Leading at the forcing cone

[tomme boy]

I got a new GP100 in 357 mag. It is shooting well. But I am getting a little lead in the forcing cone and about 1/8" into the rifling. The rest of the barrel is spotless. The forcing cone is really rough and there is a distinct ridge all the way around the cone right before the rifling. I am pretty sure this is were the leading is coming from.

What would be the easiest and cheapest way to correct this? This is my first time reloading for a revolver also.

[cbrick]

A picture would help. If I'm visualizing what your saying correctly I would call Ruger and probably be sending it back to them to either re-cut the forcing cone or replace the barrel.

Rick

[tomme boy]

Not mine but it looks about the same.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/odessastraight/_DEF3794_zps098a3622.jpg

[cbrick]

Were it mine it would go back. Notice the leade in to the rifling? Me either, there isn't any. Just a sharp edge to start the rifling which of course will cut bullet material. If you had gotten it used I'd say re-cut it yourself or have a smith do it but you said "new" so.

Rick

[725]

Recut the cone yourself. Tool isn't too expensive from Brownell's. It's easy. Two different cutters available (you only need one). then you will have the tool to dress up your other guns. I had a .22 that spit lead. Now it behaves.

[dubber123]

If I'm seeing correctly, I think firelapping would cure your problem. Sorry you have to fiddle with your new purchase.

[cbrick]

A brand new revolver cut that poorly is not a candidate for fire lapping. It needs to be checked to see IF it can be recut correctly, if not it needs a new barrel.

Rick

[DougGuy]

It needs the forcing cone recut. Firelappng cannot do that. I can do the forcing cone but you would have to ship it to my FFL dealer, and it's cheaper shipping if you take it to your dealer and let him ship to mine. PM me if you want to go this route.

If you want to send it back to Ruger, they should send you a prepaid shipping label for it and pick up shipping both ways. THIS would be the cheapest way, to send it to me would be the fastest way.


A brand new revolver cut that poorly is not a candidate for fire lapping. It needs to be checked to see IF it can be recut correctly, if not it needs a new barrel.

Rick

Exactly.

[tomme boy]

I think I am going to run it up to my dealer tomorrow and have him send it back. Every other cyl throat is tight.

I have not had any luck buying anything. Nothing seems to be made right. Every company in this disposable property society is really starting to piss me off. They have let their quality go down so far I can't believe some of this stuff is even safe anymore. Even some of the custom people are getting bad.

[tomme boy]

It also seems to be leading more on the bottom of the forcing cone. What does that mean? The bore is off center?

[newton]

Yep, always hate to mess with a new gun. Been there, done that, got the tshirt. Quickest, cheapest, and most simple way is fire lapping. It really took some nerve to do it, but I am glad I did. The gun now shoots just fine.

not saying you shouldn't sendvit back. That's an option. But be prepared for them to say "everything is in spec". They do not make guns specifically to shoot lead boolits. They make them to shoot factory ammo, which more often than not is jacketed.

[newton]

I think I am going to run it up to my dealer tomorrow and have him send it back. Every other cyl throat is tight.

I have not had any luck buying anything. Nothing seems to be made right. Every company in this disposable property society is really starting to piss me off. They have let their quality go down so far I can't believe some of this stuff is even safe anymore. Even some of the custom people are getting bad.

I hear you and and am on the same page. I have decided to just buy cheap and fix what is not good. Then you at least come out even and don't have high expectations dashed.

[newton]

It also seems to be leading more on the bottom of the forcing cone. What does that mean? The bore is off center?

Believe it or not I had leading on one area more than the other. After fire lapping it was all good. I'm not sure what causes that, but be assured that it's doubtful Ruger sent something out that was not fit right like this. Bore off center would be a big deal that I can't see them missing. Hang in there, everything will be fine. Don't think the gun is a piece of junk. It will soon run good for you and all this will be a thing of the past.

[cbrick]

Largely because people accept that kind of work. Not me, I'd be polite with Ruger but they would hear about it and they would get it back. It's a shame for sure, right now there is another thread in this forum about how good Ruger's are.

The worst forcing cone I've ever seen on a new revolver was an FA. I ordered it through my smith cause I get a great price but also because he and the owner of FA are friends. The day it came in I went over to pick it up, I took it out of the box and looked it over, had the cylinder out for about 2 seconds, put it back together and into the box. My smith called FA and talked with the owner and he said to ship it back collect addressed to the owner, not the receiving dept. Took a week and half and it came back with a new barrel.

Nobody walks on water, not FA, not Ruger. They should make it right and my money is that they will.

Rick

[12DMAX]

Have a blackhawk, same deal. Ruger had it back too me in 3 weeks, barrel straightened, forcing cone cut and action timed. Had to fight em a little on shipping but they picked up the tab.

[cbrick]

It also seems to be leading more on the bottom of the forcing cone. What does that mean? The bore is off center?

Can't tell from the picture, only one rifling shows and that is on the bottom sooo . . . But then you said the picture isn't your gun.

That rifling would strip jacket material also, not just lead. It does need to go back, don't try to firelap it and void the warranty. Make it right, I know it's a PITA right now but once it's correct you'll be glad for many years that you did it right.

Rick

[dubber123]

I think I am going to run it up to my dealer tomorrow and have him send it back. Every other cyl throat is tight.

I have not had any luck buying anything. Nothing seems to be made right. Every company in this disposable property society is really starting to piss me off. They have let their quality go down so far I can't believe some of this stuff is even safe anymore. Even some of the custom people are getting bad.

Sending it back is worth a shot. I have just not had the best of luck getting much for satisfaction from manufacturers. I wouldn't buy a Ruger for years because I got 3 lemons in a row, and one came back from repair worse than it went in. That said, I bought one recently, and it was as close to perfect as I've ever seen a Ruger, just excellent. All of them make junk, I had to have an F/A cylinder reamed by Doug to match the oversized barrel. It shoots awesome now, but why did this have to be done? Sorry man, I hope they make it right.

[tomme boy]

Just got off the phone with Ruger. They are sending UPS tomorrow with a shipping label to send it back. Now the wait. She could not say how long it will be.

[cbrick]

A PITA for sure but after it's all said and done you'll be mighty thankful for taking the time to do it correctly, will have been well worth it.

Rick

[Love Life]

Smart move giving the manufacturer the opportunity to fix it. I have a revolver (S&W) that has always leaded a bit at the forcing cone, but the leading never seems to progress beyond a certain point and with my shooting I can't really tell the difference between it's accuracy and another of the same model with same barrel length.

[tomme boy]

Well this thing shoots really well for me not ever shooting a revolver before. I was able to put 6 into an inch at 20 yards yesterday with the LEE 140gr SWC with 4 gr of Bullseye in a 38 case. Tried the LEE 104gr SWC but the best I could do with that one was about 1 1/4" at 20 yards.

I really noticed that I had to keep that front sight centered in the rear sight. I never really noticed this before in my other pistols I have had. This one has a little gap on either side when sighting it. Maybe my eyes were just a little better yesterday. My sugars for my diabetes have been running really good lately. I know when they are high my vision gets fuzzy. I could actually see the front sight and the dot on the target yesterday. Have not been able to do that for a LONG time.

I just ordered a new 360477 5 cavity from Al at NOE. I hope that will be a good one to play with.

[Love Life]

My standard load for anything from the 125gr RNFP to 178 gr 358429 is 5 gr of Unique. Works wonderfully.

[Bucking the Tiger]

I had a Ruger Super Blackhawk that did the same thing. A good gunsmith can chamfer (smooth out) the forcing cone and this will eliminate leading in the cone and usually improves accuracy. Not sure that the factory will do this, but it is worth the effort.
Ruger makes a good gun and are a great value, but with a little custom work can be really top notch.

[DougGuy]

tomme boy when you get it back, if it isn't to your satisfaction, or it still has tight throats I will be glad to help out. Merry Christmas!

[robertbank]

If everyone who bought a GP-100 sent their guns back to Ruger for leading in the first 1/16th inch of the barrel or for tight cylinders the shipping companies would have to put on extra staff. I did have my cylinders reamed out locally. Three of them would not allow a .356 bullet pass through them. The others stopped a .357 bullet. I still have not anything about the leading problem. I have a 686 no dash Smith that leads in the same area. I am going to switch to powder coated bullets anyway so hopefully the leading will come to an end.

Rugers are great revolvers but as my friend Al says they tend to be kit guns. I intend to get the forcing cone cut to 11 degrees on both the GP-100 and 686 and have the rifling cleaned up on the Ruger.

Take Care

Bob
ps To the OP you are not having bad luck but you do have to lower your expectations when you buy off the rack these days.

[tomme boy]

PC would not help this to stop leading. It is shaving the lead off the bullet. When I shot some 357 mags jacketed in it, it spit back at me. So it is shaving whatever goes through it.

I am not going to lower my expectations anymore. I am not going to let any more of this BS get by me. 99% of the people shoot their guns about 1 time a year and they only shoot a couple of rounds when they do. I use my guns almost every day. It is not the first gun I have sent back. And not the last. I have a Savage bolt action that is piercing primers that has to go back because of the pin hole is too big allowing the primer to flow back into the hole. I had a STI Trojan that I had to send back to them 4 times. I finally told them to refund my money. My last 1911 was a Citadel. It was having timing issues and they re fit a new barrel and throated it for cast bullets, polished up the trigger and did a trigger job and sent back 4 magazines with it. It was my most accurate 1911 I ever had.

[robertbank]

Well you are going to die a frustrated man and likely unhappy too. Good luck with your gun I am sure Ruger will deal with it. Let us know how you make out with the tight cylinders.

Take Care

Bob

[Char-Gar]

Tomme Boy....You are correct in your diagnose of the source of your leading. A forcing cone like that won't be cured by handloading. The fix is to cut or have recut the forcing cone of your barrel, or have the factory replace the barrel with one that has a good smooth forcing cone.

Thus far, I have had good luck with Rugers having good smooth forcing cones, but I have never owned a double action Ruger. Ruger screwed the pooch on your barrel.

I have had some good experience with Ruger repair service and I have had some bad experience with them as well. I just hope your experience will be a good one. Ruger tends not to listen to customer complaints, but stick some gauges on and in the firearm and if everything is within factory spec then they send it back. They don't run a custom gunsmith operation so they won't modify your revolver to suit your wishes. They will replace defective out of spec parts with new one. They replaced two barrels for me that had heat scale on the inside from the heat used to attach the front sights. However, I have never known them to correct cylinder charge hole throats.

Ruger sets their revolvers up for jacketed bullets and don't seem to be bothered by the fact they don't do well with cast bullets. That is not on their performance radar screen. A jacketed bullet doesn't mind a tight charge hole throat and it does not lead either.

The good news is the handgun's problems can be fixed pretty easy if Ruger won't do it, but you are correct that they should fix it, but they may not. The fact that you are not happy with cast bullet performance in one of their revolvers does not mean jack to them.

[DR Owl Creek]

Tomme,

Sorry to hear about the problem with your new gun. I agree with the others who said to send your gun back to Ruger for repair. While reaming the forcing cone is an easy repair to do yourself, assuming you have the right equipment, I would also have Ruger check to make sure the barrel and cylinder are bored and aligned properly. You can easily ream the forcing cone in a few minutes even if you have two left hands, and they are all thumbs. If the barrel and cylinder aren't aligned properly, it's a much more difficult fix, even for a more expert gunsmith.

I've never had a Ruger double action revolver, so I don't know much about them. While most .38/.45 caliber revolvers have an 11 degree angle on the forcing cone, Ruger apparently doesn't use an 11 degree angle on their .38/.357 DA revolvers. I looked at Brownells' gunsmithing info and it indicates Ruger uses a 5 degree angle on their .38/.357 DA revolvers. They have a 5 degree chamfer cutter for use on current Ruger revolvers, and if you want to set back a Ruger barrel, or just to duplicate the original angle on another barrel, you must use that one. It also says you can't use an 18 degree or 11 degree cutter on a 5 degree throat without exceeding maximum throat diameter, or making a compound angle. See their web site for more specific details.

If Ruger doesn't repair your gun to your satisfaction, then you can always try doing it yourself. Brownells has the "complete .38/.45 chamfering tool kits", item #080-481-000AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/barrel-tools/chamfering-tools/complete-38-45-kit-sku080481000-26157-2197.aspx?sku=080481000 . Brownells also has what they call their "basic" kit that's a good bit cheaper, but it only comes with one size cutter, so you must specify what size cutter you need (e.g. 5 degree or 11 degree, etc.), item #080-479-451AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/barrel-tools/chamfering-tools/11-38-45-caliber-sku080479451-514-2148.aspx?sku=080479451 .

Good luck,

Dave

[tomme boy]

If they don't fix it, how would one go about just lapping the cone? Would one be able to use a brass lap and some valve lapping compound to just smooth it up? Maybe something from Buckshot to make me? I think I am going to send him a PM and ask.

[cbrick]

If they don't fix it, how would one go about just lapping the cone? Would one be able to use a brass lap and some valve lapping compound to just smooth it up? Maybe something from Buckshot to make me? I think I am going to send him a PM and ask.

No, get the right tool to do the job right, see below.


If Ruger doesn't repair your gun to your satisfaction, then you can always try doing it yourself. Brownells has the "complete .38/.45 chamfering tool kits", item #080-481-000AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/barrel-tools/chamfering-tools/complete-38-45-kit-sku080481000-26157-2197.aspx?sku=080481000 . Brownells also has what they call their "basic" kit that's a good bit cheaper, but it only comes with one size cutter, so you must specify what size cutter you need (e.g. 5 degree or 11 degree, etc.), item #080-479-451AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/barrel-tools/chamfering-tools/11-38-45-caliber-sku080479451-514-2148.aspx?sku=080479451 .

Good luck, Dave

[tomme boy]

Well UPS picked it up this afternoon. We will just have to wait and see what they do or not do?

[cbrick]

I'll bet they take care of it, why else would they be so willing to get it back if they didn't think there was a problem.

Rick

[Tar Heel]

tomme boy when you get it back, if it isn't to your satisfaction, or it still has tight throats I will be glad to help out. Merry Christmas!

^^^^^^^^^^^^ He does great work ^^^^^^^^^^

[tomme boy]

Got an email that it is on its way back yesterday. Should have it tomorrow. We will see what they did.

[robertbank]

I just had five of my revolvers forcing cones cut to 11 degrees. All but the Uberti leaded in the first sixtieth of an inch and or around the forcing cone. Weather here has been terrible but eases up in a day or two so the plan is to take the GP=100 and 686 out and run a hundred rounds through each to see if doing the cones clears the problem up. I suspect it will.

I am about to venture into powder coating. This type of coating will end the lead fouling issues something I am looking forward to.

Take Care

Bob

[youngmman]

Recut the cone yourself. Tool isn't too expensive from Brownell's. It's easy. Two different cutters available (you only need one). then you will have the tool to dress up your other guns. I had a .22 that spit lead. Now it behaves.
I have one of the Brownell's kits for truing up the forcing cones, It includes cutters and lapping tools for any revolver. After cautiously dressing up the forcing cones on all my Smiths then lapping them with grinding compound they all worked perfectly with no leading and better accuracy.

Some guns will have rifling that is shallow enough so there is a little "skidding" until the rifling catches the bullet. This will leave some lead but shouldn't result in buildup.

Honestly, from many comments on this site it seems like Ruger pays little attention to quality control anymore.

[robertbank]

Honestly, from many comments on this site it seems like Ruger pays little attention to quality control anymore.

Anymore? Ruger revolvers are kit guns and always have been. My Smith just cut all my revolvers to 11 degrees for shooting lead. He left the cones unpolished. Apparently Brownells recommends they be left a bit rough to prevent gas cutting. Who knows? We want our guns to be priced under $500 and have the quality of a $1,000 gun. I am surprised Ruger can keep their prices where they are with inflation being what it is.

Take Care

Bob

[youngmman]

Anymore? Ruger revolvers are kit guns and always have been. My Smith just cut all my revolvers to 11 degrees for shooting lead. He left the cones unpolished. Apparently Brownells recommends they be left a bit rough to prevent gas cutting. Who knows? We want our guns to be priced under $500 and have the quality of a $1,000 gun. I am surprised Ruger can keep their prices where they are with inflation being what it is.

Take Care

Bob

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44mag I took in lew of pay when I worked at a sporting goods store in 1964, or so, as a high school student. I wouldn't trade it for anything. The fit and finish are outstanding as are the single six my father bought a few years earlier.

I remember when Bill Ruger made the statement that for the company to make money they would have to cut out the hand work. Guess they did.

[robertbank]

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44mag I took in lew of pay when I worked at a sporting goods store in 1964, or so, as a high school student. I wouldn't trade it for anything. The fit and finish are outstanding as are the single six my father bought a few years earlier.

I remember when Bill Ruger made the statement that for the company to make money they would have to cut out the hand work. Guess they did.

Yup about 50 years ago.

Bob

[tomme boy]

Well it finally showed up. I don't know if I should be pissed off or not. It looks way too deep and rough to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0051_zps7dd5fe62.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0051_zps7dd5fe62.jpg.html)

[tomme boy]

Well, here is 20 rounds of 360477's under 5 gr unique. Not happy at all. This is worse than before I sent it to them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0052_zps7b632c89.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0052_zps7b632c89.jpg.html)

[dubber123]

Well, here is 20 rounds of 360477's under 5 gr unique. Not happy at all. This is worse than before I sent it to them.

I'm guessing there was supposed to be a pic of a leaded up forcing cone? Sorry they didn't come through for you. I understand why most suggested sending it back, but now you see why I try and fix my own stuff most of the time. I have sent back several firearms and had them made worse by the factory that screwed them up in the first place..

[robertbank]

Looks like they used a chisel! I had mine done by my 'smith and he did a great job on mine. I hate to say this but why not phone them and let them know politely how you feel. Either that or bight the bullet and see if a local 'smith can clean it up.

Take Care

Bob

[cbrick]

I agree with Bob, a phone call is in order. I would not be happy with that and with as much diplomacy as I could muster I'd let them know this is just not right.

Rick

[tomme boy]

Called them. Told them they need to stop hiring 3rd graders to do their gunsmithing. The girl actually put that in the work order to move it up to the supervisors as it is a return on their work. Told them I either want a new barrel or a new gun and will not except anything less than it done right. Also told them that I want it back by next Friday or I am not even sending it in. She has UPS stopping to pick it up tomorrow.

Folks, this is not only Ruger. I seem to have the worst luck out of every single person I know. I have had junk from Rem, Savage, Baikal, Stevens, Mossberg, Marlin, H&R. This is just in the last 7-8 years.

[robertbank]

Well it is no different across the street in S&W land. We had a shipment of 686's come north that looked like they had been finished by a drunk with a chisel. I don't believe the work done on this fellows forcing cone is something Ruger will condone but it happens and condone or not it reflects badly on the company.

I am sure Ruger will make it right.

Take Care

Bob
ps tommeboy just a word of advice. Your objective is to get your gun fixed. I would refrain from doing anything to prevent that from happening. Ruger doesn't hire 3rd graders and you know that. Call them raving idiots AFTER you get your gun fixed if you want to. Before doesn't get you a new gun....just a sorta fixed gun.

[jrayborn]

I have not had good results in the forcing cone department when using Unique. Rough or not. I even cut and polished mine. I have had much better luck with 2400 or Power Pistol.

[huntrick64]

It looks to me that the first half of the re-cut forcing cone is smooth and the last 1/2 has rings in it. I would think that if a rough forcing cone was causing that lead buildup it would be at the rough area and not in the first half. Are you sure you don't have a dimensional issue with the cylinder throats or just using a boolit that is too small. I can make my non-leading Rugers do what yours is doing by shooting a boolit that is .001 - .002 smaller than the throats. I figured that it was gas blow-by that softened the outermost of the boolit then it got smeared on the forcing cone. Back to your forcing cone problem though, I would have just bought the tool and cut 11 degrees into that first cone. Now it is probably too deep to cut 11 degrees.

Just my 2 cents and I wish you luck. My experience with Ruger service has been nothing but tops, even recently.

[DougGuy]

Wow that's terrible looking work. I think this is more than just the forcing cone, tomme boy when you send it back in, will you ask them to look at the cylinder too? I remember us discussing that it has two tight throats and I had asked if the fired brass from the chambers that aren't tight would chamber in the ones that are tight, meaning the discrepancy is just the cylinder throats and not the whole chamber, the throats are an easy fix. The chamber, not so much.

I would let them get the forcing cone right first, and then we can address the throats once it is known they aren't getting the gun back again.

As a last resort, if they send it back again and it is not what you had hoped for, I do have a brand new 5° cutter and lap that would have it slicker n snot.

[tomme boy]

They replaced the cylinder. I did not measure them. But I took a 0.358" sized bullet and it had to be pushed hard into each one. It will let you push it through, but with force. I used a new bullet for this test on each throat and they all felt the same way. I measured the cylinder gap and I did not have an SAE feeler gauge. I had a metric. Anyway, it was a very tight 0.22 mm which comes out as 0.008"

I don't have a clue with these revolvers. I also took one of the sized 360477 bullets and put it into the forcing cone to just check how far it would slide in. The base of the bullet was the only thing sticking out of the rear of the barrel. So I took a unsized bullet that measures 0.361" and it wiggled in the cone until it reached the rifling. I guess I should have did an impact slug of the cone to see what it really is but it is all boxed back up. Not sure what it would tell me anyway.

So if I am thinking of the cone as the throat of a rifle. By them lengthening it almost two times longer than what it was originally, it acts like I just shot 30K rounds through the gun by what they did. Am I right on how I am thinking of this? It can't be too good for accuracy. That bullet is completely unsupported until it hits the rifling.

[huntrick64]

Tomme,

Go to this link. Some of the best collection of data available for FREE! Scroll down to the "leading" section and check out what they say. These guys are usually "spot on". I think there is a location on the link (or prior to) that allows you to save a PDF of the guide. If you haven't seen their sight yet, the whole thing is awesome. I think a couple of their members are also frequent flyers here on castboolits.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[youngmman]

Just another comment related to lapping the forcing cone. When I did mine, several revolvers, I also discovered that the breach face of the barrel was not true (square with the bore). This also affected accuracy. FYI the worst was a performance center 629 I bought about 10 years ago. It looked like they took a wood rasp to the end of the barrel and it even had burrs. I did the lapping and trued the barrel and it is one of the most accurate guns I have. The barrel/cylinder gap increased a couple of thousands (eliminating the difference between one side of the barrel vs. the other regarding the gap) but accuracy was improved.

I was told if the barrel isn't square it will cause a variance in pressure at the base of the bullet as it enters the forcing cone and it will affect accuracy since the pressure variance causes a canting of the bullet.

Brownell's makes a nice kit for truing the barrel.

[tomme boy]

Right now the leading is secondary. The main thing is what happened to the length of the forcing cone.

CBrick is the owner of the lasc web site. He has commented above.

[DR Owl Creek]

FWIW:

A couple of years or so ago, a buddy of mine bought a Single Six for his wife, and had a problem with the barrel. He sent it back to Ruger twice for repairs, but it still wasn't fixed to his satisfaction. On the third trip back, they replaced the barrel, and everything seems to be fine now.

It didn't cost him anything, except the time and the aggravation. I think you would be doing everyone involved a service by holding Ruger's feet to the fire, and making them fix it properly. If more people would demand to get what they paid for, these companies would soon realize it's far cheaper and easier to do the job right in the first place, and not try to pass off substandard products and services.

Dave

[tomme boy]

DR. that is the problem. Most don't know what things should be. They are perfectly happy with a pistol that will shoot a 4-5" groups at 25 yards. 30 years ago it a pistol did that it was the biggest piece of **** there was. I hate this disposable products thinking everyone has nowadays. All it does is make everything just marginal. Bad thing is, I dought they actually have a gunsmith. More than likely all they have are parts changers. A real GS would have never turned this loose.

[44man]

Boolit is still hitting the cone way before the rifling by where the lead is. even if rough, the boolit should be closer to the rifling. You are slumping the boolit between the gap and rifling, trying to fill the cone. That boolit is WAY over groove before reaching the bore. Darn, it looks like a .44 was trying to go through.
Yeah, shoot softer to obturate, see what you get. Shoot faster powders. Why don't you HARDEN the stinking boolit? Go to a slow powder?
I am a hard *** but anyone can see your boolit is larger then barrel size at the cone.

[newton]

FWIW:

A couple of years or so ago, a buddy of mine bought a Single Six for his wife, and had a problem with the barrel. He sent it back to Ruger twice for repairs, but it still wasn't fixed to his satisfaction. On the third trip back, they replaced the barrel, and everything seems to be fine now.

It didn't cost him anything, except the time and the aggravation. I think you would be doing everyone involved a service by holding Ruger's feet to the fire, and making them fix it properly. If more people would demand to get what they paid for, these companies would soon realize it's far cheaper and easier to do the job right in the first place, and not try to pass off substandard products and services.

Dave

I think its good to hold their feet also, but you have to agree that its not going to change the company as a whole. If every single person did it, then all it would do is send prices up. Sure, you will get better guns(they will still find ways to cut corners), but its going to cost more.

They do things to run mid field in terms of sales. That's the way most companies do things. They throw out a product, see who likes it. It shoots, and shoots fine for most people. Does not mean that its the best.

I'm not downing returning the gun at all. That's not the point. The point is this is something we all will have to deal with. Really, its something we should expect. I'm glad Ruger is going to stand behind it at least. It would be worse if they would say that it shoots factory ammo, and it does it to their "standards", so they wont do anything for you.

I think we have just come to the point in society where if you want true quality service you have to go to people that have impeccable track records. Or, just plan to spend the extra time and effort when buying from those with the not so great track records. Too bad things are not like they used to be. Its every American for himself nowdays.

[robertbank]

44man not disagreeing with your assessment but the distance is similar to my GP-100. I just had my forcing cone cut to 11 degrees to solve the leading problem. It pretty much has. I shoot air cooled WW in my GP-100 sized .358. Cutting the cone to 11 degrees widened the cone at the front which has eliminated the leading around the outside of the cone and the new angle has eliminated the leading in the first sixteenth of an inch of rifling. In mine it was a case of the bullet shedding material when it hit the cone then the bullet hit the squared off rifling stripping more lead off. Now the rifling at entry is angled and the ;eading issue has disappeared.

I had my 686 done at the same time. The distance to the rifling from the front of the cone to the rifling is shorter than that on the Ruger. The Smith didn't lead up around the forcing cone but did on the rifling like the Ruger. I have not been out to test the Smith yet. Maybe this week-end if the weather holds.

Seems it is cheaper to run service centers than it is to tighten quality control on the production line.

Take Care

Bob

[tomme boy]

These Rugers use a 5* cone. Why did you go to an 11*?

[ColColt]

Not mine but it looks about the same.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/odessastraight/_DEF3794_zps098a3622.jpg

That was my Ruger GP I posted about a year or so back. I had a gunsmith to clean up the throat and fired a lot of jacketed bullets in it. It did help. Looking back, I should have just sent it back to Ruger. No throat should look like that.

[44man]

44man not disagreeing with your assessment but the distance is similar to my GP-100. I just had my forcing cone cut to 11 degrees to solve the leading problem. It pretty much has. I shoot air cooled WW in my GP-100 sized .358. Cutting the cone to 11 degrees widened the cone at the front which has eliminated the leading around the outside of the cone and the new angle has eliminated the leading in the first sixteenth of an inch of rifling. In mine it was a case of the bullet shedding material when it hit the cone then the bullet hit the squared off rifling stripping more lead off. Now the rifling at entry is angled and the ;eading issue has disappeared.

I had my 686 done at the same time. The distance to the rifling from the front of the cone to the rifling is shorter than that on the Ruger. The Smith didn't lead up around the forcing cone but did on the rifling like the Ruger. I have not been out to test the Smith yet. Maybe this week-end if the weather holds.

Seems it is cheaper to run service centers than it is to tighten quality control on the production line.

Take Care

Bob
My .44 is cut to 11* also. The picture shows a good angle to the cone but the boolit is still hitting way before it should. SLUMP??? Hard to imagine a boolit at groove or .002" over hitting a spot that has to be .020" to .030" over groove. I would make a lap at the right angle and polish the marks out and then I would STOP slump. It is not the cone, it is the boolit.

[44man]

These Rugers use a 5* cone. Why did you go to an 11*?
11* gives a better entry without a bash to the boolit. It does work as long as the mouth of the cone is not enlarged too much. I do not like a Taylor throat as the boolit has too much velocity when the rifling is encountered.

[tomme boy]

I dought the bullet is slumping. They are tested at 21 for the hardness.

[44man]

I dought the bullet is slumping. They are tested at 21 for the hardness.
Well, they should be OK. How is cylinder alignment?

[tomme boy]

That I can not say. UPS came by yesterday and picked it up. The lady on the phone at Ruger said I will have it back by Friday next week.

[tomme boy]

Well Ruger just called me, they told me after they have examined the firearm, they are going to replace it. The lady asked me if I was ok with a new Match Champion to replace it! I told heck yes that would be OK. So now the wait to get it.

[jmort]

Serendipity

[robertbank]

All well that ends well. Ruger appears to have made it right. Have your local 'smith check the cylinder throats (typically to small in diameter) and ensure the forcing cone is cut to 11 degrees. If not get it done, Makes a world of difference if you are going to shoot lead.
My GP-100 is like a new gun after doing the forcing cone.

Take Care

Bob

[cbrick]

Well Ruger just called me, they told me after they have examined the firearm, they are going to replace it. The lady asked me if I was ok with a new Match Champion to replace it! I told heck yes that would be OK. So now the wait to get it.

:mrgreen: Life is good huh? Did she happen to say if this new revolver is in stock? If it is it shouldn't take long and like I said earlier, a real PITA to go through this but once it's over you'll be very happy for many years to come that you took the time to do it right.

Rick

[tomme boy]

Yes they had both models. I got to pick the one I wanted. I told them I wanted the adjustable sight one. They said it should ship today or tomorrow. Now to find out if my dealer is going to charge me to transfer it over. It is the same place I bought it from they are going to ship it to. I know the owner, but he is not in today. The guys there did not know. Have to call tomorrow to talk to him when he is in the shop.

[robertbank]

The cutting of the forcing cone to 11 degrees cured the leading at the forcing cone completely on my GP-100 and my No Dash 686. Too, no more leading in the first 1/16th of an inch of rifling.

To the OP you might find it easier to just have the forcing cone cut by a local 'smith.

Take Care

Bob

[DR Owl Creek]

Well Ruger just called me, they told me after they have examined the firearm, they are going to replace it. The lady asked me if I was ok with a new Match Champion to replace it! I told heck yes that would be OK. So now the wait to get it.


SWEET !!!

Dave

[44man]

I need my barrel set back after near 80,000 heavy loads with the sandblasting on the cone edges. But my trigger is 1-1/2# and a home made transfer bar to allow it. I might buy the tools to do it myself because Ruger would remove all I did.
But Ruger is a great company and will help you. They do not understand to leave my work alone, a lawyer thing. They would replace my transfer bar, hammer, trigger spring and even the over power Wolfe hammer spring. Not going to happen.

[robertbank]

I need my barrel set back after near 80,000 heavy loads with the sandblasting on the cone edges. But my trigger is 1-1/2# and a home made transfer bar to allow it. I might buy the tools to do it myself because Ruger would remove all I did.
But Ruger is a great company and will help you. They do not understand to leave my work alone, a lawyer thing. They would replace my transfer bar, hammer, trigger spring and even the over power Wolfe hammer spring. Not going to happen.

Why not take out your parts and send in the gun. When it comes back, put yours back in.

Take Care

Bob

[44man]

Why not take out your parts and send in the gun. When it comes back, put yours back in.

Take Care


Bob
They want to test fire and proof test. I don't think they want an empty gun.

[robertbank]

They want to test fire and proof test. I don't think they want an empty gun.

Well before they can shoot it they will have to replace all your parts. They are going to do that anyway so give them a heads start.

Take care

Bob

[tomme boy]

Here it is. Just going to shoot it. Will work around anything if it shows up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0058_zpsf132ab1b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0058_zpsf132ab1b.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0056_zps8cde9409.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0056_zps8cde9409.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0055_zps917621a1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0055_zps917621a1.jpg.html)

[cbrick]

Purdy. Almost to purdy to shoot. Well, almost. That's good looking lumber on there.

Rick

[robertbank]

Very nice, Ruger can do it, just wish they always would.

Do cut the cone to 11 degrees if you intend to shoot lead in it. The result is amazing.

Take Care

Bob

[tomme boy]

out shooting right now. I have almost 150 rounds through it and there is no lighting at all

[cbrick]

out shooting right now. I have almost 150 rounds through it and there is no lighting at all

Hhmmm . . . Lighting? I think spell checker got ya and you really mean leading. :mrgreen: Life is good huh? I told ya that if you would take the time to do it right you would be a happy camper. So how is the accuracy now with no lighting?

Rick

[tomme boy]

Just seen that. Oh well. Dang phones.

I just got back and I ran a brush through the barrel 5 times and this is what it looks like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0060_zpsda6da066.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0060_zpsda6da066.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/IMG_0059_zpsea95fec0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/IMG_0059_zpsea95fec0.jpg.html)

200 rnds of 357 with a NOE 360477 with 4.5 and 5.0 gr of Unique. Played with the crimp and it does not like a crimp at all. And it likes the 5.0 gr charge. Going to load some more with 5.2 and 5.5 grs to see if it like a little warmer load. I did not save the targets. The groups were about 2.5-3" at 20 yds. This is pretty good for me. I am just learning the revolver. I am sure that someone else could do better. The sun was going in and out as I was there. It was giving me fits with the sight picture.

The double action on this thing is scary smooth. It is going to take a little getting used to.

[cbrick]

127973

[tomme boy]

Everyone at the Ruger forum is saying this is the first one they have heard of anyone having the new adjustable sight model.

So that means the pistol is worth twice as much right????:kidding:

[cbrick]

Shoots well! Zero leading! Priceless! :drinks:

Rick

[huntrick64]

Glad it worked out. I have had a similar experience with Ruger's excellent service. The difference was that in my case the gun was built in the late 1950's and probably had many owners before we got it. They still fixed something that should have been done right at the factory over 50 years ago!! Even 50 years ago, a few slipped though that had problems.

[DR Owl Creek]

Don't yah just love stories with Happy Endings?

Dave

[tomme boy]

Its about time. Up until just the last month, I have never had things to go my way. First out of the blue Brassmagnet sends me a lubesizer and dies. And now this. Maybe I will end up getting my SS approved next. I dought that one.

[tazman]

How does the new revolver handle/feel as opposed to the GP100 you had before?

[tomme boy]

Feels good in the hand. The rubber grip felt nice, but it was skinny. It is more full in your lower hand. The surface roughness is nice. Not too sharp and not to slick.

[DougGuy]

Dang right! You going to firelap it any? I'd be interested in seeing if using fine compound polished what few toolmarks there are there, shrunk groups any. It certainly would not hurt it.

Glad you hung in there and got a NICE revolver in the long run!

[tomme boy]

Not going to touch it. It is working fine right now.

[tazman]

wise man.^^^^^

[cbrick]

Not going to touch it. It is working fine right now.


wise man.^^^^^

Precisely!

From what you have described of the new revolver were it mine I wouldn't change a thing either. If you ever decide to shoot bench rest matches with it consider some tweaking but until then the old adage . . . "If it ain't broke don't fix it" applies perfectly.

Rick

[c1skout]

Glad they fixed you up. I bought my early production GP100 used about 2 years ago. After seeing your pictures I looked at my forcing cone through a magnifier and was glad to see it is nice and smooth. Mine has a nice smooth double action pull too.... but I don't know if anyone ever had their fingers in there or it just wore in nicely.

[tomme boy]

I have the spring kit and the red front sight I was going to put on the old one. Now I don't need either. I might just put them in the for sale section.