Colt Trooper Vs Python

[bouncer50]

I have both, A 6 inch Python and Trooper they both have the same trigger pulls in my opinion. Why the big prices on used one is the Python worth four times as much:veryconfu I also have a L frame smith that is just as good as the Colts. Can any one explain to me the big deal about the Python. To me their just over price not the holy grail of pistol. Is Python a gun to try to tell people you have the best. I all ways look for the the best deal with my hard earn money:bigsmyl2: Hand fitting on the Python really worth the extra money yet they get out ot time faster and it take a real gunsmith to fix them. When some people have a Python they think It make them a expert shot. I have out shot them with my Ruger, Smith etc. It not the gun but the person who know how to shoot. In my younger days on the pistol range the loser buys the winner lunch the other guy got tried of my buying my lunch. They said they would not bet any more. Back then i was shooting about 1000 rounds per week practice made me a good shot not the gun.:bigsmyl2: I still like a wheel gun over a auto target shooting i still old school on gun. But my carry gun is a 45 auto. :?

[Outpost75]

The Trooper was a good, sturdy service gun, not as nicely finished as the Python.

In the same vein that the S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman was less finely finished than the Model 27. Still a great gun.

[Char-Gar]

Colt made several excellent handguns on their 41/I frame. There was the Army Special, Official Police, the Officers Model, the 357 Magnum, the Trooper and the Python.

The Trooper was really an Officers's Model Match with a 4" barrel available in both 38 Special and 357 Magnum. It was designed for the police market and those who wanted adjustable sights on their revolvers with the two caliber options. They were and are first rate high accurate handguns.

There were some differences between the 38 Special and 357 Magnum Troopers, such as hammer nose mounted vs. frame mounted firing pins and heat treatment of the steels.

The Python was just a gussied up revolver with a high gloss blue finish and a vent rib barrel. The extra money charged was really just for the cosmetic looks. Somewhere along the way, folks started to think it was better and more accurate than other vintage Colts, but this was never the case.

All the above Colt models were hand fitted and that is the reason they are no longer available. Colt did not make the jump to CNC machining and they all proved to be to costly to make and sell.

I have owned multiple examples of all the above Colt handguns and the Old Model Trooper remains my favorite. It was at one time called "The Poor Man's Python". I have never managed to keep a Python over the long term as they just didn't perform any better than one of the less costly Colts or Smith and Wessons. The Python mystique is a total myth, not born out by facts and actual shooting. Some fool was willing to pay big money for my Pythons, so away they went.

I do however have an excellent 1956 vintage Trooper shown below wearing vintage Roper grips. It is a great sixgun. It is of course a 38 Special handgun.

[dubber123]

I've never owned a Colt. I prefer the looks and feel of a S&W. I had a chance about 12 years back for a mint 4" Python for $400. I handled it, I pondered, and I passed. The grip and action just didn't do it for me. I've always wondered at the mythical status it holds. I loved the blue on it, and it seemed well fitted. I have a pile of S&W's that will shoot under 1" at 25 yds. and a few that get close to that at 50. I don't think I'll be paying the asking prices for a Python any time soon. And if you are wondering, I'm not just a cheapskate, I have a few revolvers that would buy a few Pythons each. There will always be a market for them, and I'm glad there are shooters that cherish them and keep them in good shape.

[enfieldphile]

The buyer market is driven by many factors.

The Python & Diamondback just have a certain mystique that drives prices to outlandish levels. A 586/686 S&W will outshoot and outlast a Python. A 18 or 17 S&W will outshoot a Diamondback any day, but the Python or Diamondback brings 4X + the $$ value of the Smith.

The old S&W 29's of the late 70's would get out of time fairly fast, often the cylinder opening up from a steady diet of Magnum loads! A Ruger SBH would just keep on shooting. Back then, you could buy 4 SBH's for the bootleg prices they were getting for a model 29. But Dirty Harry used a 29!

[MtGun44]

I have and like both Colts and S&Ws, and work on both actions in detail. The Colt
is, as Char-gar said one that requires skilled hand fitting. Also, the design, if not timed
VERY accurately at the factory (and most were) will shoot loose sooner than S&Ws.
Colt cylinders are fully hard locked at the moment of firing and S&Ws are not. If the
cyl hole is just a skosh off to the side, the Colt will slap the hand or cyl lock HARD as
the boolit forces them to align. In the S&W, they designed in a bit of slop so that the boolit
does the last tiny bit of alignment, if needed, without pounding anything. If a Colt is aligned
well, and most were, they stay timed for a very long time. If off a bit, they won't stand up
as long, and parts internally are much more dependent on each other for proper timing and
lockup.

Colts just have to have skilled hand fitting and that is too expensive these days. S&Ws
are less critical, and with modern precision manufacturing most S&Ws can be just assembled
with minimal to no hand fitting.

Please don't take this as a slam on Colts, they are just from a different time. Like the fine old
Kentucky rifles, all hand made, they are not easily made in quantity, so have passed from the
scene. I don't expect the old Colt designs to ever be reborn, too expensive. Enjoy and value
them for what they are, artifacts of a different time when hand work was just the way things
were done.

Bill

[charlie b]

I do love my Python. But, I didn't pay for it either. Inherited from my fatherinlaw who inherited it from a childhood mentor.

Have not figured out how accurate it is cause it shoots better than I can.

Is it better than others? It does have a better trigger than most other stock guns I have shot (various Rugers and S&Ws and Taurus). IMHO it is the prettiest revolver. Lusted after one since I was in grade school.

Is it worth a lot more than others? Dont know and dont care.

[Frank46]

I've heard that the trooper (mine is a trooper III) was a poor man's python. All I know is my trooper III although finnish challenged does shoot nice and before ebay stopped the selling of gun parts some years back I got lucky and got an almost new barrel,cylinder,hammer and some small parts. Frank

[shtur]

Char-Gar said it all. S&W's parts are available, and less expensive than Colt parts. S&W's can be worked on by most mechanically inclined people.
I shoot an older Trooper and a model 14. The Trooper is heavier, more steel than the S&W. One shoots 1/16 inch smaller groups than the other...who cares, they both shoot great.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've heard that the trooper (mine is a trooper III) was a poor man's python.

I think that Trooper MKIIIs had a different lock work than the original Troopers/Pythons. I was issued one while with a federal agency. Although I never took it apart to look at the insides, I'm pretty sure that was completely different than its predecessor. Might be wrong though as it's been just a few years since I carried it. Can anyone confirm that?

I used a 6" Python with the Elieson sight for the service pistol class of the PPC course for a few years, but when the L Frame S&Ws came out, I sold the Python.

[bobthenailer]

I was told by a good gunsmith that the Trooper was a stronger gun than a Python !
Of the several friends who owned a Python and shot them to any degree that usually the first thing to go was cylinder timing. They sure are a handsome revolver though.

[youngmman]

The Trooper was a good, sturdy service gun, not as nicely finished as the Python.

In the same vein that the S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman was less finely finished than the Model 27. Still a great gun.

I have a variety of pistols in various calibers but my absolute favorite is a S&W 357 Highway Patrolman I bought used about 15 years ago. When loaded with the LBT 155 gr WFN over 9.7gr of Blue Dot it is easily the most accurate pistol I have. I tuned it for cast bullets including lapping the barrel, smoothing the forcing cone with the Brownells kit and ensuring the chambers were slightly larger than groove diameter. It sounds like a lot of work but it's really not and results in an outstanding shooter. These things could be done to any revolver.

[Char-Gar]

Oh shoot, another post on the Smith and Wesson Model 28 (Highway Patrolman). The first center fire revolver I ever owned (I started with a Remington-Rand 1911A1) was a 4 " version of the same. That was about 1961 or so. I have not been without one or more examples of this great revolver since that date. Today I am down to two, a 4" and a 6" and during their production, they were the best value dollar in handguns in America.

If you want to purchase one of these, talk to my widow after my D-Mise for that is when they will be available.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've heard that the trooper (mine is a trooper III) was a poor man's python. All I know is my trooper III although finnish challenged does shoot nice and before ebay stopped the selling of gun parts some years back I got lucky and got an almost new barrel,cylinder,hammer and some small parts. Frank

The Trooper MK III uses a completely different lock work than a Python. The MK III uses coil springs as opposed to the flat "V" spring of a Python. In some ways the lock-work may be tougher than a Python but it doesn't hold the same place in the collector's market.
The MKIII was far less expensive to produce than the Python but the basic gun is actually fairly strong. I'm not a "Colt" guy but I have a few Colts, including a MKIII that was my father's gun. Despite its non-Python pedigree, the MKIII is not a bad 357.
I prefer Rugers and S&W's but the MKIII can be a good value.

[waco]

I have a very nice 6" Colt King Cobra in SS. Super slick action and a trigger that breaks like a glass rod. It's my only Colt revolver but I love it.

[Char-Gar]

When Colt could not longer afford to make DA revolvers the way they had for generations, they tried to stay in the game with new designs of which the Trooper MK III and the King Cobra were two. The first versions of the new lock work failed miserably in the market place, but Colt improved them until they had a decent product. But, Colt was to late out of the starting gate and could never catch Smith and Wesson and Ruger. Plagued by union and management problems, Colt was reduced to a shadow of it's former self and a very limited line of products.

But all is not lost, for there are many, many real Colts out there and many of us continue to find them useful and delightful. They are not as sturdy as the others, but that is of little consequence to the average revolver nut.

[Char-Gar]

I was told by a good gunsmith that the Trooper was a stronger gun than a Python !
Of the several friends who owned a Python and shot them to any degree that usually the first thing to go was cylinder timing. They sure are a handsome revolver though.

That would not be true of the old model Trooper which is the subject of this thread for they are the same pistol inside. That might be true of the new Model Trooper which has different lockwork. The only similarity between the two Troopers is the name.

[Petrol & Powder]

"....Plagued by union and management problems..." pretty much sums up the demise of Colt. (and a few other New England based companies)


The Connecticut River Valley was the core of the U.S. firearms industry for a long time. Unions and mismanagement killed off some and the others mostly relocated. In some ways it is unfortunate and in other ways it is a healthy progression of the free market. Colt did make some good DA revolvers and had a huge share of the law enforcement market even into the 1960's. They didn't change with the times and suffered the effects of that bad management. Even their former contracts to supply rifles to the U.S. military have been lost to FN.

I also agree that All Is Not Lost, there are in fact many excellent old Colt products available if one wishes to seek them out.

[bouncer50]

My understanding is the trooper mk111 is the hammer and other parts inside were made from powder steel that compress like the timing gear on the old chevy v8 were made My gunsmith friend told me he had to replace some hammer and trigger in them years back. Another thing he told me was fake Python were someone had a Trooper and put a Python barrel on it and pass them off as python. As all way buyer beware.

[KCSO]

I just finished making a Troper into a Python for a fellow. Welded and re cut the frame and installed a Python barrel and tuned the action a little, and as the french say Viola a Python! That's hw much difference there is.

[Petrol & Powder]

My understanding is the trooper mk111 is the hammer and other parts inside were made from powder steel that compress like the timing gear on the old chevy v8 were made My gunsmith friend told me he had to replace some hammer and trigger in them years back. Another thing he told me was fake Python were someone had a Trooper and put a Python barrel on it and pass them off as python. As all way buyer beware.

I'm fairly certain that Trooper MK III hammers and related parts were made from forged steel and NOT a sintering process.
As for the reference to the Chevrolet small block V-8 timing gear, that is flat out incorrect. They were plastic teeth molded onto a metal center section. Clearly cheaper to mass produce but not as durable as steel gears. Not "powdered metal" but not all that great in any event. That was not one of General Motors finer engineering moments.

[Char-Gar]

I'm fairly certain that Trooper MK III hammers and related parts were made from forged steel and NOT a sintering process.
As for the reference to the Chevrolet small block V-8 timing gear, that is flat out incorrect. They were plastic teeth molded onto a metal center section. Clearly cheaper to mass produce but not as durable as steel gears. Not "powdered metal" but not all that great in any event. That was not one of General Motors finer engineering moments.

I don't know squat about engines, but when Colt first introduced the new Trooper it did indeed have sintered hammer and other internal parts. The trigger pull was very gritty and could not be smoothed out and it didn't take Colt long to replace these parts with good steel. The new Trooper got some very bad press at first because of this issue. Being an old model Trooper fan, I remember well when the new model hit the market and the issues related to it's introduction. I alluded to this in my above post, but was not specific about the use of sintered parts.

[Petrol & Powder]

Never knew that. How long did they use the sintered metal parts before returning to forgings?

[bouncer50]

Never knew that. How long did they use the sintered metal parts before returning to forgings?
They went with cast steel parts in the newer model Mark V. Ruger been doing the same process for years no problem. The sintered timing gear was on the crank shaft not the cam gear my mistake. And yes the plastic cam gear was a bad idea. I change a few of them in the old days. Funny the replacement were steel figure that out.

[Petrol & Powder]

Not to drift this all the way into an automotive thread but.....since we're talking about stupid materials:

The later model Chrysler slant-six had a plastic gear on the end of the distributor shaft. If you accidentally loosened the hold down bolt too much while you were setting the timing you could shear all the teeth off in about .1 of a second. The engine would instantly stop and not re-start. It generally happened when you were trying to set the timing on an old engine that had never been tuned and the distributor was stuck a bit. The gear was attached to the shaft with a roll pin, no big deal getting the old one off. Here's the kicker; the official Mopar replacement gear didn't have the hole for the roll pin. You had to drill a hole in the new gear and you had to get it in just the right place ! Whoever the bean counter was that came up with that cost saving move should be tarred & feathered.

[enfieldphile]

Somewhat rare, Trooper MkV, cast steel internals and very smooth and accurate. An MkV Trooper will stay in time long after the Python has been returned to Colt to be refitted and retimed.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/trooper%20Mk%20V/Trooper3.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/trooper%20Mk%20V/Trooper2.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/trooper%20Mk%20V/Trooper4.jpg

About those Mopar Nylon timing distributer gears or like chevrolet, the aluminum cam gear w/ the Nylon teeth; they used that stuff because it made the engine quiet! it had nothing to do with a cost-saving measure.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'd put up with a little bit of engine noise in exchange for longer life of the gears ! I've read that all of the slant-sixes had nylon distributor gears but my 1964 had a bronze gear. I was the second owner, maybe the first owner changed it. That's a nice looking Mark V. My MKIII looks similar. From purely outward appearances, the hammer and trigger on mine appears identical except the trigger has a smooth face on my MK III.

[Char-Gar]

I have never owned a Colt of any Mark with the new lockwork, because well they just are not Colts. They may have been made by Colt and roll stamped such, but they they are not Colts. At least from my point of view. :-) A fellow has to have some standards.

[youngmman]

Oh shoot, another post on the Smith and Wesson Model 28 (Highway Patrolman). The first center fire revolver I ever owned (I started with a Remington-Rand 1911A1) was a 4 " version of the same. That was about 1961 or so. I have not been without one or more examples of this great revolver since that date. Today I am down to two, a 4" and a 6" and during their production, they were the best value dollar in handguns in America.

If you want to purchase one of these, talk to my widow after my D-Mise for that is when they will be available.

Is She taking advanced orders?

[Char-Gar]

Is She taking advanced orders?

No! I don't want to give her any incentive to hurry the process up.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I went through the police academy with the Captain's loaner Colt Trooper Mark 3. Most of us recruits were loaned this gun when we hired on and I carried it on duty for almost a year until I bought a Ruger Security Six.

That loaner Colt Trooper Mark 3 held up the abuse all us recruits dished out. I'm sure the Captain carried it on duty for who knows how many years before he started loaning it out to the new hires.

I don't know what metals were used to manufacture the internal parts of that Mark 3. The only true steel that should ever be used in firearms is forged steel, but we are seeing cast and mim parts used in new guns that do run reliably and as much as I hate to say it, new guns come out of the box today go out on the range and in the field without the tune up new guns used to need when they came out of the box back in the late 70's through most of the 80's.

[Tatume]

I've heard that the trooper (mine is a trooper III) was a poor man's python. All I know is my trooper III although finnish challenged does shoot nice and before ebay stopped the selling of gun parts some years back I got lucky and got an almost new barrel,cylinder,hammer and some small parts. Frank

If eBay stopped the selling of gun parts, then they have restarted it. Anything except the receiver is available. Not that I recommend buy anything on eBay.

[enfieldphile]

So, yer saying: my rare, .45 Colt caliber Anaconda and my aformentioned and pictured Trooper MkV isn't real Colt? :? it would take a ot of real $$ to buy em! 8-)

8-)http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/Anaconda%2045%20Colt/Anacondae_zpsa48f9eed.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/Anaconda%2045%20Colt/Anacondaf_zpsa359271e.jpg

What about this .22 Diamondback? Does it pass muster? ;)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/Diamondback%20Pics%20Jan%2012/Diamond22.jpg


I have never owned a Colt of any Mark with the new lockwork, because well they just are not Colts. They may have been made by Colt and roll stamped such, but they they are not Colts. At least from my point of view. :-) A fellow has to have some standards.

[enfieldphile]

Well, yeah, we generally call it "EvilBay", not for nothing, there are some things that you most likely would never find locally, or in a printed sell sheet. Ebay has saved my bacon on parts time & again. Has ebay been the cause of prices on some items to go sky high? Yep! However, on some things, ebay has caused competition on new or easily acquired items to bring proices down. On some high-ticket items, just beating the sales tax alone is worth the money. The satifaction of knowing you skated on the sales tax just warms your heart!


If eBay stopped the selling of gun parts, then they have restarted it. Anything except the receiver is available. Not that I recommend buy anything on eBay.

[Char-Gar]

So, yer saying: my rare, .45 Colt caliber Anaconda and my aformentioned and pictured Trooper MkV isn't real Colt? :? it would take a ot of real $$ to buy em! 8-)

8-)http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/Anaconda%2045%20Colt/Anacondae_zpsa48f9eed.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/Anaconda%2045%20Colt/Anacondaf_zpsa359271e.jpg

What about this .22 Diamondback? Does it pass muster? ;)

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/ultramag44/Diamondback%20Pics%20Jan%2012/Diamond22.jpg

I will allow the Diamondback through my filter as it has the old style lockwork. Sorry about that Anaconda, although I am sure it is a nice almost Colt.

[starmac]

I owned a trooper MK111 for about 15 minutes once, traded it for a 116 savage, did I mess up? lol

[fecmech]

I had a MarkIII when I first started shooting PPC and tried everything I could to get a good DA trigger but finally sold it and bought a K-38. It was a very accurate gun but the DA trigger was not so good.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have a Colt Trooper MK III and a S&W K-38 (just to name a few). If the MKIII wasn't my father's old gun...it would be sold yesterday, the K-38 is a far better gun IMHO.

That being said; Colts - both old and newer, have their place. The old models have great "V" spring actions and great hand fitting. The newer coil spring models are very well made as well. We'll never see the old style Colts made again, they are just too expensive to manufacture. The old and newer Colt revolvers fill an American niche that is now lost.

I prefer S&W and Ruger revolvers for their strength and durability but I'll give credit to the Colts for their history and pedigree.
Unions and poor management totally F***ed up that company. I wish they could have stayed on, competition is a good thing !

[Scharfschuetze]

Unions and poor management totally F***ed up that company. I wish they could have stayed on, competition is a good thing !



A fellow agent in the agency where I was issued a Colt Mk III at was from Hartford, CT. He once told me: "If you saw what got off of the bus in front of the Colt factory, you wouldn't want to carry that Colt." He was referring to the union workers there.

The Mk III that I was issued was a good reliable revolver and handled the issue 357 rounds well and was accurate enough with the Federal HBWC that we were issued on the pistol team. I once won the service class at a state championship PPC match with it. While I appreciated its strength and reliability, I moved on to a Model 19 S&W when one became available.