148 dewc for self defense ?

[ROCKET]

Anyone reload with 148 dewc for sd ? I used 2.7 gains of bullseye or 3.2 grains of hp38 for punching paper with great success... Very accurate from my snubs , 4" and 6" variety :)

[pworley1]

That should get the job done.

[WallyM3]

Isn't that kinda' slow?

As for the bullet...pretty good meplat!

[Char-Gar]

I do, but I prefer 3.5 grains of Bulleye under a Hensley and Gibbs flat nose wadcutter.

[Char-Gar]

For my bigger sixguns, I like the heavier wadcutters.

[ROCKET]

I do, but I prefer 3.5 grains of Bulleye under a Hensley and Gibbs flat nose wadcutter.

Got to try that :)

What's this one ?

124606

[georgerkahn]

I'd think it might be a very accurate choice -- what I load for my S&W model 52. Perhaps better than a +++P loaded super-powerful firearm with (shooter's) bone-breaking recoil. I'd think a caliber/bullet with a 2-mile range would not be a great choice. (My h/d choice is a can of Wasp & Bee Spray -- to my thinking it, sprayed at the eyes, it will stop anyone, without the "oops" if intruder -- as way too often does -- turns out to be a "friendly" person who, say, lost his keys or similar, or even a harmless drunk who is lost.) Then, I have a scatter-gun as back-up. It appears to me, at least in this state, too often the invader gets off, while the homeowner suffers all sorts of consequences, starting with exorbitant lawyer bills... Home defense is a huge area of discussion/thoughts -- but again, my two cents idea is to go first for the can of Wasp/Bee spray. Some will send a thirty foot stream with pin-point accuracy...
BEST!
georgerkahn

[tazman]

For my 38 special defense loads I use a wadcutter crimped in the first lube groove below the crimp groove or in the case of a double ended wadcutter, I use the second groove. This puts the boolit in the same position(as far as case depth) as a standard semiwadcutter and can use the same powder charges. I get excellent accuracy with this load.

[Outpost75]

The "Full Charge" wadcutter has a LONG history as a defense round.

Good summary here: http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html

Read the comments here: http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2014/01/federal-gold-medal-match-38-special.html

Jim Cirillo of the Stakeout Unit NYPD was a big fan back in the day.

[jmort]

Excellent article "Wicked Wadcutters"

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_hg_wickedwadcutters_200901/

[Love Life]

I wouldn't want to get shot with one.

[WallyM3]

I wouldn't want to get shot with one.

Truly!

[Loudenboomer]

DEWC Boolits are excellent. Fast loading on the progressive presses too. No mater which way you grab em they're always right side up;)
Lately I've been loading Hollow base wc's upside down with 3.5 bullseye or AA452.

[Char-Gar]

Got to try that :)

What's this one ?

124606

225 grain wadcutter developed for bowling pin matches. With any fair hit, it will drive the pin straight back off the table. This I know for a fact. I don't know that it would be more effective for social purposes than a 150 grain wadcutter, unless of course there were two bad guys lined up.

[pjames32]

I use a cast 148gr DEWC over 3.2gr AA#2. Accurate and pleasant to shoot.
PJ

[sealer]

if i were to use a full wadcutter for sd, i would drive it pretty fast.
dennis

[paul h]

I'd think it might be a very accurate choice -- what I load for my S&W model 52. Perhaps better than a +++P loaded super-powerful firearm with (shooter's) bone-breaking recoil. I'd think a caliber/bullet with a 2-mile range would not be a great choice. (My h/d choice is a can of Wasp & Bee Spray -- to my thinking it, sprayed at the eyes, it will stop anyone, without the "oops" if intruder -- as way too often does -- turns out to be a "friendly" person who, say, lost his keys or similar, or even a harmless drunk who is lost.) Then, I have a scatter-gun as back-up. It appears to me, at least in this state, too often the invader gets off, while the homeowner suffers all sorts of consequences, starting with exorbitant lawyer bills... Home defense is a huge area of discussion/thoughts -- but again, my two cents idea is to go first for the can of Wasp/Bee spray. Some will send a thirty foot stream with pin-point accuracy...
BEST!
georgerkahn

And you don't think you'd have legal troubles spraying someone with a face full of poison?

My thinking is if someone breaks into my house, they have put my families life in jeopardy and if they don't immediately prove to be non threatening they will be dealt with accordingly. Fortunately Alaska is reasonable about protecting life and property.

[ROCKET]

Excellent reads... Especially this one http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html

[StrawHat]

When I carried a 38 Special, I loaded a 150 DEWC cast a bit harder than the normal target WC. I tried to get it to 850 fps and found I had a good accurate load that was controllable.

Other WCs are also available, 44 and 45 caliber spring to mind.

[leftiye]

I load 180 gr. Lyman wadcutters in my .44 special. Then I giggle.

[Houndog]

I don't know about double end wadcutters, but a good friend of mine had to shoot one of those "poor misguided getto youts" that broke into his house. The hollow base wadcutter loaded backwards in his model 10 defenately did the job. There was only one side of the "story" to tell and it looked like you had cut a hog's throat in his living room floor.

[nagantguy]

They seem to shoot very well no matter the flavor or barrel length of .38 never had one that didn't shoot em well. See know reason they wouldn't work in a serious social situation, a lead boolit with a wide flat nose at moderate velocity that hits its mark sounds like a winner all.day long

[stu1ritter]

I've been using this full meplat design from Tom at Accurate. Shown are the .44 and .38. I also have the same bullet in .32 for my H&R's. It's the only thing I carry and it gives me lots of room for powder under it.
Stu
http://imageshack.com/a/img834/2776/z9ytr.jpg

[scottfire1957]

I've been using this full meplat design from Tom at Accurate. Shown are the .44 and .38. I also have the same bullet in .32 for my H&R's. It's the only thing I carry and it gives me lots of room for powder under it.
Stu





http://imageshack.com/a/img834/2776/z9ytr.jpg


If you don't mind, would you message to me the mould info for the .32? Thank you!

[Shooter6br]

Ed Harris has article on use of webcutters for SD Ed Harris Revisiting The Full Charge Wadcutter Reloading, Ammunition, Hunting GrantCunningham.com (http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/75f11fe4e235da7c69cabf94daa7dbd9-932.html)

[stu1ritter]

scottfire957, it is Accurate 31-100X for tumble lube. If you prefer standard lube, Tom @ Accurate will just make it up for you. I have it casting to .3145 as I have cylinder throats of .314, .313 and .312 so I size as needed.
Stu

[gcsteve]

A downside to using wadcutters as SD rounds is that they are can be hard to load from a speed-loader. I would carry loaded with wadcutters, and perhaps carry something more speed-loader friendly as my extra ammo.

[StrawHat]

A downside to using wadcutters as SD rounds is that they are can be hard to load from a speed-loader. I would carry loaded with wadcutters, and perhaps carry something more speed-loader friendly as my extra ammo.

While not as easy to load as a round nosed bullet, with a little training, the WC loads into a cylinder fairly easily. PPC shooters seemed to have mastered the trick. I used HKS speedloaders and would chamfer the chamber mouths to give me a little help.

Life is all about trade offs. Using full WC's is one trade off I can adapt to my style of carry.

[Outpost75]

The double-end, bevel-based Saeco #348 mentioned in the Ed Harris article on Grant Cunningham's blog was designed for PPC competition and works slick with speed loaders, I've shot tens of thousands of them and never lost a second on a reload.

124626

[mdi]

One of my "house" guns is loaded with a 150 gr DEWC over a stiff load of W231. I figger it'll do the job without much trouble to the neighbors...

[scottfire1957]

Thanks, Stu.

[Shiloh]

I do, but I prefer 3.5 grains of Bulleye under a Hensley and Gibbs flat nose wadcutter.

This has long been referred to as the full power load.

Shiloh

[Char-Gar]

This has long been referred to as the full power load.

Shiloh

Yep, true dat and useful as well. I don't own a machine rest or anything like that, but as far as I can tell the full power load is fully as accurate as the wimpy target load with the same bullet.

[georgerkahn]

And you don't think you'd have legal troubles spraying someone with a face full of poison?

My thinking is if someone breaks into my house, they have put my families life in jeopardy and if they don't immediately prove to be non threatening they will be dealt with accordingly. Fortunately Alaska is reasonable about protecting life and property.

You've made a VERY valid point, well taken. I think I could live a lot better having sprayed a perp with Black Flag than having pulled the trigger when, too late, I shouldn't have. I highly respect your view -- I guess I'm just too much of a "softy" to use deadly force as first means of home defense. (I do keep the scattergun at hand, to (hopefully never, but it's there) be employed if needed) Maybe or maybe not germane, was what Oscar Pistorius (the South African Olympian) had in mind when he was protecting himself and shot his girlfriend through the bathroom door. (I'm being tongue in cheek, here... rhetorically --) Another factor is the "know your target AND BEYOND" firearm safety rule -- a friend's accidental discharge went through two walls with bullet ending up in a wooden golf club, through a third door! Perhaps I should just be thankful that I've never needed to practice home defense, and really and truly pray I never will! Thanks again for your view, and best wishes for the Holidays!
georgerkahn

[Char-Gar]

You've made a VERY valid point, well taken. I think I could live a lot better having sprayed a perp with Black Flag than having pulled the trigger when, too late, I shouldn't have. I highly respect your view -- I guess I'm just too much of a "softy" to use deadly force as first means of home defense. (I do keep the scattergun at hand, to (hopefully never, but it's there) be employed if needed) Maybe or maybe not germane, was what Oscar Pistorius (the South African Olympian) had in mind when he was protecting himself and shot his girlfriend through the bathroom door. (I'm being tongue in cheek, here... rhetorically --) Another factor is the "know your target AND BEYOND" firearm safety rule -- a friend's accidental discharge went through two walls with bullet ending up in a wooden golf club, through a third door! Perhaps I should just be thankful that I've never needed to practice home defense, and really and truly pray I never will! Thanks again for your view, and best wishes for the Holidays!
georgerkahn

Oscar Pistorious or any other person who wets his pants and shoots through doors and walls should not be allowed to have guns and deserve any punishment or litigation that comes his way. I feel no sympathy for such a person.

Owning a firearm carries with it the responsibility of using it only if necessary and then with skill, a cool head and determination. If a person does not trust themselves to do that, then wasp spray would be an alternative, although I am not at all convinced of it's life saving ability. I am talking saving the life of the sprayor and not the sprayee.

For the record, I have been in several very dangerous situations where my chances of being alive in the next 30 seconds was no better than a coin toss. It is for that reason, I have confidence that I can keep my wits about me in such situations.

No, I have never had to shoot anybody, but I am mentally and spiritually prepared to do so if that becomes necessary. The decision to use a firearm in self defense is not something you can "mull over" at the time. The time for thinking is past, and now it is the time for acting.

[mdi]

I agree with Char-Gar. If one isn't already mentally prepared to defend family/self to the extreme, then all firearms should be locked up in the tool shed. I can imagine a "perp" suing a homeowner for being blinded, lots of jury sympathy there!

[Char-Gar]

I agree with Char-Gar. If one isn't already mentally prepared to defend family/self to the extreme, then all firearms should be locked up in the tool shed. I can imagine a "perp" suing a homeowner for being blinded, lots of jury sympathy there!

Being blinded by wasp spray or being blinded by a bullet would be the same thing as far as litigation goes.

This sounds kind of callous, but it would be cheaper (litigation wise) to kill one than blind one. With a dead one all you pay the family is future lose of wages which is nominal considering their wage earning history. A living blind one will cost your future wages, plus medical, plus future medical, plus pain and suffering. They are cheaper if they are dead!

At Common Law death ended a "cause of action" but most states have passed "survival statues" whereby the cause of action survive and passes to his heirs. But in most jurisdiction, the heirs can only recover what the dead one could recover and not for their own stuff. There are some states this is not true, but who would want to live there?

In Texas and other jurisdictions that have Castle Laws, the blinded or wounded perp can recover nothing if the shooting/injury took place within the purview off the Castle Law. Folks who defend their castle are shielded from liability.

"Texas, our Texas, all hail the might state. Texas, our Texas, so wonderful, so great"

[dondiego]

I agree with Char-Gar. If one isn't already mentally prepared to defend family/self to the extreme, then all firearms should be locked up in the tool shed. I can imagine a "perp" suing a homeowner for being blinded, lots of jury sympathy there!

The "perp" would hope that I am not on the jury if he got sprayed while uninvited in someone's home. I was called to jury duty once but was never needed for a trial.

[Alexn20]

I hope I am never in a situation where I would need to use deadly force. If that did happen I will stick with factory ammo. Given today's society I fear having to defend myself with accusations "The shooter specifically made and loaded these bullets to kill people".

I would hate to have this argument in the courtroom in addition to all the other accusations that would come along with shooting someone in self defense.

[dualsport]

Wasp spray is for bugs. At least get some MACE or bear spray. Designed to incapacitate, NOT poisonous.

[Outpost75]

I hope I am never in a situation where I would need to use deadly force. If that did happen I will stick with factory ammo. Given today's society I fear having to defend myself with accusations "The shooter specifically made and loaded these bullets to kill people".

I would hate to have this argument in the courtroom in addition to all the other accusations that would come along with shooting someone in self defense.

This argument is brought up frequently, but while I have frequently asked for, nobody has ever been able to provide any case law or finding in which handloads were an issue. If anyone is aware of any, post the case citations, please.

[jmort]

There is the case where the guy killed his girl friend and claimed she committed suicide and that is what is relied on by Ayboob and others. That case stands for the proposition that you should not kill your girlfriend. There has never ever been a case ever, never, where someone was convicted of a crime for the use of reloads/handloads in self-defense.

[Outpost75]

There is the case where the guy killed his girl friend and claimed she committed suicide and that is what is relied on by Ayboob and others. That case stands for the proposition that you should not kill your girlfriend. There has never ever been a case ever, never, where someone was convicted of a crime for the use of reloads/handloads in self-defense.

Ayoob's ego is legendary. The truly dangerous men of several nations I have known had no need for pontificating bluster.

[Alexn20]

This argument is brought up frequently, but while I have frequently asked for, nobody has ever been able to provide any case law or finding in which handloads were an issue. If anyone is aware of any, post the case citations, please.

I know of no example but with all the lawsuits these days I wouldn't be surprised at all. Call me paranoid but the vast majority of society has no exposure or knowledge of reloading. Its even foreign to many gun owners.

Thankfully reloading and firearms are more popular than ever. I hope this trend continues.

[Char-Gar]

Ayoob's ego is legendary. The truly dangerous men of several nations I have known had no need for pontificating bluster.

Truer words, have never been spoken (or typed). Ayoob was at best a part time reserve cop, who built a career on asserting as true, things he did not experience and many of which were just total BS.

I am not a gun fighter or hard case of any stripe, plus the only one in danger from me is myself. However I spent a half century as a Texas lawyer and just finished teaching a course on Tort and Personal Injury Litigation. I have also been a Criminal Defense Attorney as well as a Prosecutor. I screamed BS the first time I read Ayoob's nonsense about handloads and my opinion has not changed over the years. I am truly suprised that his nonsense continues to survive in spit of it being thoroughly debunked over and over again.

But folks still believe that unarmed teenager Michael Brown was gunned down by the police trying to surrender. So, I guess the fact that Ayoob's myth still survives should not be a total shock.

[Char-Gar]

I know of no example but with all the lawsuits these days I wouldn't be surprised at all. Call me paranoid but the vast majority of society has no exposure or knowledge of reloading. Its even foreign to many gun owners.

Thankfully reloading and firearms are more popular than ever. I hope this trend continues.

Should you be sued for shooting somebody, the Jury would be asked the question: Would a reasonable prudent man, in the same or similar circumstances, act as Alex did when shooting the Plantiff? The question of what you shot him with would never be an issue before the jury. The issue would turn on the reasonableness of your actions in shooting the Plantiff.

If you are being tried for a criminal offense related to the shooting, the issued would turn on whether or not you had the legal right to use deadly force and not what you shot the perp with. It just is a non-issues.

Fear of the legal system, either civil or criminal is fed by ignorance of the system.

[Alexn20]

Never heard of Ayoob but a google search looks like there is drama to say the least.

I agree with you Char-gar. I am ignorant when it comes to the legal system. I mainly try and stay out of trouble.

Didn't mean to derail the thread and start a heated debate.

Carry on...

[Outpost75]

Never heard of Ayoob but a google search looks like there is drama to say the least.....

"Drama" indeed.... The comedy would be more entertaining if it were printable. I recall a particular layover in the Frankfurt airport on the way to a trade show. I was representing a US defense contractor exhibitor and was having a drink with my German BGS host-escort, who was there to assist me with bringing our exhibits through customs and securing them for transport.

Our "hero" was at a nearby table trying to impress a local working girl with his enlightened conversation, within earshot of us.
The young lady asked if he was in Germany for business or pleasure. Mas was "strictly business", of course. She then asked, ".....what type of business are you in?" and he replied, "I am the Director of the Lethal Force Institute and I teach People to KILL!"

The hooker walked away without saying a word. My host asked me, "Who is the Ugly American?" and I replied, "If you don't know who he is, that is just as well, but I would advise your personnel to pay him special attention." And they did.

[Char-Gar]

Never heard of Ayoob but a google search looks like there is drama to say the least.

I agree with you Char-gar. I am ignorant when it comes to the legal system. I mainly try and stay out of trouble.

Didn't mean to derail the thread and start a heated debate.

Carry on...

Alex...I don't see a heated debate. This topic pops up from time to time on this board as the Ayoob canard has become dissolved into the shooting culture like the salt in the sea. Folks mention it even though they don't know the source. But knowing the source helps put the myth in perspective.

I grew up in a family of lawyers and judges, so I have never had much fear of the legal system. However rattlesnakes make me just three feet into the air and folks that understand the serpents, think that is ludicrous. Rational or not I avoid them whenever I can.

I am 72 years old and have avoided trouble all my life and I hope to keep that record unbroken. I also don't plan on getting snake bit either. :-)

[Outpost75]

Char-Gar

I love your salt in the sea analogy. Best revenge on rattlers is to make hat bands, belts and string ties of their hides and rattles, and roasted fajitas of their carcasses, served with good home-made tortillas, fire-roasted peppers, onions and frijoles refritos, washed down with a long-neck Lone Star, although you probably already know that!

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar

I love your salt in the sea analogy. Best revenge on rattlers is to make hat bands, belts and string ties of their hides and rattles, and roasted fajitas of their carcasses, served with good home-made tortillas, fire-roasted peppers, onions and frijoles refritos, washed down with a long-neck Lone Star, although you probably already know that!

West Virginia may be almost heaven, but it is not your spiritual home. You belong in Texas! The only change I would make to your menu is to substitute Corona for Long Star beer. Lone Star give me the runs in the morning.

[lightman]

I usually carry some type of auto loader for my defense, usually loaded with something like a Golden Sabre. I load hollow base wad cutters backward in my wifes model 60, fairly warm.

The wasp spray is an interesting idea. I use this a lot in my line of work, and have found that it works well on mean dogs. Now, don't all of you dog lovers get mad! This stuff is a lot milder than pepper spray or dog spray. I have found that the noise that it makes, and the smell, when sprayed on the ground between me and the dog is usually all that is needed. I have sprayed a few dogs though, and found that it has no lasting effect. Like most people who use this stuff, I have gotten a face full of it, from time to time.

If defending my family, I would rather have something more permanent.

[lightman]

Char-Gar, your insight into the legal system is good to hear. I have read all of the stuff written about using handloads for self defense and just assumed them to be true.

[Outpost75]

West Virginia may be almost heaven, but it is not your spiritual home. You belong in Texas! The only change I would make to your menu is to substitute Corona for Long Star beer. Lone Star give me the runs in the morning.

I thank you for the compliment. My kinfolk were coal miners, loggers and moonshiners, but I confess to having shared a house for a two years with an MP Major from San Antonio when he was in DC. Jim is back in San Antonio now living in one of the retirement cottages on East Grayson just off post, if you know the area. He taught this hillbilly how to cook.

[ruizhernandeztrust]

This argument is brought up frequently, but while I have frequently asked for, nobody has ever been able to provide any case law or finding in which handloads were an issue. If anyone is aware of any, post the case citations, please.

+1
The man is right, Where's the proof? I want to see it too.

[Char-Gar]

I thank you for the compliment. My kinfolk were coal miners, loggers and moonshiners, but I confess to having shared a house for a two years with an MP Major from San Antonio when he was in DC. Jim is back in San Antonio now living in one of the retirement cottages on East Grayson just off post, if you know the area. He taught this hillbilly how to cook.

The Major must be quite a fellow. The years I lived in Kentucky, folks told me Hillbillies were unteachable. However the ones I met in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky were fine folks once they figured out you were not there to take advantage of them. I do think I learned more from them, than they did from me.

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar, your insight into the legal system is good to hear. I have read all of the stuff written about using handloads for self defense and just assumed them to be true.

Never assume anything is true you have not witnessed with your own eyes, and even then be careful because your eyes can play tricks on you. :-)

[Outpost75]

The Major must be quite a fellow. The years I lived in Kentucky, folks told me Hillbillies were unteachable. However the ones I met in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky were fine folks once they figured out you were not there to take advantage of them. I do think I learned more from them, than they did from me.

If you are familiar with US Army force structure, the organization of the Military Police and CID in particular, the MPs tend not to be top heavy, so a senior Major in the MPs who was ten years enlisted, ten years as a warrant officer and ten years commissioned is at the end of his career path. I met Jim through introduction by a high school classmate, who graduated from Texas A&M, who at the time was also an MP Major of CID, then in DC. The last I heard he was employed with Gavin deBecker Associates, who you may be familiar with.

[StrawHat]

Another thing about Ayoob, he was a front man for a company that sold loaded SD ammunition. I wonder why he would not want you to load your own?

[RedHawk357Mag]

So about them double end wad cutters... Just made a huge purchase of Rem-Umc, double canalure 148 grain wad cutter brass. I have been playing around with a Noe 155 grn wad cutter mold. Thinking these are going to be a great combination. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/19/e62ff6b2694352102c3cdf7af459f7e4.jpg

[Wayne Smith]

I hope I am never in a situation where I would need to use deadly force. If that did happen I will stick with factory ammo. Given today's society I fear having to defend myself with accusations "The shooter specifically made and loaded these bullets to kill people".

I would hate to have this argument in the courtroom in addition to all the other accusations that would come along with shooting someone in self defense.

In the unlikely event that I would ever be on the witness stand - "Your Honor, when I intend to kill I use my .44, my rifle, or my shotgun". "That would be when I am hunting".

[Char-Gar]

In the unlikely event that I would ever be on the witness stand - "Your Honor, when I intend to kill I use my .44, my rifle, or my shotgun". "That would be when I am hunting".

Rethink that. 1. Your answer would be directed toward one of the attorneys and not the judge. 2. Juries don't like cute and smart *** answers and would downgrade your testimony because of that. Gotcha answers work against you and not for you.

A better answer would be; No sir, I did not intend to kill the man. I intended to stop him from killing me.

[dualsport]

Well, somebody has to ask- what's wrong with semi-wadcutters? Up close, "what difference does it make?". Further out, more better. I prefer two holes, an exit wound has benefits.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well, somebody has to ask- what's wrong with semi-wadcutters? Up close, "what difference does it make?". Further out, more better. I prefer two holes, an exit wound has benefits.

There's not much wrong with SWC. Little more weight than a convention DEWC, little more speed-loader friendly, decent meplat but not quite as good as a full WC - maybe a bit more penetration as a bonus.

A hollowpoint LSWC, such as the classic FBI load may be even better. If the HP-LSWC doesn't expand, you've lost nothing and are back to a SWC that weighs just slightly less than a solid SWC.

Trying to get hollowpoins to expand at snubnose velocities is tough and that's why the full wadcutter is attractive in those guns. +P pressures and soft lead bullets help a lot when trying to get hollowpoints to expand.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned the hollow based wadcutter seated backwards as a possibility. I think that is generally a bad idea. While I'm sure there are a few examples of stunning results, I believe the failures far outnumber the successes. That thin skirt that forms the hollow base is not tough enough to stay with the base when the bullet strikes something. Assuming you can hit your target with them (I've played with them and I was very unimpressed) I think the base would peel off and significantly reduce the retained weight of the remaining main projectile. I wouldn't rely on that setup if given any choice in the matter.

[silverbuzzard]

Years ago ,we used to load the hollow base wad cutter backwards, coming out around 800 was enough as it flattened like a large washer on any impact.

The story goes that was the inspiration to develop the federal hydrashok bullet

[rintinglen]

Well, somebody has to ask- what's wrong with semi-wadcutters? Up close, "what difference does it make?". Further out, more better. I prefer two holes, an exit wound has benefits.
In a self defense situation, there is no benefit to a bullet that exits it's target.
In the first shooting with the then new 9mm LA Sheriff's department-issued Berettas, a bullet traversed the armed robber and struck and killed a pregnant shopper. They paid a reported 1.5 million, and that was over 25 years ago. You or I would have gone to jail, albeit we might not be convicted.
Excessive penetration is not your friend.

[Blackwater]

Char-Gar's advice and comments are sage and apt, but more importantly, his EXPERIENCE is DEFINITIVE. How we "moderns" got to thinking that theory ever trumps experience is .... well, let's just say it's "interesting," OK? We, speaking collectively here and with particular emphasis on the mass media, have come to over-think so many, many things that it's a wonder we still even call it "thinking" at all. I'll chalk that one up to simple human "kindness" here, whether or not it's very apt to do so.

Some time back, I posted a similar question about the full load WC. I have a little Colt Det. Spl. of older origin that can't take +P loads, and those stubby little 2" barrels don't give powder much time to burn and get the bullets up to decent speeds. Thereby limited, I reasoned that if velocity is limited, the best thing to do is choose a bullet that'll cut the biggest hole so that blood leaks faster and more arteries, veins and capillaries are cut. This means it might take a bad guy a few seconds or even minutes to expire and cease to be a threat. This is where knowing how to use a limited tool well makes all the difference. Most people, when shot, realize they're in trouble and cease hostilities. However, there are an increasing number of drug users, meth users now being chief among them, who are VERY hard to stop. They can just get angry and more determined than ever when shot. This is when the ability to make a head shot counts, and can be the determinant of whether you get to go home or to the morgue. Each tool has its particular uses and advantages, AND its own set of weaknesses as well, and it's knowing what these are, and how they're most likely to play out, and how to compensate for any weaknesses involved, that is necessary. If we're really interested in self defense, we need to apply some serious and in depth thought to the matter. When it becomes necessary to USE it, if that happens, it's too late to go study up on the matter. Therefore, choosing a GOOD load for the tool in question is just simply intelligent and wise. Knowing its limitations and how to compensate for them is something I see little mention of, however, and a WC in the head is pretty well an instant stopper IF it actually hits the brain. Whether the perp dies or not is, for that moment at least, inconsequential. It's STOPPING the perp that is the object that MUST be achieved, and it must be achieved at any and all costs if you want to go home and not to the morgue, as many have done.

I've carried defensive guns as small as a little Freedom Arms mini revolver with 1" barrel and only 5 shots. I realized very early on that the only way it would be effective is if someone was already on me or within short arm's reach, and I pressed it against his belly or whatever was available, and pulled the trigger, thereby releasing not only the bullet into the body cavity, but the muzzle blast and soot and goo as well. That will give a perp plenty to think on and likely, in most all cases, cease hostilities long enough to wriggle free if one is but competent and unintimidated enough to do a little wrestling.

Self defense is WAY more than just carrying a loaded gun. It's a mindset, and it requires judgment and calm. It's that judgment we moderns seem to have the most problems with. Even a child knows that if someone is trying to kill or seriously harm another, it's "natural" to try to stop it. We moderns have all sorts of other answers to that scenario, though, and that's "very interesting" as well, when even a child knows what to do.