I want a High Wall but dont want a 45-70..................

[GARD72977]

I ordered a Uberti 32-20 Tuesday and have since decided that I want to get back into single shots. Im looking at C.Sharps High Wall but cant decide on a cartridge. I have owned a lot of 45-70s and would really like something different. There seems to be problems with most of the calibers. My criteria is the same as BPCR SILHOUETTE. This will cover what I want to do with it but I doubt that I will compete with this gun. I shoot in too may other competitions to have time for another! I want this gun to be light enough to shoot offhand (12lbs or less) but heavy enough to be stable from sticks. Im a good offhand shooter and handle heavy guns well.

Im looking at

38-55 Love the cartridge but would like a slower twist than offered for heavier bullets
40-70 SS Really like this one but brass can be a issue (there is a original high wall on GB in 40-70 sharps right now)
40-65 Not sure about loading a BN black powder cartridge
40-50 SS kind of like the idea but don't know it its enough power
405 WIN not really a BPCR round but brass is available and it has a cool factor
45-70 great cartridge but it does not excite me
45-90 a lot of cartridge and uses more powder and lead but brass is not a issue
45-100 if im considering a 45-90 the why not! Just more of a good thing and brass is not much more

I want to add a nice single shot every year so this does not have to be a do it all gun. Just need some suggestion on cartridges and the reasons you shoot them.

[ColColt]

Go for the 40-65. It's a tapered cartridge, not bottle neck and if push comes to shove you can always use 45-70 cases to make your brass. It's the same rim and length as the 45-70. There are a host of moulds out there for .40 caliber and choices are almost unlimited.

[Gunlaker]

If you want to shoot silhouette in a highwall you won't go wrong with a .40-65. It's an excellent cartridge. The .40-70 is more cool, but harder to get brass for. The .40-65 is easy to make brass for out of .45-70 cases. The benefit of making them yourself is that they will not be too short which is a complaint I've heard about .40-65 Starline before.

A 400gr bullet over 58gr of FFFg has enough energy to topple the rams and the recoil is gentle enough for good offhand shooting.

If I were building a new silhouette rifle on a highwall action I'd go that way. Or a .38-50 Remington Hepburn with a quick twist.

Chris.

[GARD72977]

The twist is a problem. C. Sharps does not offer much in the way of fast twist barrels. He is not a talker on the phone either. I didn't realize the 40-65 was tapered. Is there any problem with a fouling ring with this round?

[country gent]

If ordering from C Sharps you can get your choice of barrel twists ussually. Pedersoli uberti and factory prodution dont offer this choice. I have 40-65 ( Tapered case not bottle necked) and really like it alot its in a CPA shillouete model with 30" barrel, A 45-70 my first foray into Black powder cartridges ( a pendersoli sharps with 34" barrel) and a 45-90 C Sharps Hepburn ( 1-18 twist 34" barrel) all are accurate and can be fun to use. A match with the full loaded 45-90 can get to be a long day due to recoil. Talk to C Sharps and see whats available for 38-55 if thats what you really want. Some of the 44 calibers are interesting also but cases can be an issue. I am getting ready to build a 38-55 on a rolling block action with a green river barrel. Send C Sharps an e-mail and ask whats available for twists and what is recomended. Have an idea of uses for the rifle, finished wieght you want, barrel length, length of pull, and anu other options you may want.

[Gunlaker]

I've had my .40-65 for a little more than a year now and I'd say it's pretty comparable fouling-wise to my .45-70's. I wipe rather than blow tube though. Mine is a Shiloh with a 1:16 twist barrel which seems to really suit the Saeco 740 bullet.

If the guy you spoke to was kind of gruff then it was probably John you spoke to. There is a fellow there named Pete that is more of your customer relations type :-).

They should be able to get anything that Green Mountain produces, but I imagine that they order big batches of barrels at a time and just sell what they have on hand. It would be nice if they would bring one in for you. You might be able to send them a GM barrel yourself and get the to build the rifle with it. They seem to be reasonably open to custom stuff as they recently built a nice 1885 for me using a reamer I supplied.

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

40-60 Maynard
The smartest BPCR round available. :wink:
Built on the Krag case formed to 2.200" by .400-.408"

[Don McDowell]

44-90 Remington straight. CSA's reamer on that one is tight, has a gentle lead that will handle either patched or grooved bullets. The cartridge is easy to get along with, form it from 45-90 brass, and will let you go from the chicken's on the sillouette line, to the x ring on a 1000 yd creedmoor target.

[Lead pot]

I asked John once if he would build me a 85 using my Krieger .44 barrel and my reamer for it and his reply was, I wouldn't put that piece of **** on my action or use your reamer.

[Don McDowell]

Yeh he gets a little testy about some things. He does use Green Mtn barrels now, so that gives the 44's a fast enough twist to stabilize the 500 gr bullets..
If they ever get in some heavy contour 22 barrels I might twist off and order a low wall with the bells and whistles, unless I get all slathered up and have a CPA purpose built...

[EDG]

Call it a 40-70 SS or 40 2.5 SS and use .405 Win brass.

The 40-65 is a mutt of a round originally a .406 for the 1886 Win.
The current single shot version has a faster twist and .408 groove diameter.
There are several different chambers. Be sure to get one that works with commonly available dies.

[GARD72977]

I sent a message to C.Sharps to find out what brass there 40-70 reamer is intended for. Im thinking that I just need to pony up for the brass because I would always be sorry if I didn't. I would like some information on how to configure the gun for off hand silhouette shooting. do I need a check rest and pistol grip? Barrel length and contour. Im thinking about getting the gun as close to 11.25 lbs with out sights as I can.

Has anyone ever just ordered a gun in the white and let it patina. I see a lot of originals with no finish left. I think it would be cool with real dark wood and a heavy patina.

After reading about the 40-65 I really like it but not for this gun. Im hoping for good news on the 40-70.

[Gunlaker]

Wow Kurt, I've never found John to be overly friendly but that surprises me. Pete was the guy I dealt with when they used my reamer. They did a really nice job on the rifle too. I'm not yet sold on Green Mountain barrels yet though. The rifle is very accurate, but it holds onto more fouling than any of my Badger, Shiloh, or RKS barrels. At the moment I'm using 4 wets and a dry between shots. Maybe after a couple of thousand rounds of paper patches it'll get better.

Chris.

[kokomokid]

40-65 can have a lot of mutations such as the Ron Long chamber has a ghost neck about .500 long and may have a tight neck or not. Hope c-sharps stays away from Krieger **** barrels and maybe barrel order time will stay under a year.

[Boz330]

I have a C Sharps 85 in 40-65 and like it but then it has a Badger Barrel. I also have a C Sharps 75 in 38-55 with the 1-15 twist and it shoots the Lyman downsized Postel like a house afire but does reasonably well with the Lee 250gr boolit for hunting. IIRC the Green Mountain barrels are 1-14 which may make a difference with the shorter boolit.

Bob

[rfd]

you have no real productive purpose for this proposed rifle, so the best opinion as to what caliber to get is yer own, not mine nor that of anyone else.

good luck in your pleasure journey.

[GARD72977]

you have no real productive purpose for this proposed rifle, so the best opinion as to what caliber to get is yer own, not mine nor that of anyone else.

good luck in your pleasure journey.

I shoot airgun silhouette and would like to be able to shoot a BPRC match but will not have time to be a regular competitor.

[Don McDowell]

Still think the 44-90 st is the way to go.

[rfd]

I shoot airgun silhouette and would like to be able to shoot a BPRC match but will not have time to be a regular competitor.

bpcr at what distances and what type of competition? if silhouettes, you'll need the down range energy of a .40 caliber or higher to consistently knock over the rams at 500 meters. some will get by with .38-55, but marginally. for paper punching, that could be most any caliber, BUT as dictated by the distance.

i will say, it's very hard to beat the ever ubiquitous .45-70 as a one rifle caliber suitable for 200 to 1000 yards. it's all i use after having flirted with the .38's and .40's.

i will add - the easiest actions to field strip for cleaning and maintenance are the sharps, rolling block and cpa stevens. the high walls - as i've been told - are a bugger to work on, fwiw.

[Gunlaker]

I agree about the Sharps being really easy to strip for cleaning. The C. Sharps 1885's are a little more difficult, but still reasonably easy. One small screw for the lever pin, pull the pin and the breech block drops out. The firing pins are also very easy to replace. I find that my CPA is trickier than the 1885 by just a little bit. To replace the firing pin you need a punch to knock out a roll pin. From what I understand, the older CPA's did not use a roll pin.

The only tricky part with the CPA and 1885's, for me, is lining everything up to get the lever pin in. I slide in a slightly undersized punch to help line everything up. It definitely takes longer than a Sharps though.

Chris.

[rfd]

and most remington rolling blocks are the easiest of all.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Go for the 40-65. It's a tapered cartridge, not bottle neck and if push comes to shove you can always use 45-70 cases to make your brass. It's the same rim and length as the 45-70. There are a host of moulds out there for .40 caliber and choices are almost unlimited.

It is hard to go wrong with the .40-65. If you have to use smokeless powder, it is one of the best for this purpose. It could be a mistake to base your choice on some unusual brass being currently made to a good standard of quality. In a few years it may not be. But .45-70 brass will be available as long as there are guns.

The .40-90 is indeed a better long range cartridge than the .45-70, if you use black powder. Otherwise it isn't. But if you want to use heavy bullets, it is a good idea to check what sort of reamer will be used. The standard Winchester .45-90 chamber had a very short throat, since its original purpose was for lever-actions, in which the cartridge overall length is strictly limited by the action. With a longer throat (which can be reamed with an inexpensive throat reamer in an existing chamber) it should be fine.

[Chill Wills]

The .40-90 is indeed a better long range cartridge than the .45-70, if you use black powder. Otherwise it isn't. But if you want to use heavy bullets, it is a good idea to check what sort of reamer will be used. The standard Winchester .45-90 chamber had a very short throat, since its original purpose was for lever-actions, in which the cartridge overall length is strictly limited by the action. With a longer throat (which can be reamed with an inexpensive throat reamer in an existing chamber) it should be fine.

Did you intend to type 40-90? (BN?) (SS?) Typo maybe?

in 45-90 BPCR chambers or 45 2.4" singleshot I really like to have the lead angle begin just in front of the case mouth. The cylinder free bore that gets put in can work too but for me, I much rather not have it .......or go to a 45-100 with out the free bore giving about the same powder charge and overall case length.

[Lead pot]

The first tine I stripped my CPA I had a terrible time getting it together so the hammer would cock. I finally called Gail to get straightened out. First thing she asked "did the hammer spring get unhooked ?" :shock:
I found to put the hammer on halve cock before pulling the block out makes things a lot easier keeping the spring engaged.
I also made a slave pin out of some drill rod to hold the extractor in place better to insert the lever pin.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Did you intend to type 40-90? (BN?) (SS?) Typo maybe?

in 45-90 BPCR chambers or 45 2.4" singleshot I really like to have the lead angle begin just in front of the case mouth. The cylinder free bore that gets put in can work too but for me, I much rather not have it .......or go to a 45-100 with out the free bore giving about the same powder charge and overall case length.

Yes, it was just a small slip of the brain, but the same argument applies to the long and short versions of both those calibres.

Yes, rifles are contrary beasts, and the shape of bullets can be hard to judge. Some heavy bullets may do very well with a short throat, and others not. I don't believe any .303 was ever made incapable of shooting the 215gr. bullet which was superseded quite a few years before the First World War. Here is a photograph of the 160gr. Hornady round-nose which everybody would say was perfect for my Mannlicher-Schoenauer, together with a copy of the Swedish military spitzer they would say isn't. But when they are supported in a caliper adjusted to land diameter, the distance to the point and distance to the base are almost identical.


125114

[Gunlaker]

Thanks for the tip Kurt. I haven't had that happen to mine yet, but will set it on half cock next time just in case.

Chris.

[kokomokid]

CW; Is there any advantage to 40-60 maynard over a 40-65? Powder cap?

[semtav]

Call it a 40-70 SS or 40 2.5 SS and use .405 Win brass.

.

40-72 I think would be a good one. since it is almost identical to the 405. especially if you use the 405 reamer and stamp it 40-72.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I sent a message to C.Sharps to find out what brass there 40-70 reamer is intended for. Im thinking that I just need to pony up for the brass because I would always be sorry if I didn't. I would like some information on how to configure the gun for off hand silhouette shooting. do I need a check rest and pistol grip? Barrel length and contour. Im thinking about getting the gun as close to 11.25 lbs with out sights as I can.

Has anyone ever just ordered a gun in the white and let it patina. I see a lot of originals with no finish left. I think it would be cool with real dark wood and a heavy patina.

After reading about the 40-65 I really like it but not for this gun. Im hoping for good news on the 40-70.

Starting with a rifle in the white is an interesting idea, but I am not sure the makers would look favourably on what might, for all the they know, end up as scabious-looking rifles out there with their name on. A lot more people are likely to see the rifle than hear the explanation, and those will say "Finish doesn't last."

Besides, most of the originals used to be blued - other than a few odd examples, such as my French ordnance revolvers, which can legitimately be restored to bright, smooth metal.) So handling leaves a distinct pattern of bluing remaining, possibly browned, in protected areas. If I had the objective you describe, I think I would do the rifle with Birchwood Casey Plum Brown, boiled until almost black, and then subject it to lengthy treatment, when assembled, with the finest steel wool. But it is one of the most durable finishes I know, and might not take a bit of notice of the steel wool.

[Dan4570]

Hi,

I do own a 38-55, (1893 Marlin Short Rifle that doesnt come out if it might rain) however I was told that it is rather under powered long range. I was going to let my 12 year old daughter shoot it at the Q. but the stock was just too long for her.

The guys a few vender spots over from me were all shooting 40's , 40-50 Sharps bottle necks. You could hear them hit @ 805 yds !
I got to researching and a 40-50 SS is looking very shooter friendly for a certain young lady I know. However 40-70, and 40-65 are write easy to find brass for (quick call to Trackofthewolf, and brass will be on the way)

I have done quite a bit of reading on line the past few months (about 6 months now) and I have decided on a 40 for her. easy to do , I just re-bbl the rolling block I allready have for her to shoot.
The 40's have caught my interest and I have only ever heard 1 complaint about a 40 cal. However that knucklehead tried to tackle about 2,300 lbs of buffallo with a 40-70 @ about 300+ yds...(thats what he told me) needless to say, he learned a lesson, and decided that bullet size mattered in some situations. He told me that he shot it 4 times, the last shot @ about 75 yds as it charged him and he head shot it and ruined the skull.
but I have been told that 40-65 is plenty for elk, 1000+lbs buff and about everything else down to gophers and chipmunks.
A 40-65 would however be a nice match in a Highwall !
I am in the middle of a 45-90 purchase myself....but I want a 45-90, something a little more than a 45-70 I have now, which will easily convert to 40-65 for my little shooting buddy. I look forward to playing with a 40 cal...maybe next year.

The real question is , is what caliber are you interested in the most ?

If you can narrow that down your half way there.