GoodOlBoy
12-21-2014, 03:07 PM
I got a bit fired up with somebody on chat the other night. You know who you are. I would like to apologize for how tone I took might have been interpreted, but not for the point I was trying to make.
What it boils down to is the dismissive attitude about "junk" 22 LR shells. The other person in the discussion took the attitude that if a singular website didn't use a certain brand and type of 22 (Remington golden bullet 22s in this case) in their indoor tests using a multi-thousand dollar rifle and scope combination in a no air movement indoor range then they were junk. No matter what they shot "shotgun" patterns at X meters. I was assured, no matter what my experience with them was, they were junk. Plain and simple. They didn't cost $25 and up per 50 so they were obviously worthless. So let me explain it this way, and see if I can explain my situation.
I use a 22 to put meat on the table (legal game with this cartridge only I am not proposing poaching). I have several 22 rifles as many folks do. No two of my 22s like the same ammunition. Period. Doesn't matter how much the round costs, or doesn't cost. Some ammo my guns like. Some they don't.
Most examples are of what my rifles shoot with me free standing and hunting.
Example #1 Ruger 10/22 factory rifle. About 10 years old. Iron sites. With this little rifle and Remington Golden bullet 22s I can shoot a nickle at 20 yards just about every time. That's minute of squirrel and rabbit. No other ammo is as accurate in this rifle. Doesn't matter how cheap, or how expensive, I have tried a good portion of them and the standard old BULK Golden bullet 22 LRs is what it likes. I tried a box of MUCH more expensive "Match" grade ammo earlier this year because it was all I could get (talking 50 cents a round, won't mention brand because I don't need to dismiss it as "junk"). I couldn't have hit a dollar bill at the same range with them. I know two other Ruger 10/22 owners who have the SAME results as I do. I know one other who can't get a golden bullet to group come heck or high water.
Example #2 Marlin Model 60 factory rifle. With a Simmons 4x32 Scope. This little rifle 25+ year old rifle will shoot CCI Stingers OK. About a quarter size or so group at 25 yards. With Aguila subsonic solid points it shoots a hair tighter. It will not group CCI Velocitors, Remington anything, Federal lightning, or Winchester anything (except the OLD Winchester Super X white box. The newer super X it won't shoot either) etc. There was an "off" brand of 22s from gander mountain a few years back that came in a "old west" style paper box that the rifle shot better than anything else. Lost the boxes, wish I knew what the heck they were (gander mountain doesn't have them any more) because I took many many little pot filling critters with them.
Example #3 A truly ancient and abused Winchester model 67 single shot. Iron sites. Barrel has a crown and bend issue that causes it to shoot to the right no matter what you do. This will be fixed eventually. Even with the pitted crown and slightly off barrel it will shoot 90% of shorts (Remington CCI etc) in a DIME sized group one inch right at 20 yards if I am braced against a tree. It will shoot a FEW subsonics and longs in about a quarter sized group. ANYTHING "Modern" and "Fast" you are better off throwing downrange a handful at a time.
What does this mean? Does it mean the brands my guns don't like are junk? Or does it mean my guns simply don't like them?
It means my guns don't like them. Once upon a time I believed in "junk" ammo. I really thought that companies just poured out cruddy ammo and people who would "spray and pray" bought it because they didn't know any better. Over time I have found just about every brand and type of ammo SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE had good luck with in their guns. Some of the brands I even despised and hated as junk I found were quite popular right here on cast boolits.
The long and short of it is this. I am not trying to invalidate your match grade multi-thousand dollar setup target rifles. If that is what you are in to, and it makes you happy more power to you. However I also won't have my rifles and ammo that I used to feed my family dismissed out of hand because some site who is PAID (either in money or free whatever) to do testing didn't test my brand, or ran it down because a SINGLE rifle didn't like the ammo. In fact if you tell me your brand worked for you I will defend your brand as working in your experience. Why? Because all our experiences are different. None of them are completely invalid in and of themselves. But we can make them invalid in the way we approach it.
Think about it this way. I know people who claim just about any caliber rifle, from 17 to 30-30 to 30-06 to 50 bmg and back, are "junk" guns/calibers. And I know people who use them better than I will ever be able to.
God Bless.
GoodOlBoy
What it boils down to is the dismissive attitude about "junk" 22 LR shells. The other person in the discussion took the attitude that if a singular website didn't use a certain brand and type of 22 (Remington golden bullet 22s in this case) in their indoor tests using a multi-thousand dollar rifle and scope combination in a no air movement indoor range then they were junk. No matter what they shot "shotgun" patterns at X meters. I was assured, no matter what my experience with them was, they were junk. Plain and simple. They didn't cost $25 and up per 50 so they were obviously worthless. So let me explain it this way, and see if I can explain my situation.
I use a 22 to put meat on the table (legal game with this cartridge only I am not proposing poaching). I have several 22 rifles as many folks do. No two of my 22s like the same ammunition. Period. Doesn't matter how much the round costs, or doesn't cost. Some ammo my guns like. Some they don't.
Most examples are of what my rifles shoot with me free standing and hunting.
Example #1 Ruger 10/22 factory rifle. About 10 years old. Iron sites. With this little rifle and Remington Golden bullet 22s I can shoot a nickle at 20 yards just about every time. That's minute of squirrel and rabbit. No other ammo is as accurate in this rifle. Doesn't matter how cheap, or how expensive, I have tried a good portion of them and the standard old BULK Golden bullet 22 LRs is what it likes. I tried a box of MUCH more expensive "Match" grade ammo earlier this year because it was all I could get (talking 50 cents a round, won't mention brand because I don't need to dismiss it as "junk"). I couldn't have hit a dollar bill at the same range with them. I know two other Ruger 10/22 owners who have the SAME results as I do. I know one other who can't get a golden bullet to group come heck or high water.
Example #2 Marlin Model 60 factory rifle. With a Simmons 4x32 Scope. This little rifle 25+ year old rifle will shoot CCI Stingers OK. About a quarter size or so group at 25 yards. With Aguila subsonic solid points it shoots a hair tighter. It will not group CCI Velocitors, Remington anything, Federal lightning, or Winchester anything (except the OLD Winchester Super X white box. The newer super X it won't shoot either) etc. There was an "off" brand of 22s from gander mountain a few years back that came in a "old west" style paper box that the rifle shot better than anything else. Lost the boxes, wish I knew what the heck they were (gander mountain doesn't have them any more) because I took many many little pot filling critters with them.
Example #3 A truly ancient and abused Winchester model 67 single shot. Iron sites. Barrel has a crown and bend issue that causes it to shoot to the right no matter what you do. This will be fixed eventually. Even with the pitted crown and slightly off barrel it will shoot 90% of shorts (Remington CCI etc) in a DIME sized group one inch right at 20 yards if I am braced against a tree. It will shoot a FEW subsonics and longs in about a quarter sized group. ANYTHING "Modern" and "Fast" you are better off throwing downrange a handful at a time.
What does this mean? Does it mean the brands my guns don't like are junk? Or does it mean my guns simply don't like them?
It means my guns don't like them. Once upon a time I believed in "junk" ammo. I really thought that companies just poured out cruddy ammo and people who would "spray and pray" bought it because they didn't know any better. Over time I have found just about every brand and type of ammo SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE had good luck with in their guns. Some of the brands I even despised and hated as junk I found were quite popular right here on cast boolits.
The long and short of it is this. I am not trying to invalidate your match grade multi-thousand dollar setup target rifles. If that is what you are in to, and it makes you happy more power to you. However I also won't have my rifles and ammo that I used to feed my family dismissed out of hand because some site who is PAID (either in money or free whatever) to do testing didn't test my brand, or ran it down because a SINGLE rifle didn't like the ammo. In fact if you tell me your brand worked for you I will defend your brand as working in your experience. Why? Because all our experiences are different. None of them are completely invalid in and of themselves. But we can make them invalid in the way we approach it.
Think about it this way. I know people who claim just about any caliber rifle, from 17 to 30-30 to 30-06 to 50 bmg and back, are "junk" guns/calibers. And I know people who use them better than I will ever be able to.
God Bless.
GoodOlBoy