Which self defense bullets you have in your gun? (opinions needed)

[ruizhernandeztrust]

Hi guys,
As the title says what bullets you carry? A friend of mine gave me a box of Winchester 357 magnum 145 grains Silvertips saying those bullets are a P.O.S and he don't like them. I saw several videos in youtube and those bullets performed well in ballistic gel (good penetration, good weight retention, expanded well and very little fragmentation) This is the bullet I'm currently carrying in my sp-101 2.25". I think is a good stuff. So my question is... my friend is right or he's full of s**t? :bigsmyl2: What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.

[Bohica793]

Opinions are like butts. Everyone has one and only yours smells like roses. If it works for you and makes you happy, who cares what anyone else thinks?

[1Shirt]

Use what ever works for you and that is accurate in your weapon, and hope you never have to use them!
1Shirt!

[rintinglen]

I've mostly Hornady Critical defense rounds in my personal defense weapons, but that is more a matter of availability than anything else. There is little difference in any of the current generation of Commercial Hollowpoints. If it functions the fire arm and is accurate, it is likely good enough.

[FlatTop45LC]

I keep Critical Defense in my Shield 40 and the wife keeps Buffalo Bore Barnes in her Hi Power

[Mtnfolk75]

It is still hunting season here in CA & I live in the Sequoia National Forest, so all my handguns have Barnes XPB's as loaded by CorBon. When it is not hunting season, my K-Frames have the FBI Load as loaded by Remington ( Old Version ), my Airweight & Agent have BB 150 Grain Standard Pressure Wadcutters. The Auto's have Federal Standard Pressure 9PB 115 grain HP's, only because I have several hundred ..... [smilie=s:

Use what shoots reliably and accurately in your handgun.

[farmerjim]

3 each 124 grain 9mm Remington golden saber followed by 5 Lee 358-125RF.

[GoodOlBoy]

My experience with silver tips has always been positive (especially when you could get them in 30-30s way back when). My guess would be your friend either can't shoot, or his gun just don't like them. Either way I would say you have a win. Carry with confidence!

GoodOlBoy

[Vulcan Bob]

As long as its not a mouse caliber and its placed between the shirt pockets it will do the job.

[str8wal]

I use whatever hollow points I can get.

[runfiverun]

I hate hollow points.
however I do use them, the house gun is loaded with federal classic [gold dots] first then a 225 rnfp then the classic again, the second/third moon clips are all rnfp's cause if I need 6+ more I'm shooting through sumthin [and looking for a rifle]

[waksupi]

I use the BD .45 in my social firearms, and a similar design in my .44 mags, and .357 .mags.

[GabbyM]

In my K frame 38 Special. Lyman #3358429 cast SWC at 177 grain weight over H-Universal at 900 FPS.

[ruizhernandeztrust]

Thanks guys,
I'll keep the silvertips in my snubby. Previously I was using Golden Sabers 125 grains.

[sixshot]

3 128 gr cast HP's followed by some 140 FN solids, very accurate at social distance, they wouldn't let me take them into the Jazz game last week!

Dick

[nagantguy]

I carry the same bullet as my local PD only in my carry guns its a .45 not a .40, 230gr gold dot, it is really the most accurate bullet out of all 3 of my 1911s and in court in this state, MI it has made a difference in court on a few occasions in civil suits when the guy who shot a hood rat said he carried the same load as his local PD. That was before we got castle doctrine and like I said it shoots real good in my social guns.

[MtGun44]

.45 230 Gold Dots in Commander, Alternate Gold Dot and Win FMJ FN in .380, wide, deep, wide, deep.

In 9mm 124 Gold Dot.

Bill

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

135 grain nosler hollowpoints in 10mm

[shooting on a shoestring]

I perfer to use the most reliable, most accurate and best suited to the task ammunition I have available to me...my hand loads. I think of it like choosing between the combo meal deal or a home cooked well balanced roast beef feast.

My 38s have Lyman 358091s cast soft loaded to 900 fps from 4 inch barrels. J frames get real close to that velocity as well.

45 Colts have NOE 454250 full meplat wad cutters cast soft running just over 1000 fps from short barrels.

357s usually get NOE 360160 HPs cast soft running 1300 to 1500 depending on snubby or 4 inch.

Thankfully I live in Texas. Our Texas law gives law abiding citizens the right to repel attackers with up to and including deadly force. It does not limit how that force is generated. It can be generated with a bat or a boolit or a pick up truck. And furthermore, our Texas law says if a citizen was justified in using force or deadly force, neither the bad guy nor his family can sue in civil court for civil damages resulting from the self defense incident.

i love Texas.

[nixpap]

As long as its not a mouse caliber and its placed between the shirt pockets it will do the job.


What he said. When i carry the Ruger SP 101 357 i use the Federal 125 gr jhp. Id be just fine with my home cast 158 gr RNFP or LSWC. Or a full wadcutter. In my 9 mm, any 124-125 bonded bullet is what I like.

I'm a firm believer that shot placement is king,penetration is queen.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lot of variables to consider. Without getting into personal choices there some good basic criteria to consider:

1. Above all else it must reliably function in your gun 100% of the time.

2. In terms of terminal ballistics, it needs to reliably achieve what you desire in terms of penetration, expansion, weight retention, ability to defeat barriers, etc. Each person must tailor those traits to the task at hand. The bare minimum should be that it can reliably penetrate deep enough to reach something important.

3. it needs to be reasonably accurate in a given firearm.

4. availability

[DougGuy]

Hornady Critical Defense 230gr hp +P in my .45 ACP, and old Federal Hydrashok +P in my .38 S&W snubbie.

[TheDoctor]

155 grain Gold Dot in my 40, 250 grain Gold Dot in 45 Colt, 135 grain PDX 38 spc+p, 210 grain Gold Dot in 44 mag, 147 grain Rangers in 9mm, 158 grain XTP in 357 mag, 55 grain sp in .223, 00 buck in 12 gauge! Always be prepared...

[Omega]

I have a multitude of rounds I carry, currently gold dots. But seeing what a standard 9mm ball can do up close and personal I have stopped buying any new "best" rounds. Heck, I even come home with what ever cast or j bullet I happen to have left over after a shooting session with no worries, as long as they grouped well.

[wallenba]

115 grain Hornady XTP's in my 9mm SR-9.

[sundog]

I use the BD .45 in my social firearms, and a similar design in my .44 mags, and .357 .mags.

Yep, that sorta stuff does the job just fine.

[9.3X62AL]

There are no "bad" defensive loads for 357 Magnum revolvers, when 357 Magnum ammunition is being discussed. I would have been quite happy carrying the W-W Silvertip 145 grainers in my carry 357 (686 x 4"); they gave about 1320-1340 FPS when I clocked them through it. For years, my shop's authorized load was the W-W 158 JHP, which yields about 1250-1275 FPS from that gun. Current authorized load is the Federal #357B, AKA FBI Load, a 125 grain JHP that runs 1425-1440 FPS in the 686 x 4".

All three loads are accurate as can be to 50 yards. At 50 yards the 158s and 145 STs overlay one another with the same sight setting; the 125 grainers hit about 1.5"-2.0" lower with same sight setting. The only "advantage" I can discern between the 3 loadings is slightly reduced recoil from the 125 grain loads.

I am required by policy to carry my old shop's authorized sideirons--calibers--and issued ammo. In 357 Magnum, I have no complaints--likewise in 40 S&W (W-W SXT 180 JHP) and 45 ACP (W-W SXT 230 JHP). Their 9mm load (W-W 147 JHP) and 38 Special (Rem +P 125 JHP) load don't impress me, so I don't carry those calibers.

[charlie b]

I am a fan of Silvertips from a long time back. I have 140gn versions in my SP101 and the Python. THe .45 gets Gold Dots cause that is what the local PD uses.

[Shooter973]

That is the exact bullet that I use in my carry guns. If I reload jacketed bullets I favor 140 gr. hollows or flat points. I don't shoot many jacketed bullets, so when I do I push them pretty hard.I can tell just by looking, that they are near red line if they are jacketed. At least 95 percent of my 357 shooting is done with a 150-158 gr. cast bullet and Unique. Cheap to shoot but stout enough to fell like a good magnum load. :Luvcastboolits:

[jwp475]

Hi guys,
As the title says what bullets you carry? A friend of mine gave me a box of Winchester 357 magnum 145 grains Silvertips saying those bullets are a P.O.S and he don't like them. I saw several videos in youtube and those bullets performed well in ballistic gel (good penetration, good weight retention, expanded well and very little fragmentation) This is the bullet I'm currently carrying in my sp-101 2.25". I think is a good stuff. So my question is... my friend is right or he's full of s**t? :bigsmyl2: What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.


They did not expand or penetrate well for me a few years ago. There are better bullets available in my experience.

[Boolit_Head]

Silvertips were a gold standard for Law Enforcement for many years.

[9.3X62AL]

Silvertips were a gold standard for Law Enforcement for many years.

Silvertip bullets took some undeserved heat for the outcome of the FBI Miami 1986 bank robbery shootout, and this had the effect of diminishing their reputation in the collective mindset of defensive shooting students. Bullet- and ammo-makers put forth no end of ad copy concerning the attributes and capabilities of their latest and greatest Magic Bullet (c) that graces their over-priced Premium Grade Tacticool FBI-Rated And Approved pistolfodder.

Bull warp.

I spent a long career investigating and assessing shooting scrapes from a number of perspectives. I could go on at length about all those "angels dancing on the heads of pins" types of arguments put forth by the Facklerites and the rest of those lab-coated jello blasters. It doesn't matter what their "scientific" analyses have to say about predicted bullet performance. What matters is this--the ONLY thing that matters to a self-defender is what effects the bullets that he/she projects during that exchange of finality have on the goblin that is trying to take his/her life. The BEST guarantee of bullet performance is not its construction or its velocity or its caliber--the ne plus ultra of its effectiveness is its PLACEMENT. With the handgun, the Brain Housing Group gives the best chance of immediate stoppage, and further enhancement is achieved by taking out eyes found in the bullet funnels that contain same. Yes, it is a savage statement. Exchanging finality is a savage business.

Handguns are a compromise between portability and stopping power that greatly favors the former factor. Even the more powerful calibers SUCK at putting down goblins with immediacy. If at all possible, strive to have a shotgun or rifle with you at the time someone chooses to inflict fatality upon you or yours. If sideiron gets the luck of the draw, I want as much of all three ballistic elements I can get--velocity, caliber, and bullet weight. This explains my choice of 357 Magnum and 45 ACP as my current carry options. These may not be my preferred calibers, but of those options I am restricted to they seem the best I can bring to bear within my current limits. Best of breed? Glock 20 in 10mm with Silvertips on board.....175 grains at 1275-1300 FPS. AWESOME FELON REPELLANT.

[Charlie U.]

Hornady Critical Defense 230gr hp +P in my .45 ACP, and old Federal Hydrashok +P in my .38 S&W snubbie.

Like DougGuy, I'm using Hornady Crit. Def. except that I use the .40s&w loading.

When I carry the Ruger sp101 .357mag I go with Remington Gold Sabre 125grainers
or use my own cast fullbore wadcutters.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e3/gekkocha/Hunting%20Guns%20Relaoding/Oct2014004.jpg

[ruizhernandeztrust]

I always liked the idea of full power wadcutters. The full bore meplat combined with decent amount of velocity should do the trick for self defense.

[ruizhernandeztrust]

Like DougGuy, I'm using Hornady Crit. Def. except that I use the .40s&w loading.

When I carry the Ruger sp101 .357mag I go with Remington Gold Sabre 125grainers
or use my own cast fullbore wadcutters.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e3/gekkocha/Hunting%20Guns%20Relaoding/Oct2014004.jpg


What mold you used to cast those beauties? :mrgreen:

[ruizhernandeztrust]

If someone is interested here's the video of the silvertips 145 grains.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLMwQvc0QA

[FergusonTO35]

All my centerfires use nothing but reloads. Here are my defensive handguns and their ammo:

Kel-Tec P-32 .32 Auto- Accurate 313-76-RF at 900 fps
S&W 10-5 .38 Special- Lee 358-158-RF at 875 fps
Glock 19 with Storm Lake barrel 9mm- Lee 356-120-TC at 1000 fps
Glock 26 with factory barrel 9mm- 115 grain FMJ at 1020 fps

[Charlie U.]

What mold you used to cast those beauties? :mrgreen:

That is the Lyman 360344.
I cast 'em hard and run 'em hot out of the .357 mag.
Not the most accurate load for long range shooting, but adequate at SD range. They do deliver a BIG whack.

[jwp475]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/HorsesBullets002.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/jwp475/media/HorsesBullets002.jpg.html)

[Zouave 58]

I have a good friend who until his recent retirement was New Hampshire State Police and head of the SWAT team who was privy to most of the LE testing that has been done over the years. He maintains that from a police perspective the best performing factory loads in 9mm and 45acp are the Winchester Ranger XST law enforcement only rounds followed by the Speer LE gold dot loads that are available for civilian use. He maintains that the Speer gold dots being bonded offer excellent terminal performance in terms of expansion and penetration and are the best available to us civilian shooters. That said, my choice of load in my carry gun, a S&W 1970's vintage 2 1/2" 66 .357 is a Hornady 148 grain hollow based wadcutter loaded backwards over 6.0grs of Unique. My house gun is a Browning Hi-Power 9mm loaded with Speer le gold dot 124's.

[9.3X62AL]

Those same W-W SXT "LEO Only" rounds manage to get into citizen supply chains without much trouble. I have seen them at several gun shows going for fair pricing.

But fret not......these same loads now appear in the "WWB hollow-point" generic packaging. Same stuff. Identical. Same bullet as that in the SXT. Same velocity. Same expansion in Facklerjello (my agency verified this). This started when Winchester intro'ed their uber-tactical $1.15-per-shot stuff, and tried selling it on the State contract at that tariff. Agencies started doing some of their own critical testing, and learned what was up.

[Dan Cash]

I am surprised by the replies to this thread. Most of you fellows tout a cast bullet in some form or another for hunting, yet abandon that concept when it comes to protecting yourself. I have not shot a jacketed bullet in anything but my .380 in many years. The .38/.357s get 175 grain Kieth type bullets, .44 Special gets a 450 grainer of the same configuration and the .45 autos use a 230 grain truncated cone slug. Revolvers get a round flat point. They are all cast. They flat work on deer sized animals and I have full confidence that they will suffice for 2 legged vermin.

[Jeffrey]

OH NOooo Dan. You opened the can of worms that is the "handloads vs factory for self defence" debate. :bigsmyl2: My 45 ACP carry ammo are Glaser Safety Slugs. Long story short: an ambulance attendant acquaintance reported only 2 perps making it to the hospital alive after getting hit in the torso with a Glaser. One died on the operating table (hit upper left chest). The other had no gluteus maximus on left side (hit left lower abdomen).

[flyingmonkey35]

Dan,

There area lot of threads on this topic.

But most of us carry manufacturer load for a court defense.

Its easier just to never have it brought up in court that you made your own "Killer" bullets.

If there is any doubt if the shooting wasn't justified. Any proscutie atty worth a grain of salt could against you.

To me its worth the cash just to avoid that.

Think how bad it would have been if George Zimmerman had his own cast. Bullets in his gun.

That may have been enough to tip the jury to thinking he was a looking for the fight.

[Dan Cash]

I am almost always armed but seldom am I armed with the thought of shooting a human. Do you suppose I should take the home rolled cartridges out of my side arm when I go to town and replace them with tailor mades? If I then had to shoot a human or sub human, by the same token, the prosecutor could say I was upgrading my ammo with intent to kill. I will take my chances with what I have and won't criticize others for doing the same.

[Omega]

The argument againt using any reload for SD has been discussed ad nauseum on boards and even by some writers in main stream shooting mags. But the fact is, not one single case has been brought up of what type rounds were used except for the ballistics of them. Unless you are using mercury, or something way out of the ordinary I would not worry about that part, just performance and accuracy.

[fouronesix]

I've shot thousands of factory rounds through my self defense handgun without a hiccup of any kind. It's a Glock 17 in 9mm loaded with Speer factory ammo, Gold Dot 124. I really don't care about anyone else's ideas or their choice of handgun or bullet for self defense.

Matter of fact I went to the local range yesterday and popped off 50 rounds and not a hiccup of function nor problem putting two and three taps into a 5" bull at 10 yds.

[pistolman44]

I use FMJ in all my 45 auto's. Usually CCI's. I use my handloads at the range and hunting.

[9.3X62AL]

As I explained a few posts back in this thread, I am required by regulations to use certain ammunition types in my sideiron. I do tailor handloads that match performance of those factory loads for practice.

During the many shooting investigations I was a part of, the subject of "handload vs. factory load" was never a subject of discussion at any step of the case. This was in California, the Land of Vicarious Liability. Everyone that shoots someone--regardless how justified that shooting may have been--gets sued. Usually, these civil matters go away with between $5K-$15K getting thrown the way of the litigant by a homeowner's insurance carrier. The lowlife or his heirs and assigns declare "Justice served" and march off with vindication--new 22" wheels on their roach coach--and a big-screen TV for their Section 8 apartment. Lovely.

[tygar]

I still have BLack Talons for 45, 9mm, 38 & use them but when I have rotated & shot all I have I'll carry whatever premium PD bullet that works best in a specific gun.

[krag35]

BD-45's in 45 ACP
Lyman 429667 in 44mag
Lee 357-125-RF in 9mm and 38 special
Group buy 358-180-RF in 357mag

[robertbank]

From a different angle I carry:

1. A SAA Uberti 45Colt/Ruger Blackhawk flattop loaded with 8.5 gr of Unique under a 260 gr LSWC
or
2. Norinco 1911 loaded with 13.5 gr of Longshot under a 200 gr LSWC in a 45-08 case
or
3. Ruger GP-100 loaded with 5 gr of Unique under a 200 gr Lyman RN hardcast.

All for four legged protection in the bush as backup to my 12 gauge shotgun loaded with Winchester PDX1 Defender ammunition.

Happy New Year

Bob
ps a M&P 40Cal sits in my bed stand with 10 rds S&B FMJ - Not likely to do much but gather dust but my neighbour lost his wife to a home invasion in a town just south of Terrace a couple of years back. The RCMP can charge me with unsafe storage, if they want to....but that would be about it. The Castle Principle is alive and well up here.

[warboar_21]

When I was carrying my Kimber Ultra CDP I found that the 185gr Remington Golden Sabers were the most reliable out of that particular gun. Years later Bill Wilson wrote an article on Sub Compact 1911s and Reliability issues with heavier than 200gr loadings.

When I bought my 9mm it was after the Newtown shooting so finding a steady supply of SD ammo wasn't easy. I found a supply of the 124gr+p Remington Golden Sabers and they worked well. They are accurate and reliable out of my Sig P290. Once ammo became more available I tested the Federal HST and found them to be just as reliable and as accurate as the Golden Sabers. I still have a hard time finding the Gold Dots around here to try out.

My recent purchase of the S&W 442 Talo had me out testing again. The only +p I could find at the time were the new Winchester PDX. They were not accurate at all out of my gun so I bought some of the Remington Short barreled golden saber loads. They seem to be a little more accurate out of my gun. I have been looking for the Remington 158gr +p FBI load but most stores don't carry it around here. My 158gr SWC handloads shoot great so I am hoping to find the Remington offerings.

In my GP-100 I use the tried and true Remington 125gr SJHP. Inexpensive and accurate.

In my 10MM for SD I have the 175gr Winchester Silvertips. They work well and really are the only full power SD load out there besides from Buffalo Bore or Double Tap. I have used the 180gr gold dots from Buffalo Bore while working up in WA. They function well and are pretty accurate as well. Only downside was price.

[oldlincoln]

Kansas requires factory loads for CCH. I usually carry a S&W 3 inch model 13 .357 Mag with Federal 357B. That's the 125 gr. JHP "self defense" once upon a time "Hydrashock". When I carry my 1911 I load it with Federal 45C, the 185gr. JHP, flying ashtray.

[opos]

As of now I can't get a carry permit (hoping it's in the works soon). Our house guns are GP100's with 4" barrels...we use only Remington Golden Saber 38 special +P 125 grain ammo...When we want to stay "current" I load a 38 special +P with a Remington SJHP bullet and 231. Performance is about the same and perceived recoil and aim point are about the same. Just works for me and the practice ammo is near the same in ballistics, muzzle jump, flash and recoil.

[jwp475]

The argument againt using any reload for SD has been discussed ad nauseum on boards and even by some writers in main stream shooting mags. But the fact is, not one single case has been brought up of what type rounds were used except for the ballistics of them. Unless you are using mercury, or something way out of the ordinary I would not worry about that part, just performance and accuracy.

Exactly.

[Good Cheer]

Hi guys,
As the title says what bullets you carry? A friend of mine gave me a box of Winchester 357 magnum 145 grains Silvertips saying those bullets are a P.O.S and he don't like them. I saw several videos in youtube and those bullets performed well in ballistic gel (good penetration, good weight retention, expanded well and very little fragmentation) This is the bullet I'm currently carrying in my sp-101 2.25". I think is a good stuff. So my question is... my friend is right or he's full of s**t? :bigsmyl2: What's your opinion? Thanks in advance.


Expansion tests with your piece are what count. It's gonna be close range so all the other considerations sort of go bye bye.

PS,
My personal preference for such in a real short 357 is soft #358395's seated backwards and seated out as far as useful. Not worried about speed loading, leading or muzzle flash. It expands great and goes spat.
In a not real short 357 it's NEI's 148 grain gas check wadcutter cast soft and again seated out as far as useful.

[knobster]

160gr lead cast hollow points in the Glock 22
125gr lead cast hollow points in the Glock 17
250gr lead cast hollow points in the S&W 44mag
Cast #4 buck (27 of 'em) in the Mossy 500

Anything still coming at me after all that can have my guns.

[clum553946]

Hornady critical defense in .40 & .45, Winchester Silvertip .32 auto

[jwp475]

War_Boar21, Underwood Ammo loads excellent 10mm ammo both JHP and hard cast at a fair price. Excellent ammo in my experience.

[glockky]

BD-45's in 45 ACP
Lyman 429667 in 44mag
Lee 357-125-RF in 9mm and 38 special
Group buy 358-180-RF in 357mag

what are BD 45's ?

[35remington]

Widest possible meplat cast bullet design for the 1911 (and other autoloaders, but specc'd with the 1911 in mind). Designed by a member here that goes by BD.

[glockky]

Does accurate molds have the drawing on their website?

[35remington]

Do a search here. The picture will come up on one of the many group buys done on this site for the design.

[RobS]

what are BD 45's ?


Does accurate molds have the drawing on their website?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-235B-D.png

[RobS]

45 Auto:
Lyman Devastator at a bit over 200 grains and then a LFN style self designed 235 grainer http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-235R-D.png
(http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-235R-D.png)
45 Colt:
Same 235 grainer as above and then a Large HP'd 230 grainer http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=953&osCsid=vm4ocm4guittueushtnu3bfg44

[MtGun44]

Some body posted that "Kansas requires factory loads".

AFAIK, this is baloney.

I helped write the bill and was on one of the subcommittees that wrote the training
regulations for Kansas. Me and one other guy wrote (subcommittee approved) all the
original questions and answers for the training written test and have never heard a single
word ever about ammunition requirements in any context in the bill, training syllabus
or the training that I took to get my license. Unless something has been added in
the last year or so that I have not heard of I call this totally bad information.

If you think this is valid info, please give me some source that can be verified. I can
be certain it was not in the original bill or original training and certification regulations.
I got my CCW in early January the first year possible and have renewed it just
in the last 30 days.

Bill

[Manster]

The Bersa 380 is loaded with Critical Defense, the Ruger 9mm with Federal HST. Most modern loads will perform well in the majority of self defense situations IMHO...

[GabbyM]

Some body posted that "Kansas requires factory loads".

AFAIK, this is baloney.

I helped write the bill and was on one of the subcommittees that wrote the training
regulations for Kansas. Me and one other guy wrote (subcommittee approved) all the
original questions and answers for the training written test and have never heard a single
word ever about ammunition requirements in any context in the bill, training syllabus
or the training that I took to get my license. Unless something has been added in
the last year or so that I have not heard of I call this totally bad information.

If you think this is valid info, please give me some source that can be verified. I can
be certain it was not in the original bill or original training and certification regulations.
I got my CCW in early January the first year possible and have renewed it just
in the last 30 days.

Bill

Bill you realize those annoying facts will never be repeated down at bubbas local ammo shop. Just bad for business.
No matter as any smart person knows cast bullets will just bounce off anyway.

[9.3X62AL]

Bill--

Never say "Never", and never say "Always" when it comes to a bureaucracy or its mania to regulate whatever portions of an otherwise well-written statute the bureaucrat wants to modify. MUCH was changed for my agency's retirees when HR 218 became law, and that is a Federal law that is quite generic and largely free of specificity. All it took was the threat of Federal oversight to cause my agency to GREATLY restrict retirees' choices from the former wide selection of calibers and platforms to the somewhat restricted list of those guns/calibers/ammo types the active duty deputies are required to use. No requirement express or implied in HR 218, but no matter--someone is looking, so reflexively be restrictive. Mania.

[MtGun44]

I understand that regs are written after the bill and rule. That is why I was careful to
get the AG to put me and some key friends on the key subcommittees. We managed
to stop some real stupid stuff that a few guys & gals wanted to put in the regs. We
wound up with very good, clean regs. Now I have been away from it for a few years
so it is possible something has changed, but the new folks in the AGs office are good
pro-gun guys, so I doubt it.

I wonder how these stories get started?

Bill

[bobthenailer]

BARNES-TAC for 380 , 9mm and 45 acp