Working Wheelgun in 357

[chickenstripe]

OK, I've been contemplating the purchase of a 357 revolver (to go with the marlin carbine). I'm partial to the older S&W686's but like the "coolness factor" of the SA or SA/DA rugers. The only decision criteria I've settled on is that it will be stainless, with a 6 round cylinder.

Barrel length of 4" or 6" has been a sticking point, (velocity of the 6" or portability of the 4"). I like the triggers of the "out-of-the-box" smith's, but feel the ruger is more rugged (but less refined). Optics mounting is not a consideration. FA's are nice, but a bit pricey. The list is long and distinguished......:roll:

Primary use would be targets of opportunity while working around my property.

Anyone out there want to muddy things up a bit more for me by throwing in their 2cents? Am I missing a viable candidate? Anyone want to shed a bit of light on the durability of any of these with hot loads, as well as the percieved recoil with either of these designs??? How about expected accuracy from either? Or anything else that may throw weight to one or the other.........:mrgreen:

[BCB]

I have a very early model Ruger Security-Six that I carry with my 1894C. I never did get them to shoot the same reload, but I did get them to shoot the same bullet—358429. I have no idea how many rounds have been put through my Ruger, but it has earned its keep. I put a set of Wolff springs in it many years ago and never looked back.
SO, you might want to look for a used Security-Six. I see one once in awhile at a resonable price. Mine is the stainless 6” model. Good-luck…BCB

[timkelley]

Think first, do you like to shoot double action or would you rather pull back the hammer? I figured out I never fired my revolvers DA.
Young with good eyes-four inch.
Older-six.

[kawalekm]

Me too! Like BCB I also have a stainless Security-six with a 6" barrel. It was my very first handgun. Her name is Betsy! I shot Lyman 358477 SWCs with it and my 1894. It's the most versatal pair of guns in my collection.
Michael

[James C. Snodgrass]

I tell ya guys you have asked a tough one here. I too do like my old security six but I also think the GP 100 is a little bit better balanced to me. I really like the M-27 or 28 Smith also. I would let my hand size and holster collection dictate my purchase, All of the above that I've had or have are great knock around the woods partners Good luck James

[trickyasafox]

I have a short security six- the sub 3 in barrel. I'd buy a 6in version in a heartbeat. I agree that the gp100 balance a touch better and I'd venture to say the stock trigger is a good bit better as well. That being said, they are heavier then the Security Six and a good bit more pricey.

[454PB]

I own both a Security Six and a GP-100, both with 6" barrels, and used to own a S.S. in 4". I honestly think the 4" is a better choice. Both guns are tank tough, and will last longer than me. I've done cylinder wall thickness measurements on both, and they are nearly identical. The GP has a slightly heavier frame and barrel. You can't go wrong with either gun.

[Kraschenbirn]

I've several .357s but, if I had to pare it down to just one, it would be my old flat-top 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk. Bought the gun new in 1962 and had it completely overhauled by the Ruger factory when I finally sent it in for the tranfer bar update a few years ago. It's probably not quite as accurate as my S&Ws but the Ruger SA design is nearly indestructable and the XR3 frame size makes for a comfortable back-country carry piece...whenever I'm hiking or canoeing someplace where it's legal to carry, of course [smilie=1:.

Bill

[Bass Ackward]

Primary use would be targets of opportunity while working around my property.


If this is a true statement, then I would say a 4" GP100 because of portability.

If it's a longer barrel you want, then a single action is better packin. Have I ever said I love my 97 FA? :grin:

[shooting on a shoestring]

May I suggest you consider a SP101 2&1/4 or 3"? They carry better than the 4" tubes, they are tough, and your appetite for hot loads can be satisfied in short order. "Targets of opportunity" implies a broad window for acceptable precision. Plus the smaller more portable pistol may lead you to carrying on a daily basis CCW.

I do have and carry SP101 snubbie daily, but I also have (since Christmas) a 4&5/8 New Model BH. I would consider carrying it for a short venture in a good hip holster, but would probably go with my SP101 instead.

If I was in country where big bad smelling critters such as bears were in the picture, I'd put up with packing a .45 Colt 7&1/2" BH, or a long gun.

[WyrTwister]

OK, I've been contemplating the purchase of a 357 revolver (to go with the marlin carbine). I'm partial to the older S&W686's but like the "coolness factor" of the SA or SA/DA rugers. The only decision criteria I've settled on is that it will be stainless, with a 6 round cylinder.

Barrel length of 4" or 6" has been a sticking point, (velocity of the 6" or portability of the 4"). I like the triggers of the "out-of-the-box" smith's, but feel the ruger is more rugged (but less refined). Optics mounting is not a consideration. FA's are nice, but a bit pricey. The list is long and distinguished......:roll:

Primary use would be targets of opportunity while working around my property.

Anyone out there want to muddy things up a bit more for me by throwing in their 2cents? Am I missing a viable candidate? Anyone want to shed a bit of light on the durability of any of these with hot loads, as well as the percieved recoil with either of these designs??? How about expected accuracy from either? Or anything else that may throw weight to one or the other.........:mrgreen:



S&W , hands down .

God bless
Wyr

[Three44s]

I would buy a Stainless Security Six in 2 3/4 or 4 inch for your needs.

I own a SP101 (3") and they are gems ...... but alas no adjustable sights in .38/357

For $250 I bought a high percentage blued Sec Six .... four inch ........... and really like it.

Sans bears ...... it stands shoulder to shoulder with Smith Mountain guns and Redhawks and SRH's around here ....... and it's much easier to carry!

Three 44s

[Dale53]

My choice (and I HAVE put my money where my mouth is) is a S&W 4" Model 686. Superb trigger right out of the box, great accuracy, and strength enough for any reasonable .357 Mag full house load. On top of all of that, it is "user friendly" (easy to hit with).

Dale53

[trickyasafox]

three44s I wonder if you'd want to trade security sixes :p

[Adam10mm]

Four inch GP100. The 4 vs 6 velocities won't make a difference.

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to Dale and Freek. My S&W Model 686 x 4" is my most-carried back-country revolver. These L-frame S&W's were designed around the older 357 Magnum pressure standard of 42K PSI, which was neutered down to 35K PSI in deference to the older K-frame Model 13/19/65/66 revolvers--and now the J-frame pocket blasters. Factory-loaded (W-W) 158 grain JHPs get about 1250 FPS in my revo's 4# barrel, the 42K loads get 1350-1375 FPS. THAT is as hard as I will run any S&W 357 Magnum on the L- or N-frame platforms, and I don't think I would run Marlin carbines any harder either.

Velocity loss between 4" and 6" barrels is on the order of 7%-10%.

If your tastes run toward high-end 1935-vintage Douglas Wesson-type 357 loads, get a Blackhawk. I've run loads through my Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5" exceeding 1500 FPS with Lyman #358156, and in the B-hawk there is still some throttle left. Incredibly strong revolvers, for the price they are a stone bargain.

To disclose my biases here.......the 357 Magnum is by a long margin my favorite handgun caliber, and along with the 38 Special is my most-fired cartridge outside the 22 LR. My view--the most useful and practical handgun platform ever developed is the double-action 357 Magnum revolver with 4" barrel and adjustable sights. It can do anything a handgun is asked to do at least capably, and often superbly.

[Lloyd Smale]

tough to beat a L frame smith for a 357

[chickenstripe]

I must have struck a chord here.

Thanks for all of the great information, and by all means, keep it coming!

[MT Gianni]

I've owned N frame and K frame 357's 6" and 4". Currently have a Blackhawk and a K frame 38 special model 14. I am average height but long waisted and short legged. Nothing carries for me like a 4" or 2 1/2" bbl double action. "Targets of opportunity" dictate that the gun must be with you. It can be the most accurate 475 ever made but if it's on the seat of the truck because it's too heavy and akward to carry you will miss a lot of opportunities. I have shot Ruger double actions and like them. A used Security Six remains on of the best buys out there in the handgun market. Practicing with what ever you get will bring the trigger control for those fun makes vs the oh shoot misses. Gianni

[Bret4207]

First off real guns come in 1 color- BLUE!!!:mrgreen: 2nd- Smith, Smith, Smith, Ruger. 3rd- 4".

[Thin Man]

As a companion for the Marlin carbine, I would want a revolver strong enough to digest the same loading as the rifle. The ability to use one loading for both would drive this decision. This eliminates the medium frame sizes in all makes. If I were "working" on the property, a 4 inch barrel would be less likely to get in the way of routine activities. The revolver is more likely to be worn rather than hitched over a fence post. For the target of opportunity, the 4 inch barrel will deliver all the velocity needed for close-in targets, leave the carbine for those that are not at card playing distance. I am a life-long admirer of the S&W's for their smooth double action and crisp single action trigger systems. Short summary, I would consider the "L" frame 581/586/681/686 series, or the "N" frame 27/28 models. (Did I commit a foul and leave out any models?) Final selection would depend greatly on whether you can regulate your final ammuniton loading combination for point of aim/point of impact in a fixed sight revolver, or if adjustable sights are going to be required.

[Ghugly]

I had a 4" S&W Model 28 and liked it a lot. I also had a 6" Ruger BH that was a dandy gun 'till I got goofy and scoped it. At 100 yards, I could line up 6 beer bottles and break all 6 with 6 shots. That is as good as I've ever done with a pistol of any caliber. Unfortunately, the scope took away most of its charm and I ended up trading it off. The Ruger was way more accurate than I will ever be.

[Curly James]

I would have to agree with everything Al says and then some, it is simply the most versatile cartridge for a handgun available and if you are a handloader and boolit caster there are even more options available.

[GP100man]

for a woods & farm bummin gun ,no ? a 5.5barreled SS blackhawk in 357or 41 mag!!!!
have you seen the cyls on dem guns !!!???? theyll hold for a long time!!!!
then again thats what makes em a little hefty to lug all day.
guess ill stick with my 4" GP .

GP100man :cbpour:

[Adam10mm]

I wish they made a GP100 in .41 Magnum.

[45 2.1]

I wish they made a GP100 in .41 Magnum.

They did. I heard of one for sale. Tool room item sold off to employees was the story.

[yarro]

For strength I would go with a Ruger GP-100. For Trigger pull, I would go with an S&W. I have both and wish that the Ruger had the trigger system of the Smiths.

-Yarro

[Adam10mm]

They did. I heard of one for sale. Tool room item sold off to employees was the story.
They should make them as a production item.

[MtGun44]

Early 686s used a fairly soft stainless alloy and will not hold headspace
real well with lots of hot .357 loads. Basically the portion of the crane that
the cylinder pivots on is a very thin tube, and is too soft. The tube peens
and the cylinder develops endshake. You can take this out with shims, or
by roll swaging the tube to stretch it back to normal and take out the
endshake. The guns are strong as far as "blowing up", but the soft cranes
mean that large quantities of heavy loads will eventually cause endshake
problems. Later 686s use harder alloy and there is no problem.

I really like my 586 + (7 shot) but my Security Six that I polished up the
internals with 600 grit wet or dry on a piece of glass and added a Bullseye
spring kit is a really smooth one with great accy.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Bret--

You forgot a make--COLT. If a Python or old-model Trooper were sent my way, I would be hard-put to pass on same.

Stainless S&W's are the TRUE dishwasher-safe sidearm. Glock receivers can melt while drying if not placed in the top rack.

[chickenstripe]

MtGun44, can you be more specific concerning the "early" and "later" 686's... If I were to get something used... which is very likely, which model numbers should I steer clear of?
686-no dash
686-1
686-2
686-3..... etc.

cs

[KCSO]

In country where there are no sudden threats from man eating animals there is nothing wrong with a single action revolver. In Bear country they are a tad slower to get into action but either style needs practice to work. I would prefer a good M28 to 586 4" over any other 357 for field use. The Smith double action is about the best there is and either gun will last a couple of lifetimes. I am not a big 357 fan although i carried one foe several years. In a 4" barrel the 357 has no advantage over a 38-44 load in most cases. I would prefer a 200+ bullet at 900FPS+ over any 158 at 1200. The muzzle blast of a full house 357 causes more flinching than the actual recoil. I would not choose a M19 or other small frame revolver in 357 as, if you practice as you should the gun will be shot loose in a year or so. My current woods loafer gun is either a K38 or a Smith M22 and I think that the M22 is an ideal gun, but I had a 1917 that I loved many years ago. I still carry a whell gun on duty at times and have never felt disadvantaged and I have packed a whell gun over the rockie a time or two and it let me sleep secure many nights in the way back. Our backpacking trio carried a Smith 44, a Smith 45 and a Ruger 357.

In single action guns you can't beat the regular Blackhawk revolver. Get the trigger tuned to 3 pounds and polish and lap the forcing cone and it will do the job.

[tommag]

I have had two security sixes, a 4" and a 6" stainless that I still have. I gave $225 for the 6" and think it's one of the best bargains I've gotten. It's a little long for concealed carry, but it rides on my hip most of the time when I'm home.(we live up in the woods) My wife wears it when I'm on the road, even though she has her own pistols and revolvers.

The only thing I don't like about the security six is the bbl is noticably constricted where the stuff is stamped into the bbl. It's still accurate enough for what we use it for, though.

[Three44s]

tommag,

This book might be right up your alley:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

Goto the left bar and click on book.

***********************

Trickyasafox,

Thank you ..... .......... But .... I am real happy with my four inch.

But at the prices and as many as Ruger made ..... I think you can find any model you chose given enough time and perseverence.

Best of luck and best regards

Three 44s

[Poohgyrr]

The old Ruger .357s can be found at good prices. And a good used Smith can be a good buy. Grips make a big difference to me in control and comfort.

I'd look for a good used 4" 686 if I had to have stainless. Otherwise, I'd keep using my 4" M19-3, be happy, and spend my savings on reloading componants. A 3 1/2" or4" N frame, nickled maybe, would also make me smile.

[wheelgunner]

I've got 14 S&W's including four "L" frame Smiths. A 686 6", 686 2 3/4", 586 Nickel 6" and a 586 blue 6". The blue 6 inch I made into a PPC revoler. I removed the sights, added a Bomar rib, narrowed and polished the trigger and dehorned and polished the hammer, slicked out the action. Left the barrel stock and only lightly chamfered the cylinder. This gun has 200,000+ rounds through it, mostly .38 wadcutters but a fair # of .357's shot a bowling pins. It will still shoot 6 rounds that you cover with a quarter from the Ransom rest at 50'.

I added a barrell weight and action job to the nickel one and have 100,000+ through that one, mostly 230 grain "trash can" bullets loaded into .38 cases at .357 LOA used for bowling pins. Other than springs (wolff) I haven't had to change out a single part.

All my L frames are pre-lock, pre-MIM, I don't what effect, if any, the lock and MIM will have on quality, but theres tons of older L frames out there. Needless to say I can't recommend the Smith's more

[Bret4207]

Bret--

You forgot a make--COLT. If a Python or old-model Trooper were sent my way, I would be hard-put to pass on same.

Stainless S&W's are the TRUE dishwasher-safe sidearm. Glock receivers can melt while drying if not placed in the top rack.

Al, with all due respect, and recalling I own several Colts, I DIDN'T forget. He wants a work gun in 357. Colts out for that type stuff, at least in my price range. Around here the "Python Mystique" still prevails. I'll take a nice m-19 or 27/28 over ANY Python ANY day!

Yer Pal, Tpr. Bret, not a fan of Pythons!

[pipehand]

[QUOTE=KCSO;293194 The muzzle blast of a full house 357 causes more flinching than the actual recoil. [QUOTE]

+1 on that. My current 357's are one 686 6", one 27-2 6" and a Ruger 50th 4-5/8
that i prefer to load at less than 1050 fps. All three do nicely with the Saeco 353 mould at 185grains without the crack of the lighter and faster loads. For packing, the Ruger gets picked most often, but I realy would like the 686 in a four inch lightweight barrel. I don't particularly like the stainless ramp front sight with the red insert. I picked up the 27-2 recently because I really liked the light tapered barrel contour and the beautiful patridge front sight. I would really like to set up the 686 as a slightly scaled down version of the 625 Mountain Gun. Anyone have any ideas about where to get an L-frame 4' tapered barrel?

[rbstern]

S&W Model 66 is what I shoot most. It's a terrific gun. My 357 plinkers are moderate (12.5 grains of 820 under a Lee 158 SWC) and incredibly accurate. The gun mostly sees cast 38 specials. If the S is HTF, that's the gun I want in my holster. Any of the loads I shoot in that gun are tested for reliability and accuracy in my Rossi 1892.

[chickenstripe]

+1 on the colt comments. I had one lock up on me after 500rds, can't seem to forget that. Also, around here, if you can find one, they're very pricey....

[sd5782]

Yes you saw that correctly, 5". Several years ago Ruger made a special run of 5 inch GP 100's, stainless, and full underlug. I also was torn between the 4" and 6", so I got my order in for the 5 incher. Balance is about perfect. I am just a plinker, but I think it would be a fine field gun. You probably can't find them used however.

[Cracker]

Being the owner of a GP100(SS 4"), a SP101(SS 2") and a OM Ruger BisleyVaquero(4 5/8" blue) all in .357, my absolute favorite AND most comfortable to shoot with horsed up rifle loads(180grRNFPgc/13.5grH110) is the old model BisleyVaquero.

I am going to pick up a 6" GP this summer as an experiment as the extra muzzle weight may make a difference accuracy/muzzleflip. I am not sure how it will work out in the endgame for a toting gun due to the extra weight though.

But for my walking in the woods pistola I always grab the BV as I have no doubt that it will eat the same diet as my Marlin 1894CP and is superbly accurate.

With that said, if your primary goal is defense against two legged preditors I would definatly opt for a DA pistol just for legal reasons, if it is to be a bumming around farm gun I would go for a Blackhawk, Bisley, BisleyVaquero or Vaquero (old models for durability and whichever fits your hand best) with a 4 5/8" barrel in SS

[45r]

I like my old model 27 S&W.It shoots ragged hole groups with the lyman 358156 and 2400.It does as well with 180 PB Mtn mold boolits and 185 GC's also using unique for the secant and H-110 for the GC.It was made when they looked as good as they shoot.If you can find one in good shape I think you would be happy to buy one.

[Dale53]

One thing that I would emphasize in a .357 handgun is adjustable sights. I shoot lots of .38 Specials in my .357's and always want my revolver to shoot to the sights.

I have a .45 Colt Bisley Vaquero and feel quite fortunate that it shoots to the sights at 25 yards. That is something, however, that you cannot depend on. Fixed sights on a revolver CAN be regulated but it is for ONE LOAD ONLY and sometimes it is a real pain.

So, for me, an all around handgun (which the .357 can certainly be) absolutely requires a good set of adjustable sights.

Dale53

[7BRU]

I wish they made a GP100 in .41 Magnum.

can they? sure would like that one.

BRU

[centershot]

Chickenstripe,
After reading this thread, I'm sure you'll agree that there is a huge load of good information here, much of it coming from personal experience. Everyone has their "I wishes...." and " It would be nice if......"; ultimately it comes down to what YOU perceive as the "right" solution.

Personally, if I were looking for the gun you describe, I would have to look no further than my nightstand. There resides the Ruger Security-six that has been my companion for over twenty years. I've ownrd several 357's over the years, S&W's, Colts and Rugers and currently have two, the 6" Security-Six and a 4" S&W M28 that I bought used at a bargain price. I won't part with either of them, but 95% of the time it's the Ruger that gets to go out and play! After 20 years of use the DA is smooth, the SA is crisp & light and it has never had any work done to it, maintenance or otherwise! Feed, clean, lube, that's it! It's the right package, light enough, powerful enough, accurate. And, I agree with the folks advocating heavy bullets; my standard 357 load (carbine & handgun) is 11.0 gr #2400 with a 180 gr TCBB bullet. That load si accurate in all three guns that it is intended for!

Go find yourself a 6" SS Security-Six, you won't be disappointed, and it will be worth the wait!



centershot

[S.B.]

For coolness and antiquity affect, don't forget the S&W model 27s?

A couple of mine:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/1841027_s.jpg

[Poohgyrr]

I like my old model 27 S&W. :::: If you can find one in good shape I think you would be happy to buy one.



+1

:drinks:

[Steve Collins]

My old 4" model 19 is my favorite woods and bumming around gun. I got some custom Herrett's stocks for it, and I carry it right now with Elmer's load of 13.5gr of 2400 and a 173gr Keith SWC. It kicks some, but shoots dead on at 25 yards. It carries just right, and I like it. I just saw a 6" blue one for sale, I'm thinking I may have to get that one as well...:mrgreen:

[Dale53]

I am a "Form follows function" kind of guy and the question revolves around field use. That, to me, means some amount of portability and potential need for usable accuracy. That means a minimum of a 4" barrel and a maximum of a 4" barrel (see how that works:mrgreen:). My vote is for stainless (this is a using gun, right?) and my choice is S&W 686.

As Spock would say, "Logic"...

Dale53

[chickenstripe]

I do believe I'm leaning toward the 4" 686..... I've been hearing horror stories about QC on the new models, so I'm going to look for something used.

I'd like to get a -5, but we'll see what I happen across.

Thanks for all of the input fellas....

[Scrounger]

You might want to check out the Ruger GP100 while you're at it.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o9/artcompton/RugerGP-100.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o9/artcompton/GP100.jpg

[Dale53]

I wouldn't be put off by "horror stories". One of the "Upsides" of the Internet is all of the information out there. One of the "Downsides" of the internet is all of the information out there.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Smith seldom gets it wrong and when they do they have an excellent warranty in place. I have purchased at least FIVE relatively new S&W revolvers in the last year and they are each and everyone a joy to shoot.

Buy a 686 in confidence.

Dale53

[crabo]

I've got a 586, 686, and a 642, and a PC 629, all great guns. I would not hesitate to buy another S&W. (the new Thunder Ranch 45 acp wheelgun is looking pretty good!)

Crabo

[dukers65]

i really liked the gp100 stainless 4" ,it shot circles around my model 28,however that is just me, all of the guns mentioned will do a good job.the easy answer is
is buy one of each,and keep the one you feel most comfortable with.