifle cartridges as well as SR4759. I load 15.5 grains IMR4227 with the 55 jacketed in 223 rifle but the IMR manual shows 17 grains as being a maximum load. I'm thinking IMR4227 should work pretty well in your .357 magnum loads and data should be easy enough to find.
Good Luck,
Rick

[fcvan]

I run IMR 4227 in my Mini 14 and AR with full cycling, ejection, and bolt lock-back on empty. I cast the Lyman 225-415, gas checks have been either Hornady or home punched from a CheckMaker, and either lubed or PC'd. I'm using load data from the Lyman #44 and 49, both which list 14 grains as a top load for approx. 2250 fps. Next time out I will run them over the chronograph to see how they are really flying with PC.

I have used 4227 in 30 carbine, 300 blk, 30-06, .308, and a 45 Colt single shot rifle. I love the stuff and buy it in 8lb jugs, mostly for the 30 Carbine, 300 blk and .308 rifles. I only tried it in 45 Colt because I was tinkering, Unique is my general go-to powder for handguns.

I used to shoot Blue Dot in .357 many years ago using 125 grain bullets. A couple of years ago, I spoke to the factory reps at the NRA annual meetings. They don't recommend Blue Dot in .357 any more because the current formula developes weird spikes with the 125 bullet. That was enough for me to give up on Blue Dot entirely.

[quickshot]

I use anywhere between 9-13gr blue dot with a 55gr pill in lc brass in my bolt gun. It all depends on what I'm doing. Don't own an AR nor do I really have any interest in getting one. In my .308 I use 19.5 gr under a lee c309-150 checked. still tweaking that one. gives me around 1.5" @50.