Lead hardness and accuracy?

[moonclip]

I'm shooting 300 blk with the lee 230 gn boolit. It's being seated on IMR 4227. Barrel twist is 1 in 7. For lead I'm using WW. I think it has some sticky back weights in it too, cuz it seems soft. I've shot some with with lee alox and some with PC. Accuracy with both is horrible. I worked up load to shoot them faster, and they start to tumble.

So.... Question is. If I get some Lyman #2 or some Linotype, will I be able to get some better accuracy?

[Cherokee]

I would try a harder alloy for the rifle. Some tin and antimony will make it harder and grip the fast twist better. You didn't mention it but I guess you got some leading too that shoud go away.

[Tatume]

I run 2/3/95 tin/antimony/lead at 2250 fps in the 358 Winchester with very good accuracy, and some leading. The same alloy at 1800 fps gives excellent accuracy and no leading. Bullets are cast in the RCBS 35-200-FN mold and air cooled.

I suggest you add some tin and antimony, but don't worry about getting extremely hard. My bullets are around 12-13 BHN.

[MUSTANG]

Moonclip, as a place to start:

1. Have you measured the size of your cast boolits? You should be going .002 or so over your bore diameter.

2. When casting, try dropping the boolit from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket with 1/2 to 2/3 water. Your Wheel Weights should have some antimony and a slight amount of arsenic which will harden the boolit when quenched in water.

3. Is your mold a gas check style? Are you using gas checks?

[runfiverun]

nope.
speed up the powder and slow down the load.
I'm using 3.5 grs of 700-x it's as slow as I can go.
if I swap from a rifle primer to a pistol primer it goes too slow and the groups fall apart.
I can speed the load up some and do fine but that wasn't my intent with this load.

if I speed things up I switch to the rcbs 30-165 silhouette boolit, the accuracy stays.

[dh2]

I tried the same mold for my .300 AAC Blackout, I started casting them from COWW water cool them and sizing them .309 they went all over the target, I tried bring then up to 15Bhn. by adding super hard to my alloy but my best improvement was from tumble lubing them and loading them un sized.

[LAGS]

Please read my latest post in the thread,
"First Whelen Cast Loads"
I think that might explain what I have found related to Hardness and accuracy.

[moonclip]

Thanks I'll try that. Already thought about shooting them unsized. Think I'll try a different metal too.

[moonclip]

Runfiverun. Ya think that will cycle my ar?

[popper]

Moonclip - IMHO the Lee BT is the problem. The BT rivits, even sub the pressure gets up there pretty good. I'm using 6/2 & 8/2 Iso/Pb with some Cu added (close to SOWW, H.T.'d & PC'd) to get 1900+ from 1:7 BO (4227). "Smoke' from the 1:7 is much greater than from the 1:10 BO, but accuracy is about the same - stripping at the chamber? 3% Sb vs 2% Sb (H.T.'d & PC) GC'd gets me above 2400 in 308W, accuracy was poor @ 2% - I assume striping.
edit: Some OP was using that mould 3x PCing and got great results, BT was almost removed in sizing. Even subs are in the 38K CUP region, think of shooting GC base sans GC.

[runfiverun]

not a chance of it cycling an ar.

your gonna have to think about what you need versus what you want.
you need gas volume to operate the rifle.
you want to get the boolit out the barrel below 1,000 fps.? if not I'd change boolits.
you have to balance that out with a powder that burns clean enough to not foul the works.

as far as a harder alloy, it will help you with feeding and it can help with any base issues from firing the round, and it may help with diameter issues.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

This is a bit like asking whether talkativeness makes for a successful marriage. The answer is yes, if everything else is right.

If the bullet is just the right fit (i.e. from groove diameter to the .002in. larger which has been mentioned), probably the harder the alloy and higher its melting point the better. If there is any clearance on the bottom of the grooves, a softer alloy is more likely to expand under the first impact of the gases, and seal that gap. If gas escape through the grooves is permitted, it will erode the bullet and deposit atomized lead on the bore surface ahead of the bullet, ready to be ironed onto the surface by the bullet as it passes.

[leadman]

With that boolit mold you have to let the mold cool just a little longer than normal before dropping the boolits out of it. The nose tends to bend so you are shooting a wobbly boolit.
Your alloy needs to be harder, try water quenching, then oven heat treating if that doesn't work.
Accuracy will probably never be great with that boolit as it is not a very good design. The Lyman 311299 is a much better boolit.

That boolit will accept a gas check on the base and this will help it shoot better. I was able to get about 1 1/2" groups with my Savage 30-06 at 1,800 fps. Nothing great with sub-sonic.

[blikseme300]

The only way I could get boolits dropped from this mold to work OK (i.e., not so great) was to fit a GC. As I don't use a can on my rifles it was only an experimental dead end. The boolit looks sexy but did not perform for me. I have learned that pointy boolits don't work well for hunting or accuracy and have modified my rifles to allow feeding of lighter boolits with a good meplat.

[John Boy]

All you need to know about the subject ... http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[moonclip]

Ok you said I need to figure out what I need and want. Here is my goals for my loads.
1. Cheap cast bullet
2. 2 Moa or better
3. Cycle my ar. Would be really nice.
4. Sub or super, I don't really care.
5. Powder, don't really care.

Im willing to tinker a bit to get that, I'd sure like to hear what ya think. That 311299 looks great I've also looked at 311332.

[blikseme300]

I use the NOE 311-155GC sized to .310 and lubed with Carnauba Red for most of my 300blk shooting on top of 17gn of Reloder 7 ignited by CCI400 primers. My 3 AR-15's work well with this combo and I have taken several hogs using this. Nothing special about the riles, 16" carbines, and I use economy mags with reliable feeding. This same cartridge combo works just fine through a friends SBR also.

One of my rifles has modified feed ramps and I can use the RD311-165 through it. This rifle was my 1st AR-15 and has seen much abuse but still keeps going. Taken a number of hogs and deer with this combo and it plain works.

[wlc]

Ok you said I need to figure out what I need and want. Here is my goals for my loads.
1. Cheap cast bullet
2. 2 Moa or better
3. Cycle my ar. Would be really nice.
4. Sub or super, I don't really care.
5. Powder, don't really care.

Im willing to tinker a bit to get that, I'd sure like to hear what ya think. That 311299 looks great I've also looked at 311332.

What barrel length/gas length set up do you have? If you have a pistol length system then you will have more options for powders than in a carbine length gas system. 1680 has been the most reliable for me for subs out of a 16 inch carbine length gas barrel. I can get other powders (5744, 4227, RL7, et al) to cycle easily, but getting them to cycle and stay sub sonic is not so easy (at least for me with my rifle).

I've had that same Lee mold and my solution for accuracy with it was to find a different mold. With the Lee bullet I was shooting patterns and not groups. The mold I have now is basically the same bullet, but it lacks the BT of the Lee and has traditional lube grooves. I've shot 1-1.5" 20 shot groups with this one out of my rifle at 50 yards (my back yard range limit) I haven't tried it any further. BTW, I generally cast from COWW or a mix of COWW AND SOWW with added tin and size to .309 (the next batch I'm going to see if sizing to .310 does any better. I don't water drop.