I don't think my local gun store gets it.

[milrifle]

I live outside a small town a good distance from a city of any size. We have a couple of local gun stores. One doesn't cater too much to the reloader. The other has some reloading stuff, but he is just not realistic on his prices. He seems to still be stuck in the Sandy Hook prices of two years ago on some of his stuff. It's not all of it, but some. His gun prices are not too far out of line and some reloading stuff is OK. His dies and things like that are priced OK. Some of his powder is ridiculous. He has some IMR 4198 on the shelf for $52! There are some other lesser used powders down there for $30 some odd, but $52 for IMR 4198! CCI LR primers are $69! This stuff is not hard to find anymore. Not really. Sometimes other stores in other towns are out of things, but it's not like it was a couple of years ago. I can get CCI primers for way less than $40 in most any other store I walk into and some are much closer to $30. Think I paid $32 for the last ones I bought about 40-50 miles away. I don't understand what his deal is. I wonder if he's had this stuff for two years and won't lower his price because he has too much in it or what? Some (Assumingly) once fired 7.62 x 39 brass is $44 for a small bag of what I assume to be 50 rnds. It doesn't give the qty. But I just got two 50 rnd bags at a gun show a month ago for $14/bag. I don't want to offend the owner or piss him off, but sometimes I just want to ask him what the "L" he's thinking? Maybe I should stock up at retail price at some of these other places and try to sell to him for a profit. I am truly baffled at why he is so high on some items. He's not gouging across the board, so I don't think it is that. Is his supplier still sticking it to him even after 2 years? I believe I'd find another supplier. I'd like to do business with him, and I'm not above paying a little extra for the convenience of having stuff right there in town, but not 2-3 times what others are charging. I just don't understand.

[Tatume]

I think you answered your own question. He paid too much and he's not willing to take a loss now that the price has come down on those items. Some people just don't realize that in business you need to make a net gain at the end of the day, even if you take a loss on some items along the way.

[dakotashooter2]

I suspect he may have bought at a high price. Regardless, at some point you have to bow to the market and possibly take the loss. You can sit on an overpriced item for several years and not make any sales on it or take the loss then order replacement stock which can be sold at market price and try to pick up enough sales to recover from that loss. Honestly in today's market any item that sits on your shelf for more than a year or 2 should be discounted and sold to keep the cash flowing. If you are sitting on a small ticket item for a couple years you have already lost any profit on it.

Heck for what he is asking for primers you could buy them online and even with the hazmat and shipping still get them cheaper. Maybe that's where he got them and why he is so high !!!

[milrifle]

I'm not a business man, but like you mentioned above, I can't help but think that he would long since have recouped his loss if he just lowered the price, sold the stuff, got some more in and began selling in quantity again.

I've thought about maybe saying something to the owner. I don't know him. I've made a comment or two to some of the sales staff, but I don't think they care. Like I say, I don't want to make him mad or offend him, but I really do think he is out of touch.

[Harter66]

Wow , I thought Fallon was rough.
I wouldn't risk the rebound for saying anything . Lots of the little town guys are like so spend the 50 bucks in gas to save 10 bucks on primers,because I'd go on the other 70 miles just to buy primers. I know too well the little town blues . I about fell over when I saw a cabinet full of pistol primers at 27/100 after not seeing a box at all for 3 yrs . Now it's the LRP that's hard to get . In the pits of things our little town guy has stayed in the market groove even if it cost him money to do it which I suspect that it did . He said 1 day when I was in all I can keep rotated is Walmart stock that's all anybody wants is the Walmart shopping list. So I bought 2 19.00 boxes of 222 for the brass and to see what it was doing with ammo less than 30 yr old . Age and health have him practically closed down now . So when I make the 140 mile 1 way Reno trips I check out the planes to find what I need.

I'm still not paying $40 for a 500 bulk pack of 22LR when the 222 will shoot for $6 / 100.

[IraqVet1982]

Have you tried negotiating with him? Maybe he'll move the stuff at a fairer price if asked.

[GLL]

I would not say anything !
There is little to be gained and possibly a lot to be lost !

Jerry

[trapper9260]

I say just get what you need from someone else when you make a trip in that area and let that person sit on what he have.In time you might see him drop the price on it if that is his problem not yours get them where you can for the price you want to pay and just stack up and then you will be ok after.Just make it worth the trip where you want to go for it .That is what I do.If the price is about right at the time I will get what I can to stock up and then will not worry about else where.Glad i did in the past because most of the things I would need are not there anymore on the shelf.I can just ride it out now for some time.

[Geezer in NH]

The internet is your friend at times buy there and let the dealer know. When he does not respond do not buy from him for supplies, guns maybe until he is out of business.

The shop I owned with partners became like that I sold out. They turned in their 07 FFL in November 2014 trying to get a dealers license. I do not see them re-opening anytime soon.

[flyingmonkey35]

Odds are he he's not shopping him self. So he has not done a inventory / price check in a awhile.

Next time you swing in talk about how much the price of gas dropped and that hey when I was at such and such place I picked up some powder.


Or leave a Add / print out on the counter

He shouldn't get offended. If he does oh well.

[bedbugbilly]

It may be two different things affecting it . . first, he bought high and wants to sell high in order to recover his investment and make a profit to pay his overhead and salary . . . . but . . . at some point, a businessman has to realize it isn't working. Sometimes a "half a loaf is better than no loaf at all". As the prices came down he's either going to have to adjust to meet it or the stuff will sit on his shelf . . interpreted in to no cash flow.

The second thing is that being smaller, he may not have the buying power to get decent prices from suppliers and vendors . . . happens all the time in any business. That's why you see so many walmarts, Lowes, Home Depot and Mennards and the smaller family owned lumberyards and hardware stores are drying up. A small store may only get 30 day billing where as a larger chain could be getting 90 or even 120 day billing . . . meaning they don't have to pay for the product as it sets on their shelves and moves out the door until the bill is due and payable 90 days later.

Our family was in business for many years and I was as well . . . and I really feel for the small guys. You'd like to see the be competitive and survive but the cards are stacked against them. Just take a look in any small town at all the empty store fronts.

I was buying primers here in MI last year for about $32/K. I looked out in AZ when I was there and even though the supply was fairly decent - most places wanted anywhere from $42/K to one place that had them at $60/K and these were fairly large "chain stores". The "smaller guy" has a lot of cards stacked against him/her . . . and unfortunately, there are still those who are trying to charge the shortage prices when many of those "costs" no longer exist . . . but if they can get away with it, their profit margin certainly improves.

I try to support the "small guy" whenever I can . . and sometimes, it may cost a couple of bucks more but I'd much rather do that than to have them "disappear" and have to travel a greater distance to get what I need. But, if the price is way out of line . . . as the customer, you have the option, buy it or walk out and get it somewhere cheaper. Nobody wants to "tick somebody off" but the only way a owner is going to know is if someone politely tells them. If they get mad . . well . . they get mad. But as a former business owner, it was part of my job in order to stay in business to do my "homework" and keep prices competitive. If being competitive doesn't keep the cash flow going and the overhead paid . . then it's time to either adjust your strategy or close the door and move on to something else.

[KCSO]

You guys have any idea what selling reloading (Dangerous) suppies adds to the insurance per year. Be lucky someone close even bothers. There is no way a small shop can even break even selling powder or primers.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

A small store may only get 30 day billing where as a larger chain could be getting 90 or even 120 day billing . . . meaning they don't have to pay for the product as it sets on their shelves and moves out the door until the bill is due and payable 90 days later.

Most big chains operate on PBS. Pay By Scan. The supplier doesn't get paid until their product is sold in the store. It is basically consignment. I feel for the small guys too.

[shoot-n-lead]

You guys have any idea what selling reloading (Dangerous) suppies adds to the insurance per year. Be lucky someone close even bothers. There is no way a small shop can even break even selling powder or primers.

Bull....Plenty of them sell primers and powder...they just have very little selection.

[fredj338]

Not a lot of stores around SoCal, the ones that do stock reloading stuff charge like it's cancer medication! So I still order online for most of my stuff.

[Digger]

With what everyone has been chatting about here , I guess we are very lucky to have a "reloading" specific store here in Gardnerville , just south of Carson city , Nevada .
Ian has been here just over a year now and is looking forward to a growing clientele in the area .....
He definitely does not over price and tries his best to have the items in stock at a reasonable rate.
Check out the thread from over in the "our town" forums ...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?260892-Update-Gardnerville-Lake-Tahoe-area-Nevada

[RogerDat]

Telling him the prices have changed is the decent thing to do. Along with telling him the same thing you told folks here. That you appreciate him having the supplies locally and doing business with his shop. And just ask him did he know the prices on those items have dropped significantly in the market since he priced them originally.

Maybe he does not know and will appreciate the information, maybe he will offer an explanation. Maybe you will have a discussion on the changing market and running a small business. Doubt he will be offended.

[TNsailorman]

Now let me see if I've got this right. He was trying to stock primers and having to pay ridiculous prices just to get them(supply was really short for a while and prices were way up) and you wouldn't buy because of the high prices. Now prices have come down and you want to again buy primers therefore you expect him to loose money to sell you primers at a much lower price than he paid for them. And all because you didn't want to pay a higher price when he had them. Hmm, Who is being unreasonable here? Try buying a 100,00 primers to get a price break so you can sell them at a decent cost in a small town where you are lucky to sell 10 to 20 thousand primers a year. See how long you stay in business with your money tied up in inventory constantly and paying tax on the same inventory at the end of the year. You will find out that your profit margin is razor thin or none existent. I've seen more people gouging on this board than I've seen out of my local gun shops. Gun shows are another matter. I've quite going to them because of the high prices vendors charge and the fact that most gun shows around my neighborhood charge more for entry fees than the local pro baseball team charges. I suspect that conditions vary greatly from area to area but my local gun shops sell pretty reasonable, most of the time there is very little difference between their prices and Midway and sometimes even cheaper when you add the shipping fees into the price. The day may come when the local gun shops are forced out of business by the WalMarts of the world, and when that happens, reloading will end as we now know it. The fact is that we reloaders are spoiled because of the availability of good reloading items and only occasionally do shortages occur. I can remember when I started reloading back in the 50's and reloading items were few and far between and they had to be ordered from places hundreds of miles away and the wait to get your items were counted in weeks--not days. You also had to pay retail, there being very few discount suppliers back then. I remember being tickled to death when Bruce Hodgden started selling WW II military powders at really decent prices. Sorry if I sound too strong on this issue, but I remember the old days and they were not the "good ol days" for reloaders . Those "good ol days" are now, enjoy them while you can. Between the Federal gov. and state gov. regulation, the days of the reloader may be coming to an end. It will start in the big cities but will eventually come to the "country boys" as well. my opinion anyway. james

[hickfu]

Not a lot of stores around SoCal, the ones that do stock reloading stuff charge like it's cancer medication! So I still order online for most of my stuff.

I go to Camarillo shooting supply, I just picked up some titegroup, long shot and clay dot for about 25.00 a pound... I wish he would get in some bluedot and reddot though..

[starmac]

I guess I don't see the problem. It sounds as most of his inventory is priced competitive, which is hard to do with a small shop, because they just don't sell in the quantities they really need to, due to folks buying off the net. I don't think it would be my place or really anyones place to tell him he is two high on a couple of items. He probably bought them at inflated prices just to provide a service to his customers when they were basically unobtainable. He gambled and got stuck. I would still buy what he has priced right and just pick up primers and the 4198 somewhere else, and be glad there is a shop there to deal with.

This is the second largest town in Alaska, and we have two places to buy any reloading supplies or equipment at all. They did not gouge us even though we can not order through the net, but we have to buy it in limited quantities WHEN they get it in, and I'm talking, the day they get it in.

[cbrick]

we can not order through the net,

I've not heard that, why wouldn't you order what you need over the net?

Rick

[milrifle]

TNsailorman,

Actually, I bought primers from him on more than one occasion at those high prices, back when those were the going rate. It's no longer the going rate.

[youngmman]

Not a lot of stores around SoCal, the ones that do stock reloading stuff charge like it's cancer medication! So I still order online for most of my stuff.

I'm in CA too and don't even go to the stores anymore. Everything I used for reloading/casting I buy online. I have had no problem finding what I want and don't need to hustle from store to store to find it.

[dakotashooter2]

There are a couple of small dealer around here that I'm sure don't buy enough powder and primers to get any volume discounts yet they are at or sometimes even slightly below market price, so it can be done. I realize that small shops have tight margins but if you don't hang close to market price all you have is dead inventory on your shelf. Yes you might get a desperate buyer who eventually pays that price but how many sales have you lost before that happens. Even if you normally only sell a couple cartons of that particular primer per year if they sit for 3-4 years you have lost the sale of 6-8 cartons over that time which should easily have paid for taking the loss, left at least a little profit and helped maintain your customer base.

I'm generally a pretty reserved person but there have been occassions when I have told a business I thought they were out of line. Several years back I bought almost 100 aluminum arrow shafts at a store near where I take an annual bowhunting trip. At the time I purchased them I knew that box of shafts had been in that store for at least 12 years (@1.99 each) and I told the owner that. I ended up getting them for .50 each.......

FWIW Cabelas has always had the highest cost around on primers and powder around here. They have consistently been $4-$5 more than the competitors, even the small shops, and even with their buying power. That's telling me that even a small shop should be able to at least match their price and make a few bucks unless they grossly overbought at high prices which few shops seemed to do..

[fredj338]

Now let me see if I've got this right. He was trying to stock primers and having to pay ridiculous prices just to get them(supply was really short for a while and prices were way up) and you wouldn't buy because of the high prices. Now prices have come down and you want to again buy primers therefore you expect him to loose money to sell you primers at a much lower price than he paid for them.

A retailer has to be smart. If he is over paying for inventory, then gets stuck with it, he has to reduce the price to sell it. Not unlike gas stations. Why would I buy from my LGS at 1.5x the price of ordering over the net? It's the 21st century. ALL business supplying a product have to compete with the rest of the country or world for that matter. Evolve or perish. It's been going on for decades.
I won't buy from the large local guy because he charges retail + on reloading stuff. You aren't getting my business unless you can at least be competitive.

[fredj338]

I'm in CA too and don't even go to the stores anymore. Everything I used for reloading/casting I buy online. I have had no problem finding what I want and don't need to hustle from store to store to find it.

When the last small shop left SOCal, I stopped even going by the larger shops. They really don't get it IMO. Selling reloading stuff at cost or +10% would get buyers in the store & many will buy something else. I won't even bother going by several of theses shops down here, unless I just want to browse the gun racks.

[trapper9260]

You guys have any idea what selling reloading (Dangerous) suppies adds to the insurance per year. Be lucky someone close even bothers. There is no way a small shop can even break even selling powder or primers.

The one I deal with dose not worry about that he makes over cost he is a gunsmith and also he have supplies some on hand and he also will order also what every his supplier have on hand .Or he will look for it if he can find it he will get it.He is also not far from me too.

[MT Gianni]

We sometimes differ on terminology, I consider it a small town when you know everyone in a half mile radius and all the rigs they own. If I were lucky enough to have a store that sold reloading supplies in a 30 mile radius I would tell him why I wanted him to be there and why you don't think he will at his current prices

[fast ronnie]

I just had a discussion with one of my machine shop suppliers. They had a tool I needed, but they were $150 on something I could get elsewhere for $58. I mentioned that I would buy theirs if they could get a little closer. The salesperson was very helpful and got down to a price I could live with. This company is a major supplier. One salesperson was not helpful, another was. Sometimes a POLITE discussion will help, sometimes not, but being a business owner, I appreciate my customers and will do what I can to help. It doesn't hurt to ask, but don't be stupid about it like I used to be!

[BLTsandwedge]

You guys have any idea what selling reloading (Dangerous) suppies adds to the insurance per year. Be lucky someone close even bothers. There is no way a small shop can even break even selling powder or primers.

True this. Insurance carriers are quite capable of being ignorant about relative risk, even though risk is their fundamental business. If, when selling powder/primers you shop your business owner's policy to 10 carriers you may run into 10 raters/underwriters who haven't a clue what smokeless powder is...and relegate you to excess lines (most likely very expensive). Having said that, one still must be competitive whatever one sells, be it primers or BOPs.

Tom

[Down South]

Let him sit on it.

[gcsteve]

About a year ago I was looking at primers running $39/K at one LGS about 25 miles from home (it was high, but at least they had them). At another LGS about 25 miles in the other direction the owner was trying to sell primers at $79/K. I politley told him he was at least double the retail price at other LGS's I did business with. He drolly said "Do you want them or not?". "No thanks", says I.

Haven't been back since.

I know the little LGS's have it harder than the big box stores, but the regular Joe has to be a bit careful how he spends his money. Any businessman in this age who depends on the loyalty of small town folks to pay double retail is out of touch with reality, and probably wont stay in business long.

[Yodogsandman]

Two years ago, one of the LGS's near the range had 2 thousand small rifle primers on the shelf for individual sale by the 100's for $4. I only needed a few hundred SR primers to fit Remington 7.62x39 brass that I picked up at the range years ago, just in case I decided to reload for SKS's. I only had 30 RP cases. When I asked for 200, he snatched up the boxes and said he was only selling them as full boxes of 1000. He set them behind the register and said he was saving them both (what he had) for another customer. I ended up driving an hour and a half to get some at a "not so local gun store". I've since bought all my powder and primers over there. Have not been back. Looks deserted every time I drive by to go to the range. Ha, isn't that just too bad!

[gunoil]

Sounds like a D""" with ears. He can suffer thru it. Tell him ta kiss ya @$$ till his hat flys off.




l bought 5000 primers (s pistol) @ Natchez for 164$ to my door. Powder is here now. This new green lettered (eco friendly whatever) alliant and hogdon bottled lbs are around here now. l bought one of each/$24 or lower.

[prs]

Hand loading here seems to be limited to a few rare nuts like me. There are no local stores with any supplies. There is a Cabelas about 125 mile round trip and some gun stores even a bit further out, compared to that Hazmat is a bargain.

prs

[W.R.Buchanan]

I don't get the mentality of "Don't Rock the Boat." if you can't talk to this guy about his prices and find out why he is doing what he is doing without Repercussions,,, Then why would you do business with him in the first place.

I am willing to pay a little more for in store availability and to support a local vendor. However I will not let them bend me over and I will let them know if I think they are trying to lift up my skirt.

I have no use for touchy **** Holes, they simply make everything too hard! There are too many good people to do business with.

With the internet big house dealers like Midway, Mid South, Graf's, etc. there are plenty of places to get what you need, and when they have Sales or Free Shipping deals you can save a lot of money. I recently bought 6000 .224 cal 55gr FMJ Hornady bullets from Mid South for $468.71 or .07 each! Free shipping too! Now that was a deal! Split them with my Bro in Law so we each got 3000 which should last us both for a while.

The one thing that sticks in my Craw is paying a Hazmat fee to get powder sent to me. I have decided that the only way to get around that is to go in with someone else and buy several 8lbs Kegs so the Hazmat gets amortized over a larger purchase. Many outfits will waive the Hazmat fee if you buy a big enough quantity.

I have one really good place to buy powder and components in SoCal and that is Phillip's Wholesale in Covina. He has mainly Shotgun and Cowboy related stock, along with a pretty cool junk section which I usually spend an hour digging thru. However he is a good 2 hour drive thru LA to get there and he is only open Thurs, Fri, and Sat. I always call ahead to make sure he has what I need before I invest 4 hours in LA traffic. His prices are always fair because he does a large enough business that he can survive selling at cost + whatever. His pricing is competitive with Midway and the big guys,,, but you get off the shelf service and no Shipping or Hazmat charges. You are still looking at $30-40 in gas plus your time so there is a trade off.

One defining factor for me is that Rick pretty is cool! And that makes a big difference to me as I can talk to him and get info I need to make better choices. I usually make the trip once or twice a year.

This is my .02 on this subject and I hope others may gain some insight from it. But my big point is don't be afraid to talk to someone because you think there maybe blow back. If the guy is that big an *****,,, You really don't need him.

Really this mentality comes from not wanting to hit a bully back because you might make him madder and he will hurt you more. It took me many years of getting my butt kicked when I was very young to get over this.

We all know this is the Basis of being a Wuss! and not being willing to fight means you are not free. We see this everyday, and it is how the weak get the strong to do their fighting for them.

True Freedom is the Willingness to Fight at the Drop of a Hat to protect what you have and who you are.

Anything else is slavery!

There are plenty of ways to get whatever you need for anything you do.

Don't be afraid to use them.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like your LGS has one idea of what constitutes a fair price and you have another. When you're that far apart you keep your money, he keeps his powder. Every now and then someone will come in the door and pay a silly price for something and that has undoubtedly happened at this LGS. More than once I've seen a gun or even a box of ammo on the shelf for what I felt was a ridiculous price but you know what? It wasn't there the next time I came thru.
I don't have a LGS anymore and I miss those days, try to support this guy when you can. If not you'll surely miss him when he's gone.

[cbrick]

I have one really good place to buy powder and components in SoCal and that is Phillip's Wholesale in Covina. Randy

Do you ever use the reloading store at Angeles Shooting ranges? Full range of reloading tools & supplies & far closer to you than Covina.

Rick

[zuke]

Let your purchasing power speak for you. Shop elswhere but let him know why

[Down South]

I buy few reloading supplies these days. I stocked up before our current leader got elected the first time. But, I still see primers at my LGS around $32 per K. Powder is reasonably priced as well.
I just started back loading shot shells about a year ago after about 25 yrs of my shotgun reloading equipment being in retirement. I can buy 25# bags of reclaimed shot for $28 a bag. It's clean and with a new grafite coating on it.
And no. He does not ship.

[starmac]

I've not heard that, why wouldn't you order what you need over the net?

Rick

Since they reclassified ammo several years ago, it can't be sent to Alaska by mail. No powder or primers by mail either. We can have it shipped up on a barge, but to do that you need to fill the pallet with 100 pounds, then once it hits land either drive 370 miles to get it or have it shiped up by truck. I don't think you can ship ammo, powder or primers on the same pallet either, so you are looking at 100 pounds of each.
It used to be guys could go together and make it somewhat worth while todo a group buy, since I have heard of Ohummer, it would be a rare thing for any supplier to sell you 100 pounds of primers, or powder then you would have to get it shipped to the barge line, and wait your turn, as they can only carry 4 pallets per trip, then have a truck line deliver it. So there is no worthwhile way for us to order off the net.

[sw282]

We used to have several local gun shops around where l am, but l have not seen a pound of powder in my area in the last couple years.. We got a new Gander Mountain back in Sept, sadly they don't sell reloading stuff. lmagine my reaction when l walked into a local shop near my daughter in PA.. He had bricks of Fed 22lr @ $45 .. Also had H110 for $25 a lb. There was some 800X for $23.. l chose the 3lbs of H110 and left the 800X for the next guy.. l am going to get her to keep eye on more for me.. l have NOT seen ANY 2400 or Unique any where in almost 3 years

[tomme boy]

You guys need to contact the local Walmart. Set up a time to meet with the manager. Have all your ducks in a row about the need of the reloading supplies. Have UPC labels or #'s ready so he can check on them. Walmart sells ALL of the powders and primers in some of their stores. You never know, it might work.

[cbrick]

You guys need to contact the local Walmart. Set up a time to meet with the manager. Have all your ducks in a row about the need of the reloading supplies. Have UPC labels or #'s ready so he can check on them. Walmart sells ALL of the powders and primers in some of their stores. You never know, it might work.

That may work in some places but certainly not all. There are entire states where Walmart sells no guns or reloading supplies. CA comes to mind, probably others as well.

Rick

[W.R.Buchanan]

rick I have to confess that I have never been to the Angeles Shooting Range. The closest I've got is Oak Tree. I know it is in the vicinity of Oak Tree but not sure exactly where.

I'll find it and get back to you on it.

I want everyone to write down a list of things that need fixed for our next Congress to address.

Not shipping ammo or components to Alaska was probably done as a thumb up the nose of Sarah Palin.

All the little things these jerks have done in secret need to be found and fixed and they need to be exposed for what they have done. It will take the next guy 2+ years to clean up most of it and some of it will never be found.

Randy