Picking a Hunting Bullet for a Winchester 94AE

[KLR]

My wife gave me a Winchester 94AE for Christmas (apparently I'd been better than I thought), and now I'm working up a hunting load. My son gave me some Ranch Dog 165gr but they are too blunt to feed reliably. I have to seat them deeply otherwise they heavily engrave and take a hard lever squeeze to chamber. At that point they are too short to feed reliably.

I upset a slug in the chamber and took the following measurements:

(Brass trimmed to 2.020 Measured from outside of rim.)


Outside of rim to start of throat taper = 2.090
End of brass to start of throat taper = .070 (could be .050 if I trim to 2.039 max length)

Length of throat = .050
Barrel slugs at .3085x.301

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp330/305178/3f8a4b08-0acc-4737-94ad-6ecf6c9f1046_zps0b97ab1e.jpg (http://s424.photobucket.com/user/305178/media/3f8a4b08-0acc-4737-94ad-6ecf6c9f1046_zps0b97ab1e.jpg.html)

So, any mold suggestions? My goal is enough accuracy and power to take small whitetail deer out to 150 yards or so. I'd like to use one of the Lee 2-cavity designs due to cost.
Thanks.

[GoodOlBoy]

Several folks have been said to have issues with the RD design in lever actions. I honestly don't know if it is the width of the meplat, or due to a long nose on it as I have never used them. I wish I could give you advice on the lee 30 caliber molds, but it is one of the calibers that my favorite mold is from another company. RCBS 30-150-CM is what I use, but it isn't exactly a budget price mold I just got lucky and got mine on sale. I do use alot of Lee molds in other calibers, just not in 30 caliber rifles.

GoodOlBoy

[runfiverun]

rcbs 30-150 fngc here too.
it runs through all of my 94's like it was designed for them.
I set mine up to crimp in the groove and engrave the nose when I chamber the round, the crimp insures the boolit doesn't stay behind.
I have a little schlock sound when I squeeze the lever shut [and a little tightness in the lever] which indicates to me everything is sliding into position properly.

the ranch-dog is designed for the marlin rifles.

[KLR]

Thanks for the info, guys.

RCBS has a $10 rebate right now. Maybe I can find a Midway coupon too.

[Scharfschuetze]

The Lyman 311041 is a good option too.

[Lonegun1894]

I have used both the Lee 150 and the Lee 170 in both Marlin 336 and Winchester 1894, and both worked well and fed fine. For some reason, the 170gr shoots a about half an inch smaller groups at 100 yds, so gets a lot more use. Mine ends up being 178grs after GC and lube are applied. I also have a Lyman 31141, which shoots just a bit better. My groups (all with irons, and from the bench) are 2-3" with the Lee 150, 2-2.5" for the Lee 170, and 1.75-2.25" with the 31141. So not enough of a difference to actually make a difference from field positions while actually hunting.

[RickinTN]

Not the least expensive route by any means but in my opinion the best.....Get in touch with Tom at Accurate molds and relay to him your dimensions and the pic of your throat cast. He can design a bullet that fits the throat of YOUR rifle. There have been many good suggestions above but the one thing that concerns me is the .301" bore of your rifle. I have both the Lee molds 150 and 170 grains as well as the 150 grain RCBS bullet and they all drop bullets with a nose of .299" to .300". In your rifle I would want a bullet with a nose at least .301" and I think .302" would be better from an accuracy standpoint. I've had best results with a bore-ride bullet when the nose results in .001" to .002" engraving.
Good Luck,
Rick

[sghart3578]

311041, the classic and the best
Lee 150 FN a close second

[KLR]

Rick,
No doubt that a custom fit mold would be the best, but right now I just can't spend that much. The small nose on the Lee molds is good news because I can lap them out to fit my bore. I just finished doing that to a Lee mold for my worn-bore Mosin Nagant with good results.

Thanks for the other suggestions, guys.

[TXGunNut]

RD had a mould more suited to the Winchester chambers, I believe it was the 311-170 but I never had a chance to try it. 311041 pretty tough to beat, NOE has a good version of it.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=1260

[RJH]

I've had great luck out of Remington Core-locked and no luck out of my cast bullets in a 30-30.

[KLR]

I've had great luck out of Remington Core-locked and no luck out of my cast bullets in a 30-30.

That crossed my mind too. For the price of a good mold, sizing die, and gas checks I could have enough jacketed bullets to hunt with for the rest of my life....

What 30-30 are you shooting, Winchester 94?

[RJH]

That crossed my mind too. For the price of a good mold, sizing die, and gas checks I could have enough jacketed bullets to hunt with for the rest of my life....

What 30-30 are you shooting, Winchester 94? That's the one

[GoodOlBoy]

Honestly I always swore by core lokts. But the last few years I have had several new boxes that I got clean pass-throughs on critters with ZERO expansion. Don't know what the heck is going on with them.

Anyway what I found with cast in 30-30s is that MOST 30 caliber molds, even fancy ones supposedly designed for them, with grain weights over 165 grains didn't want to work in my lever guns. And for some reason people want to believe that 30 caliber molds designed for 308s and 303s are just fine for lever action 30-30s when alot of times the bullet length isn't conducive to good feeding in a lever action. As for accuracy the same issue applies. 30 caliber 308 and 309 sized bullets don't seem to be NEARLY as accurate in my 30-30s as bullets size .310 or .311 depending on the rifle. Also because of rate of twist people who want to "hot rod" 30-30 loads tend to want to blame cast bullets instead of issues where grain weight and speed aren't ideal for the rate of twist. Not saying that's the case here, just saying that's alot of what I have seen.

I can't tell you the number of guys I have seen with scopes mounted on 30-30s who swore on a stack of Bibles the gun was no good. The ammo was no good. The caliber was no good. etc etc. I would usually (if they approved) take the scope off. Load up 170gr core lokts and shoot a clover leaf for them on a 50 yard target. Then load up 150-165 grain cast loads I had loaded and repeat the performance. Most of them put the scope back on and went back to banging away with some "premium" ammo at 200+ yards and repeating everything they had said before hand.

GoodOlBoy

[TXGunNut]

Most of them put the scope back on and went back to banging away with some "premium" ammo at 200+ yards and repeating everything they had said before hand.

GoodOlBoy



Guys like that generate lots of once-fired thutty-thutty brass and slightly used leverguns on the used rifle racks so it's not all bad. Every once in awhile we have to remind ourselves that you just can't fix stupid. ;-)

[KLR]

I would usually (if they approved) take the scope off. Load up 170gr core lokts and shoot a clover leaf for them on a 50 yard target. Then load up 150-165 grain cast loads I had loaded and repeat the performance. Most of them put the scope back on ....
GoodOlBoy

So this would indicate that their scope was bad. Other than for bragging rights (I can shoot better with open sights than you can with a scope...), a better test would have been to leave their scope on and shoot the clover leaf with your ammo. Then let them shoot a few rounds of your ammo. If they couldn't repeat your results then it's their shooting; if they can, it's their ammo.

[GoodOlBoy]

But KLR I would be the first to admit I MYSELF do worse with scopes 9 times out of 10 than I do with iron sights. Plus pulling the scope and using standard ammo and my cast ammo eliminates their premium ammo, the scope, the scope rings, etc as reason for the issues (and of course the shooter themselves). Kind of like when you diagnose a terminally ill computer. Sometimes you gotta take it back to the base OS and start from scratch to find out where the weak link is. It's a sad statement as well that I am having to migrate on my longer range rifles to using scopes these days due to poor eyesight.

TXGunNut I agree guys like that have kept me, my friends, family, etc provided with brass and inexpensive but good rifles for decades. Not to mention those that get REALLY mad and toss a half full box of "culprit" ammo in the trash can at the range. Afterwards it's my civic duty to make sure that horrible horrible "cheap" ammo is rendered down to raw brass, then of course I have to dispose of the brass properly.... ah the burdens of the responsible folk....

GoodOlBoy