if you use buldge busting kit/your method.

[gunoil]

Whats your method of bb'ing pistol brass? Take's a huge force on some of them. Most members do not even mess with bb kit but l like too. Needs a dang hydrolic lever. 9's can be hard to do and no fun.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Are you lubing the brass at all?

[knobster]

I bulge bust all the 40s I find. Of the 1000 or so I've sent through the buster I've only had one occasion to break out the tools to remove crumpled brass. I do not use any lube.

[N4AUD]

I've been handloading for over 30 years and have read several reloading manuals cover to cover and I have no idea what this conversation is about, so no, I guess I don't "BB" my brass.

[wallenba]

I've been handloading for over 30 years and have read several reloading manuals cover to cover and I have no idea what this conversation is about, so no, I guess I don't "BB" my brass.

Bulge busting die kit is used to iron out bulges in the lower portion of rimless cases that headspace on the mouth. Typically a Lee kit utilizes your factory crimp die with the stop and crimper removed, and pushes the case straight through the top. see it here > http://www.midwayusa.com/product/882261/lee-bulge-buster-base-sizing-kit-380-auto-40-s-and-w-45-acp

[gunoil]

I stick the nine brass in die, they go all the way in 80%, then push-thru comes up then shove another up in die. Has nothin to do with mouth of brass, just lower rim and some glock buldges you've heard of, but the hard push-thru comes from thick rim at base/primer area.

Range brass from different pistols. I have a nine kit from Lee, waited couple weeks extra, it say makarov. But even some 45acp's are a SOB.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This conversation is about removing the bulge that results from firing a .40 S&W round in Auto Pistol.

A Bulge is generated at the junction of the feed ramp and the chamber wall as this area is not supported by the full chamber wall like a revolver chamber does. This is called an "Unsupported Chamber" and is usually blamed on Glocks, however all auto pistols of this caliber have the same issue to some degree as it is just part of the way they have to be designed to feed reliably.

This bulge, unless pushed back creates a weak area in the case which can, after repeated reloading's,,, fail.

You use a Lee Deluxe Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the crimping sleeve removed and the top left open. This essentially makes a push thru sizing die for the brass cases, and works very well in prolonging your pistol brass' life. The Lee Bulge Buster Kit is used in conjunction with the FCD and contains all of the other pieces you need to do this operation including the pusher and a plastic bottle that sits on top of the die to catch the brass as you push it thru the die.

A Full Length sizing die does not get all the way to the bottom of each case and in fact only exacerbates the problem..

THIS IS A CASE PREPARATION OPERATION ONLY !!!!!!!!!!

IT IS NOT A LOADING OPERATION !!!!!!!!!!!!

I use Dillon Case Lube on my cases as it makes shoving them thru this die much easier. I then tumble them to clean them and remove the lube. The result is virtually new looking brass to load.

I also set the die up so that the base of the case, which is the hardest part to stuff thru the die, comes into the die opening just as the press cams over. This is where the presses highest leverage is and it is a good thing as usually you are doing hundreds of these at one time, and it gets old pretty fast if it takes too much effort.

Some people do this to 9mm cases as well, I personally see no reason as there is so much 9mm brass laying around it seems counter productive to do any more than necessary to shoot it once and forget about it.

I also see no reason to do this operation to .45 ACP brass as this is a low pressure round and doesn't typically deform the cases. 9mm and .40S&W operate at twice the pressure a .45 does, and there in lies the problem.

YOU THEN MUST FL SIZE YOUR CASES AND LOAD THEM NORMALLY.

Hope this answers your questions fully. Everything you need to know about this subject is written above.

Randy

[gunoil]

I bulge bust all the 40s I find. Of the 1000 or so I've sent through the buster I've only had one occasion to break out the tools to remove crumpled brass. I do not use any lube.

l made a custom exit tube, some time brass has got bunched up in there. Takes to much leverage on 10 out of 50.

[gunoil]

This conversation is about removing the bulge that results from firing a .40 S&W round in Auto Pistol.

A Bulge is generated at the junction of the feed ramp and the chamber wall as this area is not supported by the full chamber wall like a revolver chamber does. This is called an "Unsupported Chamber" and is usually blamed on Glocks, however all auto pistols of this caliber have the same issue to some degree as it is just part of the way they have to be designed to feed reliably.

This bulge, unless pushed back creates a weak area in the case which can, after repeated reloading's,,, fail.

You use a Lee Deluxe Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the crimping sleeve removed and the top left open. This essentially makes a push thru sizing die for the brass cases, and works very well in prolonging your pistol brass' life. The Lee Bulge Buster Kit is used in conjunction with the FCD and contains all of the other pieces you need to do this operation including the pusher and a plastic bottle that sits on top of the die to catch the brass as you push it thru the die.

A Full Length sizing die does not get all the way to the bottom of each case and in fact only exacerbates the problem..

THIS IS A CASE PREPARATION OPERATION ONLY !!!!!!!!!!

IT IS NOT A LOADING OPERATION !!!!!!!!!!!!

I use Dillon Case Lube on my cases as it makes shoving them thru this die much easier. I then tumble them to clean them and remove the lube. The result is virtually new looking brass to load.

I also set the die up so that the base of the case, which is the hardest part to stuff thru the die, comes into the die opening just as the press cams over. This is where the presses highest leverage is and it is a good thing as usually you are doing hundreds of these at one time, and it gets old pretty fast if it takes too much effort.

Some people do this to 9mm cases as well, I personally see no reason as there is so much 9mm brass laying around it seems counter productive to do any more than necessary to shoot it once and forget about it.

I also see no reason to do this operation to .45 ACP brass as this is a low pressure round and doesn't typically deform the cases. 9mm and .40S&W operate at twice the pressure a .45 does, and there in lies the problem.

YOU THEN MUST FL SIZE YOUR CASES AND LOAD THEM NORMALLY.

Hope this answers your questions fully. Everything you need to know about this subject is written above.

Randy

This thread is not about glock buldges. This is about the force it takes which does not come from buldge on brass but thick rim at bottom of brass/primer area.

lf you dont own and use a bb kit just leave the paste's off the thread.

Some good tips, wrb, but it still takes much force on to many. Lube or not.

[huntnman]

I had a bunch of 45acp loaded that were failing to feed at aprox. 10% rate. Pushed through bb cured my problems.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Whatever? You obviously know what you're looking for.:veryconfu

You might try shoving each case all the way thru the die. That is the way it is intended to be used,,, and you can't really expect another case to act as a pusher.

Incidentally I am the guy who told Lee that they needed to put together a kit to do this. We were already using the FCD to remove bulges. I sold pushers here that I made for several years before Lee came out with the kit,,, which I also have.

Randy

[gunoil]

Well l need a taller pusher, that want hurt anything. And all should check the cam over idea u gave us.

l just like prepin brass.

[Artful]

Randy, you should know better than to confuse them with facts...

[too many things]

9mm brass is tapered NOT straight like 40 and 45 ALSO the military has a larger rim on head and will not work
if you want to get the bulge out on a 9mm buy a lee carbide and grind the face of the die to the carbide. it will size the brass to the rim

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gun Oil: The two best things you can do is lube the cases and set the die up so the press is camming over as the rim passes thru the die.

I have done thousands of these cases and there are going to be some that are harder than others. Doing what I've said minimizes the effort as much as you're going to get using this method.

Using a different type of press, like and arbor press can help but that's a complete nother way of doing it.

Magma Engineering makes a press to do just this with a auto feeder and everything.

An air cylinder on the ram of the press would be another way, but that is kind of dangerous.

Randy

[gunoil]

Yea, no air/ or hydro! I'll do what you said. l didnt know about magma either. Thanks.

[N4AUD]

Bulge busting die kit is used to iron out bulges in the lower portion of rimless cases that headspace on the mouth. Typically a Lee kit utilizes your factory crimp die with the stop and crimper removed, and pushes the case straight through the top. see it here > http://www.midwayusa.com/product/882261/lee-bulge-buster-base-sizing-kit-380-auto-40-s-and-w-45-acp
OK, thanks for the explanation!

[Virginia John]

I do both .40 and .45 and the suggestions are good ones and I intend to try the camming trick to reduce the pressure required to get some of them through. A longer handle may not hurt either.

[oldfart1956]

I'm a bulge buster. Picked up 3000 pcs. of range brass for the .40 S&W and of course some of it was slightly bulged. If it's real bad I toss it. The Fiocchi was the worst, or more likely it all came from the same gun. I bolted the Lyman Spartan single stage to a 2X4 and clamped that in the Black&Decker Workmate upside down. Then I screwed the die in (stripped down Lee factory crimp die for .40 s&w) and used the push pin for the .358 sizer to ram the cases thru. Using the smaller push pin allows the brass to be inserted base first in the die, the smaller pin fits inside the .40 s&w case and made it easier to ram it thru. Trying to run the cases thru mouth first (as would be normal) seemed much harder. I quickly learned to lube the brass. Some brass simply wouldn't go. All the brass was then resized in the normal fashion when reloading. Audie....the longwinded Oldfart..

[Herb in Pa]

I shot thousands of rounds out of an MP40 subgun which fires from an open bolt and does bulge cases near the rim. I found a company EGW which makes undersized carbide sizing dies for 9mm, 40 cal and 45ACP. It decaps and sizes just like a regular sizing die and doesn't require any more force than the regular sizing operation. Here's their description...................A must for the serious reloader: EGW offers custom designed, carbide sizing dies that are 0.001" smaller in diameter than typical dies. Not only is it smaller in diameter, the bottom corner is radiused which sizes the case further down. This helps prevent feed failures from cases that bulged near the base during reloading- which is typical of brass fired in Glocks and other loose chambered guns. The dies are made out of carbide.
Undersized Reloading Dies will work with a Dillon Press if they are 550, 650, or 1050. They will not work if they are squared.

Why does my die have Lee packaging?

Lee Precision, Inc manufacturers the dies to our specifications, meaning these dies are made solely for us. The Lee dies you can buy from other suppliers are not the EGW undersized dies.

[troyboy]

I do the same as Randy. Lube and adjust the die as described.

[jmorris]

I automated a case pro roll sizing machine.
takes almost all the work out of the job, works great on tapered cases (unlike a push through die) and even irons out the extractor grove.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02028-1.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

I didn't mention this method previously but Morris's Automated Roll Sizing Machine is the absolute Rolls Royce of sizing machines.

If you were planning on Reloading or Selling bulk .40 S&W brass commercially or any other 9mm/.45 ACP brass This is the way to do it. Cycle time is @ 60 rounds per minute or one case per second.

The Basic Machine is a different version of a hand operated Thread Rolling Machine. And a similar machine could be adapted from an existing Thread Roller just by changing the dies.

This machine will not only remove the bulge, it will Full Length Size for loading and it will also size the rim and base of the case as well. All in less than a second!

Randy

[gunoil]

I didnt get to state fair, they still make that big blue machine? Dillon or mr. morris make those machines? How much/ would ya know?

I'd rather watch that thing roll than the big rides at fair. Would love to see that thing on youtube running.

[Johnny_V]

I bulge bust all my 40, 45, & 380 brass. I use the Lee Factory Crimp die with a Lanolin and Alcohol lubricant and never had a case get stuck or crushed. For the 380 I made an extended adapter so the short cases don't hang up.
125066

[jmorris]

I didnt get to state fair, they still make that big blue machine? Dillon or mr. morris make those machines? How much/ would ya know?

I'd rather watch that thing roll than the big rides at fair. Would love to see that thing on youtube running.

The machine is a casepro rollsizer. I built the rest.

PW took my idea and sell a similar setup for the autodrive but it is just mounted to a flat plate and seems to flex too much from posts I have read from people who bought one.

I don't have a YouTube video of it posted but here is one on photobucket of it running.

http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/casepro1.mp4

You still need to size and deprime and expand to get proper neck tension.

[gunoil]

Wow! l see how that works. Kinda wish those could be bought. You have it dialed in. Thanks for short vid.

[gunoil]

Mr. WRB, you live at great place. Hung out at santa paula airport. Use to drop cars of at the port & smell all that garlic being dug up. Use to park my car hauler and sleep over @ camirillo airport. Comin back out there in a year l hope. My grandfather was a buchanan. Cousins in LA.

[jmorris]

Wow! l see how that works. Kinda wish those could be bought. You have it dialed in. Thanks for short vid.

You can order one here.

http://www.casepro100.com/

You could also rig something up like this if you just wanted an automated push through sizer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zbImsdkbg

[gunoil]

Thanks! Again

[Weaponologist]

I bought a Lee BB for my 45acp Brass that I had gotten from Range pick up. Noticed some had the Bulge and wouldn't fit in the Wilson case gage.
I do use Hornedy spray lube and it works great..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I BB all my 40 cal range pickups. I don't BB any other calibers.
I found it's easier to size them like I do boolits, on a up-side-down press.
Oh yeah, I lightly lube every fifth case or so...just use RCBS case lube on a pad
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/Heattreat1sizeandGC_zps0b78b77b.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/Heattreat1sizeandGC_zps0b78b77b.jpg.html)

[TheDoctor]

Whats your method of bb'ing pistol brass? Take's a huge force on some of them. Most members do not even mess with bb kit but l like too. Needs a dang hydrolic lever. 9's can be hard to do and no fun.

Lee states that you should use a 9mm Makarov die when bulge busting 9mm Luger.

If you download their catalog and scroll down to bulge busting kits, there is an * by the 9mm that will tell you that. I have not seen that info posted anywhere else. You would think it would be on their website!

[gunoil]

Good point "thedoctor" because lots of members may not have a catalog. I called 3 years ago talked to guy in the back and he sent me one. Is that mak base rim smaller than 9mm? The redding ones are nice too but more money ofcourse.

Could not find 9mm redding, but below are other calibers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/231187/redding-g-rx-carbide-base-sizing-die-kit-40-s-and-w-357-sig-10mm-auto?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[TheDoctor]

Handloaders manual of cartridge conversions shows 9mm Luger rim of .393, and a head diameter of .392 , 9mm Makarov rim of .396., and a head diameter of .390

[gunoil]

Dang it doc, that .2 will take more arm force? Now this aint for every body, semi-retired l like preppin brass. I'll let Dennis open it a lil' @ the shop. Thanks again.

[TheDoctor]

Doesn't make much sense does it? Unless that die sizes to the rim diameter? I do not know. I checked the numbers several times, unless the source is not accurate.

[dragon813gt]

9x19 - http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/9mm%20Luger%20-%209mm%20Luger%20+P.pdf

9x18 - http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/9%20x%2018%20Makarov.pdf

[jmorris]

My brass sorting machine, sorts by diameter, always drops 9x18 into the bin after 9x19, 380 would drop out before 9x19.

[gunoil]

Yea, get dennis to knock (bb die) it dwn .2, just for the heck of it. Take a star sizer and convert w/feeder? hum. l have a extra one. Just guessing.

Found that dang video: from magma star

http://youtu.be/v4L3Kw5u0q4

[gunoil]

Ya want this too:
http://youtu.be/7pi4cEHMj1s

[prs]

Whatever? You obviously know what you're looking for.:veryconfu

You might try shoving each case all the way thru the die. That is the way it is intended to be used,,, and you can't really expect another case to act as a pusher.

Incidentally I am the guy who told Lee that they needed to put together a kit to do this. We were already using the FCD to remove bulges. I sold pushers here that I made for several years before Lee came out with the kit,,, which I also have.

Randy

Randy, sometimes I put the case through mouth first, the way you show in the pics, and sometimes I run them through head first, that is with the mouth down over the push fitting. Since pistol brass seems to get shorter with successive reloadings, I figure the backward pass might in some small way compensate. Just folly probably, I never measure to see.

prs

[W.R.Buchanan]

prs: no reason you can't do that, however my pushers will only work mouth first, and they are not small enough to go inside the case .

If you do push base first then your pusher needs to have radiused corners on the front end so that the pusher doesn't hurt the web of the case.

Magma's case processor works this way. http://www.magmaengineering.com/case-master-jr-rimless-case-sizer/

Please note that in the video the guy states that the cases are Full Length resized. He is referring to being debulged. the cases still must be ran thru a normal FL sizing die to close the case mouth enough to hold a bullet.

The OD of a .40 S&W case after debulging is @.422-.423. A Full Length sizing die is about .417-8. The head of the case will NOT go thru a Full Length sizing die and I have one that I made because I had the bright idea that more sizing was better and I wanted to eliminate one step.

I never got one case thru that die!

Randy

[bdecker9]

I didn't read every post, I will but quit that kit ain't for 9mm, there's a taper to the case. Ruins your brass probably

[bdecker9]

My catalog says you can't do 9mm. So sorry for last post. That said, I have never saw any that needed done. And seems it's hard cause that mak. Die is smaller. I run my 9mm pretty hard sometimes, split some case mouths in my Ruger, but never have I bulged one

[Virginia John]

The 9mm BB is accomplished using a 9X18 sizing die not the 9X19.

[bdecker9]

Yeah that last post was after I read whole thread. Its seems that sizing the case head, which is solid, is where the resistance is coming from. Its hard to downsize lead. .002 if it's hard, brass much harder. This phone is killing me, computer is down. Can't type what I want to say and the auto correct puts words in my posts,

[jmorris]

The tapered case and ironing out the extractor groove is where roll sizers clearly beat out push through sizers (rimmed cases as well).

The dies are opposite one another and the case rolls between them while being sized.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02110.jpg

[gloob]

I usually debulge after sizing. I have even debulged loaded (jacketed) ammo. I don't abide space for the red container. I roll up a piece of printer paper and stick it in the die. When I fill it up, I pinch the bottom, lift it out, let off pressure to let the cases slide out into a bin, then stick it back in the die.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The tapered case and ironing out the extractor groove is where roll sizers clearly beat out push through sizers (rimmed cases as well).

The dies are opposite one another and the case rolls between them while being sized.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02110.jpg

Thanks for this photo. I've heard of roll sizing, but never had any idea how it worked and never took the time to research it. Your Photo makes it self explanatory to me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The way that Threads are rolled onto bolts is done with a machine just like Morris shows however the dies have threads on them instead of flats. These machines are automated so that they feed the bolt blanks into the machine automatically. So it is high volume, one bolt per cycle

The bolt blank which has had the shank ground to a specific size and depth is dropped into the die at one end and the threads are formed as the part is rolled between the dies, and at the end the finished bolt drops out the end.

I knew about this process many years before I heard of Roll Sizing Brass, however I have since found out that they have been roll sizing brass for just about as long as they have been thread rolling. The only difference between the two machines is the actual dies themselves, and the Manual machines like the Size Master are just like hand Screw Machines.

Randy

[jmorris]

These machines are automated so that they feed the bolt blanks into the machine automatically. So it is high volume, one bolt per cycle

The casepro is a manual machine but I did automate one of the ones I have.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02028-1.jpg