Will this harm a barrel

[oldsagerat]

I am hoping that you are all barrel savvy. I have a
new Ruger 77/357. I have 4,500 rounds of 38 Special
loaded with cast 158 gr boolits. Will firing a lot of
them in this rifle in any way harm the chamber. I am
thinking of the 1/10 of inch difference in 357 Mag brass
and 38 Special brass. Will there be any damage to
that area? Gas cutting or other effects?

If there is, I will just sell the 38 Special and use just
357 Magnum.

[leftiye]

It will most probly only produce a circle of powder/lube fouling in the chamber where the shorter .38s end up. This can be cleaned, and could cause trouble with chambering and pressures with full length .357 loads. Other than that, in revolvers the accuracy is said to not suffer from using .38s in a .357 chamber. I'd be curious as to if this holds true in a rifle.

[dtknowles]

It will most probly only produce a circle of powder/lube fouling in the chamber where the shorter .38s end up. This can be cleaned, and could cause trouble with chambering and pressures with full length .357 loads. Other than that, in revolvers the accuracy is said to not suffer from using .38s in a .357 chamber. I'd be curious as to if this holds true in a rifle.

I don't have any personal experience to relate as I always load my ammo in .357 cases and fire very few .38 specials but I have read that if you do not clean the crud ring out frequently it can be a catalyst for corrosion that can lead to problems with extraction of .357 cases.

Tim

[Multigunner]

When the Boers were stuck with thousands of 7X53 cartridge cases and had to reload these for use in 7X57 chambered rifles they had some difficulties with bullets bumping up into the 4mm unsupported section at the neck.
They solved this by coating the bullets above the neck with a thick incompressible grease.

You might try something of the sort when using .38 cases in a 357 chamber. Though extra care would be necessary to avoid getting the lube on the chamber walls while loading, and swabbing the chamber with mineral spirits after each few rounds would be a good idea.

Lead mixed with fouling can set up into a hard agregate to obstruct the neck. I use a scraper made from brass tubing to clear away this sort of deposit in old rifle chambers.
Make a scraper of this sort and clean out any deposits on a regular basis and future chambering of .357 rounds should not become a problem.

[Petrol & Powder]

If you clean that rifle occasionally like one should, I don't foresee a problem. If left unchecked there could be an issue loading .357 mag brass in a dirty chamber but I think the issue is blown way out of proportion. As the bullet enters the throat a good portion of the bullet is still in the casing. It's not as if you have freebore that is longer than the driving bands on the bullet.
I shoot the majority of my 38 Special cartridges in 38 Special chambers but I have a few .357 magnums that I shoot as well. I've shot 38 Special brass out of magnum chambers for years and NEVER had an issue when switching back to magnum length brass, of course I also clean my guns after shooting them.
Now, will that extra freebore lead to erosion? Maybe, maybe not...but at 38 Special pressures it would take a long time before that potential erosion manifested itself even if it was an issue.
I'd use your existing 38 Special cartridges, clean the rifle properly and carry on. You'll wear out something else long before that long chamber becomes a problem, assuming that it ever becomes a problem.

[georgerkahn]

For what it's worth, I have a Marlin Model 1894 .357 Magnum Carbine S/n 21,049,xxx and similarly had a surplus of .38 S&W Specials. Hey, I shoot .38s all the time in my .357 revolvers, so why not? After the 2nd shot, my Marlin needed surgery -- costly to me surgery -- at local gunsmith's. It gave new definition to jammed action. I've since acquired another, which is labeled on barrel, ".357/.38 S&W Spec." so both calibers work in this one. BUT, I sure got an education -- not a free lesson, either -- by loading the .38s in the older model. Maybe -- hopefully -- you'll be lucky. But, I thought I'd share my experience with you.
BEST!
georgerkahn

[Petrol & Powder]

".357/.38 S&W Spec." so both calibers work in this one. ??

Can you elaborate on that?

[rockshooter]

I have a 77/357 and have used both .38spc and .357 Mag in it. The only issue you might run into is feed, especially if you are using SWC-shapes. As far as the crud in the chamber- I would just clean the chamber every box or so. I find that an m-14 chamber brush, the kind with the ratchet, works well.
When you run out of the .38s, I have found that the NOE 358477 GC works very well with boith H110 and 2400.
Loren

[bob208]

I have fired thousands of .38 in .357 chambers. never had a problem in rifle or pistol

[altheating]

No problems in my 77/357 when shooting 38's. Clean the crud ring every 100 rounds or so. Wad cutters will most likely have to be fed one at a time, (at least in mine). I get the best accuracy with the NOE 360-180 boolit. Shooting the light wad cutters is ok, but hitting a 150 or 200 yard gong with the heavy Boolit is soooo much better!

[bobthenailer]

Just a though in a revolver the build up is in 6 chambers , in a rifle the build up is in one chamber !
IF you do keep a eye on the build up and be sure to clean before shooting loads in 357 cases.

I personaly use the full length case that the firearm is chambered for !

[Dan Cash]

When the Boers were stuck with thousands of 7X53 cartridge cases and had to reload these for use in 7X57 chambered rifles they had some difficulties with bullets bumping up into the 4mm unsupported section at the neck.
They solved this by coating the bullets above the neck with a thick incompressible grease.

...

What, pray tell, is a 7x53 cartridge?

[N4AUD]

When I was a police officer and we carried S&W 686's, we qualified with .38 Special ammo. We fired hundreds upon hundreds of rounds over the years with no problems.

[Multigunner]

What, pray tell, is a 7x53 cartridge?
No one is quite certain of how the 7X53 cartridge case came about, but when the Boers were desperate for 7mm Mauser ammunition a large quantity of 7X53mm ammunition was palmed off on them.
The Boers called it the "Kortnek" for short neck cartridge.
It may have been a early incarnation of the 7mm Mauser based on the 7.65X53 Belgian Mauser case, the later 7X57 superceeding it, or unscruplous arms dealers may have made these from 7.65X53 cases they had on hand when the 57mm cases got hard to obtain.
The difference in case length , about .16",was a bit more than the difference between the .38 Special and the .357.

[oldsagerat]

Thanks to all of you for your input. If I didn't have 4,500 38 Special
cases I probably would not have asked the question. I am finding
no one wants to buy or trade for 38 Special. So I wiil load them,
shoot them, not pick up the brass, and clean the chamber. If I ever do see a problem I will post the info here. Thanks again.

[Petrol & Powder]

The "carbon ring" or "crud ring" or whatever, is way out of proportion. If you clean your gun occasionally it is a non-issue.

The 38 Special and .357 mag cartridges headspace on the rim. The forward section of the chamber where the bullet transitions into the throat (revolver) or directly into the bore (rifle or pistol) is basically a steep funnel. In contrast, rimless semi-auto cartridges headspace on the case mouth and the chambers for those rounds have a sharp, well defined shoulder at the front of the chamber. If you look at the drawings, or actual reamers, for 38 Special and .357 mag chambers, you will see that sloped transition at the forward end of the chamber. The .357" mag cartridge casing is .135" longer than the 38 Special casing and the .357 mag chamber is cut correspondingly longer. (Both 38 Spl. and .357 mag chambers are actually cut slightly longer than the maximum casing length to allow some tolerance for small casing deviations and dirty chambers but never enough to allow a .357 mag casing to fully seat in a 38 Spl. chamber). In any event that forward portion of the chamber lacks the sharp 90* shoulder that is present in a chamber cut for a straight walled rimless cartridge such as a 9mm Luger or 45 ACP.
The area between the front of the casing and the beginning of the rifling (or throat on a revolver) is far shorter than the length of the bullet. It is true that when shooting the shorter 38 Special casing in the longer .357 mag chamber there is some unsupported area in front of the casing mouth that could accumulate; unburned powder, carbon, bullet lube, etc. However, with some occasional cleaning that debris is easily removed. If any erosion takes places in that section of the chamber (and I doubt that it would be significant, if any) it would occur very slowly at 38 Special velocities with lead bullets.

Now, if you shot hundreds of 38 Special rounds in a .357 mag chamber without cleaning the gun and then attempted to chamber a .357 mag cartridge, you may have some difficultly getting that round to chamber. That difficulty would be due to a dirty chamber not a damaged chamber.

Clean your guns !

[w5pv]

I had a single shot 22 rifle that was given to me because it wouldn't chamber a long or long rifle.A good cleaning cured that.

[bob208]

it would be a waste to throw the .38s away. you can use the heavy loads in them as per skeeter skelton or .38-44 loading data. last time I checked .357 cases are rather expensive but then that always has been the case. which is why I use the heavy .38 loads.

[Petrol & Powder]

I had a single shot 22 rifle that was given to me because it wouldn't chamber a long or long rifle.A good cleaning cured that.

Funny how that works :shock:

[cowboybart]

Depending on how tight your chamber specs are will determine how often you will have to clean. After just 100 rds of 45 Colt in a Freedom Arms 454 cylinder, I couldn't chamber a 454 round. It took a good bit of scrubbing and even needed crocus cloth on 2 chambers to get a 454 round in. I sold the 45 Colt brass and just shoot the 454 now.

[TXGunNut]

When I was a police officer and we carried S&W 686's, we qualified with .38 Special ammo. We fired hundreds upon hundreds of rounds over the years with no problems.

My PPC gun was a bit odd in that it was a 586, most were built using 38 Spl cylinders. That gun had approximately 200,000 rounds thru it and the cylinder was cleaned after every match. The ring at the end of the 38 case is visible but a 357 cartridge will easily chamber.

[Char-Gar]

No, it won't harm your barrel. It will crud up the chamber and require cleaning from time to time.

[Texas by God]

My wife's Rossi .357carbine was a cowboy action gun in it's first life. We usually shoot .38 specials in it as well because it feeds them better. In short it has had thousands more .38s than .357s. I clean it yearly if it needs it or not- no problems! Shoot those .38 specials.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

No one is quite certain of how the 7X53 cartridge case came about, but when the Boers were desperate for 7mm Mauser ammunition a large quantity of 7X53mm ammunition was palmed off on them.
The Boers called it the "Kortnek" for short neck cartridge.
It may have been a early incarnation of the 7mm Mauser based on the 7.65X53 Belgian Mauser case, the later 7X57 superceeding it, or unscruplous arms dealers may have made these from 7.65X53 cases they had on hand when the 57mm cases got hard to obtain.
The difference in case length , about .16",was a bit more than the difference between the .38 Special and the .357.

The cases were indeed said to have been supplied from Belgian stocks by a contractor. But I believe they were loaded in the state munitions factory in Pretoria, the former Begbie's foundry, which was more accustomed to industrial explosives. While swelling of the bullet may have been responsible, it isn't the only possibility.

The factory had previously depended heavily on British management, and the Transvaal brought in Italian, Austrian and French workers instead. Deneys Reitz was far from alone in serving as a teenaged Boer guerrilla in 1899 - 1902 and colonel of the Royal Scots Fusiliers in France in 1917-18, and he told of meeting an African employee who was quite alarmed at the casual practices of the Italians, who apparently didn't come up to African standards. There followed a massive explosion with about 17 killed, and a sabotage scare, with Mr. Begbie and others arrested. But there had been worries about dangerous practices, and it is unlikely that the explosion was due to anything else. Reitz certainly didn't think so. The rifle accidents may well have been due to quality control too, for they did make smokeless powder locally, and that was notoriously difficult to do consistently in those days. Winchester, in 1899, supplied their own smokeless cartridges, but recommended against reloading with it for this reason.

If the Transvaal government had the choice whether to blame the deceased or someone who placed government contracts, what would they do?

http://www.angloboerwar.com/forum/11-research/10210-begbie-s-foundry-explosion-april-1900

What people mostly worry about with shorter pistol-calibre rounds is gas erosion of the chamber wall, which will cause bad extraction when the longer round is used again. The cases I have found convincing are the use of full-powered Magnum cartridges in the Maximum chamber - or even more than full, which people have loaded on the basis that smaller must be safer, right? It seem improbable with conventional .38 Special loads, i.e. at a level intended for just about any .38 Special revolver. Also if something is being deposited on that exposed chamber and lingering between shots, it seems unlikely that anything can be eroding that same steel.

Still if it worries you, and you really want to get through those 4,500 rounds (which do sound a bit much to waste), you could remove the extractor for about every 500th shot, and poke out the case with a cleaning rod. I think you would notice the first traces of increased adherence long before it got too much for the extractor to cope with.

[tazman]

I have had issues with a 357 revolver chamber building up a layer of crud in front of the 38 special case which was very difficult to remove. While the crud was there, a magnum case could not be loaded in the chamber. Simply cleaning the gun or changing to a better lube will cure the issue.
My chambers have never suffered erosion due to 38 special use and I have fired 10s of thousands of 38 special loads in my revolvers.