Lyman All-American Turret Modification

[Russian 54r]

Hello to all and a Merry Christmas from the "Newbie." I recently bought a Lyman All-American Turett press for $20. It was in sad shape so I disassembled everything, polished moving parts, painted and lubed. It seems to be in good usable shape. Has anyone known of a modification to the auto primer feed to use the modern feeder? My unit didn't come with the arm and attachments. I know I could just buy a new modern press but I like tinkering and the challenge. Thanks

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20141219_142132_zps5fac6b8b.jpg

[salpal48]

I don't feel you will be able to modify the AA with a universal prime system. It will be worth the weight to find a complete set. They come on ebay sometime but complete will be expensive. $ 60 and up. . It is better to run 2 machine keeping one for large and one for small. Most guys don't like them because they did not take the time to set them. > The change over is time comsuming. i leave mine set. I now run 4 / .LR<SR< LP<SP. all will prime perfectly. . i have been using mine since the 1960's

[EddieNFL]

I use mine for one specific load. I have only SP setup, but I prime off the press. The last LP set I saw on ebay was listed at about $100.

[Russian 54r]

I don't feel you will be able to modify the AA with a universal prime system. It will be worth the weight to find a complete set. They come on ebay sometime but complete will be expensive. $ 60 and up. . It is better to run 2 machine keeping one for large and one for small. Most guys don't like them because they did not take the time to set them. > The change over is time comsuming. i leave mine set. I now run 4 / .LR<SR< LP<SP. all will prime perfectly. . i have been using mine since the 1960's

It's all for the "fun" of it. I just like tinkering to see if I can make something work a little better. I don't load a lot of ammo anymore so it's just not that important. It's a pain living in the city and having to drive forever to go to a rifle range. I don't shoot pistols that much so I don't go to indoor ranges.

[Russian 54r]

I was thinking of something like a push type auto feeder. I could make a mounting bracket onto the base. What ya think?

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/805529_zpsee43d0bc.jpg

[EddieNFL]

Have to determine if the measurements will work with type J shell holders.

[Russian 54r]

Have to determine if the measurements will work with type J shell holders.

If I machine it I could make it any dimensions necessary. (It's nice to own a little home machine shop!)

[georgerkahn]

Congrats on both your purchase, as well as the incredibly low price you acquired it for! I have THREE of these, and use them regularly -- each set up for a caliber I regularly load. Although one of mine came with primer seater, I'm a 100% user of the RCBS bench mounted primer tool. Re your press, it is important is to have the screw under the turret in rear pretty tight up against it -- easy adjustment -- to keep turret from upward/downward movement -- mine all came sans any instructions, and it took a while before I even noticed this adjustment screw. For what it's worth, I full-length size on an RCBS single stage press; trim on a Wilson trimmer; and prime with the RCBS tool. I now have a clean, trimmed, and primed case. Eliminating these steps on the All American, my "1st" stage is now to flare mouth; "2nd" to drop powder; "3rd" to seat boolit; and "4th" is to use a Lee Factory Crimp die... Works for me...
BEST!
georgerkahn

[44Vaquero]

A C&H 4D Priming assembly might be able to be modified to work on an AA?

https://www.ch4d.com/products/equipment/presses/apf

[salpal48]

This system looks like a redding. the old lyman Comet had a similar one using a push device with the j shellholdes and there primer stem. I also have those which also work well.
Sal
I was thinking of something like a push type auto feeder. I could make a mounting bracket onto the base. What ya think?

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/805529_zpsee43d0bc.jpg

[Russian 54r]

Is the shell holder adapter supposed to flop around or should I make a sleeve for it to fit into?

[salpal48]

On the comet, It takes the same shell holder that you have in your machine. It also takedsthe same prime post. except you pushed the post forward under the ram after you pulled the case into the die . On the down stroke it went into the center of the shell holder and primed. This press was used @ the same time as the AA but later discontinued for the later Spartan I would show you a photo but am away for christmas

[Russian 54r]

Thanks Salpal48. I just figured it out! there is a Allen head screw that goes into the hole of the adapter. I also added a screw to hole the shell holder into the adapter.

[Russian 54r]

Started milling the base to accept a push style primer feed. Will post pics a little later when I get out of the shop.

[Russian 54r]

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20141220_192148_zps7ee0cba9.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20141220_213623_zpsca5ae3c8.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20141220_213500_zps52ccb592.jpg

[Green Frog]

I would probably have paid $20 just for that adaptor bushing on the turret. Not all of the All American presses came with that one oversized hole (for loading shotshells with a special die set.) Great find! Keep us "in the loop" on how that prier feed set up works out.

Froggie

[dragonrider]

If you have a Lee Auto Prime II you need not make any alterations to your press.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/IMG_5735_zpse01d4a72.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PaulGauthier/media/IMG_5735_zpse01d4a72.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/IMG_5737_zps7667854a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PaulGauthier/media/IMG_5737_zps7667854a.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/IMG_5736_zpsa42dc559.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PaulGauthier/media/IMG_5736_zpsa42dc559.jpg.html)

All I did was turn the threaded area to fit the hole for the shell holder and put a 1/4" rod where you would mount the primer punch. But it is going to be interesting to see where you are going with this.

[44Vaquero]

124930 The AA uses the same priming pins as the Tru-line Jr. and they will not work with the J to X adaptor but lyman still sells a pin that will.

Dragonrider that is about the most unique install of an Auto-Prime II that I have ever seen!

[Russian 54r]

Dragonrider, I really like the idea you presented with the Lee Auto Primer II. I think I will buy one, even thought they are discontinued, but will still keep going with my original idea just to see how it works out. The Lee product would probably be more reliable. Thanks for your input

UPDATE 12:15 EST
Well I found one on eBad but it was expensive for what they normally go for. I paid $45 delivered which is twice what they are worth before they were discontinued. However it is a new/old stock item. Still gonna keep going with my push-type project though.

[Green Frog]

Dragonrider, that looks like a good idea with the hybridization of Lyman and Lee, especially since that's one of the few presses Lyman ever made in red!! ;) My only complaint is that although it should be fine with most pistol cartridges, the assembly appears to take up a fair amount of space between shell holder and turret, thus limiting the length of rifle rounds that can be loaded. What is the actual distance you are now left with? :?: I'd love to see an "exploded view" of the parts you used and exactly what modifications you had to make to them.

Froggie

[Dr.S]

Dragonrider, that looks like a good idea with the hybridization of Lyman and Lee, especially since that's one of the few presses Lyman ever made in red!!
Froggie
I have a Lyman powder measure thats green.Is it worth more ?

[Russian 54r]

Looks like most rifle cartridges won't have a problem to me. The picture shows the handle about half way pulled downward. My "dumber than dirt" project is going on the back burner till after the holidays. Leaving town and while gone I'll have to do some thinking about my mod. Starting to think it's going to be a little harder than I originally had envisioned in my walnut sized brain.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Avatars%20Logos/LXKid.jpghttp://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Avatars%20Logos/eagle.gif

[too many things]

just do the hand thing its much faster
you are new to the AA you can do the pick up and stick WAY faster.

[dragonrider]

OK here is another pic of the primer. It shows the modified unit alongside an unmodified unit. Really not much to do just a bit of turning to get a stem about .561" to fit the hole in the press, could have made it another .400" shorter, as it is now the longest I can put in it is 30-06 which is the longest case I have. However remove the turret and length is not a problem.
As far as "just do the hand thing its much faster" Perhaps for some but my own forays into hand priming were much less than enjoyable. I use the unmodified unit in my RC and all my rifle cases are primed with this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/PaulGauthier/IMG_5738_zps83faa3e5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PaulGauthier/media/IMG_5738_zps83faa3e5.jpg.html)

[Green Frog]

Thanks, dragonrider. Now I understand the process. With regard to removing the turret though; the only reason I would want to have an on-press priming unit is so that I can decap and resize on the downswing then recap on the upswing... disassembling the press, even in part, seems a little extreme to me. Then again, I've been mostly hand priming just about everything I've loaded (other than those on a progressive press) for about the last 25-30 years, so I guess the attraction for on-press priming is a little elusive to me. BTW, I have a Lyman (factory) priming unit for the All American, NIB. It's collectible I guess, but I've never seen the need to install it. Go figure. :?

Thanks to both Russian 54r and dragonrider for the pix and descriptions, though. It's always useful to expand our horizons by seeing what other folks are up to. Sometimes a new slant on things can lead us to breakthroughs of our own. :brokenima

Best regards and Merry Christmas,
the Green Frog

[Russian 54r]

Thank you Dragonrider for suggesting the Lee Auto Primer II. Finished the modification tonight and looks like it will work very good. I cut my shoulder about 5/8" more to allow the cartridge to sit lower than the one pictured in Drangonrider's photo. Now gotta find some time to load up some ammo and give it a test.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/20141228_222809_zpsa4dab66a.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/20141228_222932_zpsd3941f5c.jpg

[44Vaquero]

This might just be the most sensible modification to an All American that I have ever seen!

I might even look at whipping one up for my tru-line jr. It solves the annoying problem of locating J-Type shell holders at a decent price. The reduction in stroke is not an issue since I only load pistol cartridges on it.

[Russian 54r]

This might just be the most sensible modification to an All American that I have ever seen!

I might even look at whipping one up for my tru-line jr. It solves the annoying problem of locating J-Type shell holders at a decent price. The reduction in stroke is not an issue since I only load pistol cartridges on it.

Pretty sure it will do all popular rifle cartridges except some of the longer belted magnum rounds.

[Russian 54r]

Finally got around to trying to pump out some ammo today. Had to go back to the designing stage though. The push pins I made just weren't gonna do it. There was an alignment problem when it came up thru the shell holder. I went back to Lee's original push pins with with a spring and small washer sitting atop the spring to keep it straight aligned with the primer feed and shell holder. Works fine as long as I "hand" feed primers one at a time from top of the shell holder. The primers don't slide so good down the shoot. I also had to make a bushing inside the shell holder for alignment to the bottom of the cartridge pocket. (I don't think I got all the correct parts when I bought the "used" auto feed.) Pic is of .223 Rem.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150120_133432_zpsc3f17f15.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150120_191739_zps1a4802fa.jpg

[Russian 54r]

I'm going to have to machine a spring loaded cup primer pin to keep primers from doubling or binding/aligning. So this is still a work in progress!

[Green Frog]

Rube Goldberg would be proud! :wink:

I'm still having one problem visualizing the process :coffeecom on the resizing and decapping stroke, where does the spent primer go? Does it drop out under the shell holder and fall free toward the operator, leaving a clear path for the new primer to go up and in? I can see where controlling the primer feed to just put a single primer onto the stem each time will be an important part of the process... could you just modify the Lee unit by mounting on a stem you fab up to get the height and spacing right? :confused:

Something I really like about this whole project is that ultimately there is no modification to the press itself... "No All American Presses were harmed in the making of this project!" :-D

The adventure continues! :mrgreen:

Froggie

[Russian 54r]

Rube Goldberg would be proud! :wink:
I'm still having one problem visualizing the process :coffeecom on the resizing and decapping stroke, where does the spent primer go? Does it drop out under the shell holder and fall free toward the operator, leaving a clear path for the new primer to go up and in? I can see where controlling the primer feed to just put a single primer onto the stem each time will be an important part of the process... could you just modify the Lee unit by mounting on a stem you fab up to get the height and spacing right? :confused:
Something I really like about this whole project is that ultimately there is no modification to the press itself... "No All American Presses were harmed in the making of this project!" :-D
The adventure continues! :mrgreen:
Froggie

There is no problem with primer removal as it just falls out the bottom. Something could be improvised to catch the old primer. I take a couple pics, a little later, that will show a spring loaded cup that will hold the primer in alignment with the cartridge hole so as not needing the bushing I put in the shell holder. My biggest problem, right now, is getting the primer shoot to let the primers flow easily. Thanks for your interest!

[Russian 54r]

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_090834_zps14c5f630.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_091415-2_zps34eaf956.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_091549_zps712ec90c.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_091721_zps2ba7690e.jpg

[Russian 54r]

I don't know why I didn't use unit on top turret instead of the bottom. "Maybe" I just don't know why the heck I'm doing! Somewhere along the way I "think" I was told it wouldn't work on the top turret.

[44Vaquero]

128211
This is the original Auto-Prime 2 set up. The captive primer pin is held in center by the Black Plastic Primer Chute (There are 2 sizes for large or small primers). As for getting the primers to flow easily, note that the holder is machined to allow wiggling of the feed chute. A casual flick now and then keeps them moving along.

[Russian 54r]

128211
This is the original Auto-Prime 2 set up. The captive primer pin is held in center by the Black Plastic Primer Chute (There are 2 sizes for large or small primers). As for getting the primers to flow easily, note that the holder is machined to allow wiggling of the feed chute. A casual flick now and then keeps them moving along.

I received all those same parts except the spring. I also got a spring primer cup on a different shaft not pictured but can't see how it would be part of the auto feed. It seems that this could go right on top of the turret except now I've machined the base. Maybe I can find another threaded base and try it again. Any way this is for a fun project and I have a good RCBS RockChucker. That being said I used this Lyman to reload 200 round of .223 Rem today.

[Russian 54r]

Don't know why I didn't put to on top in the first place. I guess equipment ignorance of how it worked. So I made a bushing so I could remount everything back on top and it seems to work just fine.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_201552_zpsa46c308a.jpg


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_203403_zpsd05aabf2.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150121_204055_zps1d3d2d64.jpg

[Russian 54r]

What is this that hole for in the shoot as pictured below?

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/20150120_133432_zps18d1775f.jpg

[44Vaquero]

That small hole is for the agitator rod on the Pro-1000! There is a series of grooves cut in the rear support of the Pro-1000 the rod rides along the rear support and in theory shakes the primers down the chute.

[Russian 54r]

That small hole is for the agitator rod on the Pro-1000! There is a series of grooves cut in the rear support of the Pro-1000 the rod rides along the rear support and in theory shakes the primers down the chute.

Sounds like the problem I'm having. Maybe put a nail or something in there and give it a little thump every once in awhile. I also drilled a little hole towards the die and added a small pin to block the primers from falling all over the place when I remove the chute. Thanks

[claude]

Nice thread gentlemen, helpful by a good margin.

[dragonrider]

The reason I mounted it where I did is because at the time I did not have a shell holder adapter to hold the push rod. I have since made one and can mount the other unit I have in the turret as it should be. Of course all I really had to do was make a longer push rod of about 4 or 5 inches in length that would have mounted in the push rod hole and stuck up through the hole for the shell holder and into the priming device in the turret, but that would have been too easy and my thought switch was not on "easy" that day. [smilie=b:

P.S. to help the primers slide down the ramp/shoot easier take it apart, the two halves just snap together, and wax it with some Johnsons paste wax, works like a charm.

[Russian 54r]

P.S. to help the primers slide down the ramp/shoot easier take it apart, the two halves just snap together, and wax it with some Johnsons paste wax, works like a charm.

I'll give it a try. Thanks

[Russian 54r]

Still plugging away at trying to make a "silk purse out of a sows ear!" Decided that best way, for the moment, is to just hand load primers one at a time. I made "yet another" bushing so I could get the chute out of the way. I also made an aluminum cup, with cut-out for fingering the primers out one at at time. It keeps the primers close by so less opportunity to drop them. Also glued magnet on bottom so it won't slide off. You'll also see a large nut, I placed under, to keep from over pulling the handle when priming.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150123_091845_zps7f9209ff.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150123_093803_zps73d1d343.jpg[/URL]

[Green Frog]

Still plugging away at trying to make a "silk purse out of a sows ear!"...

More like "Gilding the Lily" IMHO! You are starting from one of the great turret presses of all times and seeking to add to its utility. Sounds like a positive thing to me. Thanks for the ongoing updates!

Froggie

[44Vaquero]

Ok, 54R now you have lost me? I have had/used the AP2 for 20 years, keep the tray full and it works great, you can see the primers moving/sliding. If they are not moving just wiggle the chute. What you have now is really no improvement over the original Lyman set up?

[Russian 54r]

Gave my primer pin spacer nut a home so it won't get lost!

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/20150123_184335_zps8d2d80c0.jpg[/URL]

[Russian 54r]

Guess i did an dumb dumb! I selected and deleted a bunch of pics from Photobucket account. I thought they would stay in my posting but I guess not! One by one primer installation seems to work out pretty good and probably just as fast. Gonna have to think on the primer tube a while.

Gonna take it easy for awhile cause looks like I just came down with the Flu. I anyone thinks of some way to make this chute work out let me know. Thanks

[Russian 54r]

Can someone take a couple of pics of the primer pin coming up thru the chute, picking up a primer and on up thru the shell holder? I just don't see how a primer wouldn't be falling off the pin because the shell holder hole is soo large.

[44Vaquero]

54R, you are overthinking the operation of the Auto-Prime II. The unguided distance the primer travels is less then .25 inch. The pin in fact operates similar to the priming pins in both the Pro-1000 and the Load Master. As with those presses it is important that a press using the AP-II be securely mounted to avoid any rattles that could potentially move the primer out of position before it contacts the case pocket.


Additionally the primer a small primer has dia of .177 and the hole in a Lee .38/.357 shell holders hole dia is .25, the primer can not fall off, all though it can move off center. There actually needs to be a small amount of slop allowed to allow the primer to float into a off center case etc.

[BruceB]

I must say that it's fascinating, watching all the machinations, permutations and think-tanking going on here to create a primer-feeding device for the A-A press.

After almost fifty years of having my All-American bolted down as my primary press, I suppose my "moves" have become rather "well-grooved", because I just don't find it to be any detraction at all to just place each primer in the priming post by hand as needed. Never a problem with "contamination" (or anything else).

It's also easy to catch the expelled primers in an open hand.

Production certainly has not seemed to be impeded, either.

BUT.... carry on, gentlemen; I'm enjoying the thread and I'm very interested to see where it's going to end up.

[Russian 54r]

I just ordered a Hornady shell holder cause they indicate it's a tighter fit to the case. My #4 just seems too sloppy and doesn't grab the rim well. Be here in a few days. My Rock Chucker will do it all faster but "aren't I just having too much fun!" This Flu bug I've got is keeping me up too late!

[Russian 54r]

The Hornady shell holder is the way to go! No slop and really makes things work better.

[Russian 54r]

Yup, I'm still plugging away at this old hand loader. Figured out how to keep the primers from going everywhere. Used a small jar lid and put a hole in the center. Then put some cotton in the bottom so they don't jump out! Catches about 90% of them.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/LX_Kid/Guns/20150212_214834_zps444bc0c0.jpg

[Russian 54r]

About the only problem encountered now is with military primer pockets that I don't get rid of enough of the crimp and some civilian brass is also crimped.