Lead 20:1 ???? whats yours?

[wyoduster]

I just checked my lead.. I have a pile of it most all of it is 10:1 in hardness.
Think thats too hard for my 40-65 and other BPC rifles.

[Don McDowell]

I use mostly 20-1 and 16-1.

[Outpost75]

I use 40:1 lead/tin in my cowboy revolvers and rifles, .44-40, .45 Colt and. 38 Special.

['74 sharps]

I use 40:1 lead/tin in my cowboy revolvers and rifles, .44-40, .45 Colt and. 38 Special.


+1....Works great......

[semtav]

I just checked my lead.. I have a pile of it most all of it is 10:1 in hardness.
Think thats too hard for my 40-65 and other BPC rifles.

Thats great for PP to groove.

[country gent]

I use 20-1 in my 40-65 with great results. Shoots very well and casts easily. The thing is to test others and let the rifle tell you what it likes and what works. Testing can go along ways with alloies and rifles.

[cajun shooter]

To me the biggest thing about any alloy that you decide to use should be based on your testing and not what others use. Take and make small batches of the alloys that you are interested in trying and then go to the range. If a alloy works well and gives you perfect fill in your molds, that is step one.
The next thing and this is the big one, what are the results you receive in "YOUR GUNS". Does it give you bullets that are filled and easy to cast? Does it obturate to the point of riding and sealing the bore? Does it give you the best accuracy that you and your rifle are capable of?
If it answers these questions to your satisfaction, then that is the alloy you should work with. Take care David

[Gunlaker]

Do you mean it's a 10:1 lead/tin mix? If so you could save some money and just add more lead to make it 20:1. Or is it a mix with Antimony in it that works out to be as hard as 10:1?

Like Don, I usually use 20:1 or 16:1. From what I understand, the hardness won't increase a lot beyond 16:1. I do remember reading of shooters in the original days of Creedmoor shooting using up to 11:1. That would be with bore diameter patched bullets, but with heavy powder charges.

if I were mixing new alloy I'd start at 20:1 personally.

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

I like 96-2-2 Pb-Sn-Sb but something with a little less or more can work too.
My rule is to not have the tin exceed the antimony in the mix.
I have shot plenty of 25-1, 20-1 and 16 to 1 and tested them alongside the tin/antimony alloys. I have good results with all.
I mostly shoot the 96-2-2 for important matches.

FWIW - I also have used a LBT direct read-out BHN tester since 1985 and it is just second nature to stay on top of hardness. The 96-2-2 is the easiest- most time stable alloy to use and that is why I like it.
You might like something else. ....and that is what is fun about shooting matches with people that are dead sure "how it is done".

There are a lot of "right" ways to do something. As long as you have a smile on your face you are doing it right.

Merry Christmas

[Chill Wills]

cajun shooter (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?5920-cajun-shooter)

You have been gone for a while and now you are posting again. Good to see your posts. I hope you are healthy!

[kokomokid]

CW, What does the 96-2-2 test on the hardness scale? I use a Lee type tester and find a little Sb helps on the money bullets. Are you buying a 50/50 alloy Sb-Sn to mix your alloy?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If we are talking only lead and tin, there are few rifle applications for which the 20:1 mix wouldn't work. More tin is a shade harder up to 10:1, and is harmless, but costs most of us more money. That is the main snag of lead-tin alloys, for wheelweights and linotype etc. may provide cheap ways of acquiring alloys hardened (if necessary to considerably greater hardness) with antimony. But I don't know any cheap ways of getting tin. It is also possible that paper patches will cut more easily with hard alloys.

If you hunt, antimony-rich alloys are more inclined to break up, while lead-tin would merely deform a bit, and pure lead would deform a bit more. It really only matters with very heavily boned animals. The heavier the alloy, the better the ballistic coefficient of the bullet. So if you have various lots of mystery metals, even if the hardness tests out the same, the best thing is to melt, mix and ingot everything, so that you don't someday have a bullet following an unexpected trajectory.

Some of the early African hunters used to harden bullets with mercury, which worked and marginally raised rather than reduced the specific gravity. But getting eaten or squashed flat are relatively classy ways to die, compared with mercuric poisoning.

[Gunlaker]

It's interesting to hear about the 96-2-2 alloy again. I remember Dan talking about it, or a similar mix, some time back but never tried it myself. I do know of a fellow who has done a lot of testing ( he makes his own barrels too ) and he uses a significantly harder alloy than I do, even with bore diameter PP bullets. He showed me some recovered bullets that were well engraved and showed no gas cutting.

It's interesting also to hear that it's your most stable alloy. I was recently reading a paper on solder joint stability for different alloy types. They were mostly concerned with solder joints becoming brittle as they aged, but the ideas are similar. They also found that annealing the aged alloy would return it to it's previous hardness and ductility.

Chris.

[Naphtali]

I just checked my lead.. I have a pile of it most all of it is 10:1 in hardness.
Think thats too hard for my 40-65 and other BPC rifles.What is the Brinell of your lead?

[montana_charlie]

The 96-2-2 is the easiest- most time stable alloy to use and that is why I like it.
CW, What does the 96-2-2 test on the hardness scale?
Again, passing along information created or discovered by Dan Theodore ...

He did a long test of alloys that contain Sb, and found that those with equal percentages of Sb and Sn were the most stable in hardness, after an initial 'curing' period.
The one which had more Sb than Sn was radically unstable.

His favorite alloy for bullets with 'delicate' noses ... such as the Money bullet ... is 97/1.5/1.5, which he calls his three-seven alloy because it's made with seven parts pure lead and three parts Lyman #2.

The following chart (also his product) gives you an idea of the hardness you can expect.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/Graphof4AlloysBHNOverTime-1_zpsc8038fe2.jpg

CM

[kokomokid]

I was just thinking that 96-2-2 would be about like mixing Lyman#2 1 for 1 with pure lead. LB

[montana_charlie]

I was just thinking that 96-2-2 would be about like mixing Lyman#2 1 for 1 with pure lead. LB
That would make 95/2.5/2.5

[cajun shooter]

Chill Wills, I thank you for the welcome back. Yes I've been gone for over two years due to some serious health problems. I have 4 disc, L2,L3,L4 & L5 that have no tissue left in them and are bone to bone contact. The pain was so intense that I was not even able to stand at the sink to shave and brush my teeth.
On top of that, the doctors hit the nerve in my spinal column that goes to my diaphragm and it caused the right side to collapse into my body cavity. this has the effect of stopping my right lung from working and leaving me breathing on the left side only.
They installed a new pain pump in me on Nov. 10th and I'm now able to walk for short distances and stand with out the unreal pain. This will allow me to once again start shooting BP in my SASS matches.
If there is one thing that I can't wait to do is see all the shooters standing behind me on the firing line to watch my stage and then jump back when that first round goes off. Ha!! Ha!!

We had one stage that is enclosed on all sides except the rear which is were you shoot from . We had some new shooters one day and they had about 8 persons inside this enclosure until I fired my first round. After that they only had the RO and myself left. BP is so much fun!!!! Take Care David

[rfd]

tried everything from #2 to 1:40 and my 45-70's prefer 1:30 that i mix up using roto-metal tin and lead.

it's all good, let yer guns tell ya what they prefer.

[ColColt]

cajun-I thought my recent experience this summer with them stripping out the Great Saphenous vein to use for a bypass in my leg was a bad experience. It pales compared to yours.

I've always used 1:20 primarily with an occasional experimentation with 1:30. Both have worked well.

[Lead pot]

Antimony is great for holding the integrity of the ogive. I does not take much. Just a little as 5% in a one pound roll of 95/5 (95 % tin 5 % antimony) no lead solder will hold the nose mixed in 20# of lead as well as 1/16 T/L will and still engrave the bullet fully for good rotation patched to bore diameter.
Chris ole DT must have changed his mind about using Antimony in bullets :-D I still have a post about his comments in my files someplace with the rhubarb he gave me when I said antimony is a benefit in lead bullets. :-D

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_0223-5.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/940Leadpot/media/IMG_0223-5.jpg.html)