Any wood workers around here?

[.45Cole]

I'm renting a "Victorian" house and the guy had done this edging around the windows (some of them) and I'm pretty sure he cut the edging himself. How did he make the circles? I bet the rest was done on a shaper, but I can't figure the circles. Google says to do all sorts of stuff with a fixed nail and a router, but this guy isn't that patient; he haphazardly built a porch that would hurt your eyes if it wasn't painted over so.
124560124561124562

[smoked turkey]

He probably made the circles with a bit in a drill press that had that particular pattern. he may have used a combination of more than one bit. You might be able to find something like this if you have a wood working supply store that has shaper/router bits. It may have been a custom bit that he ground himself.

[tunnug]

Those appear to be corners that can be bought to design your trim, the way he put them on is odd, the ones I've seen are square not rectangular, they would've looked better if the edge trim had been cut off to make it square. The above poster is correct that they are done on a drill press, you just have to have the proper bit, Sears used to sell a kit to make your own trim at one point not sure if they still do.

[billyb]

called a rosette cutter, used in a drill press. that style is called a head block. I have only seen the square corner block.

[NavyVet1959]

You could probably also create it with a series of router bits, a router table, and a pin in the center of the piece of wood in some sort of jig that would allow the piece to rotate.

[Blacksmith]

They are called bullseye corner blocks and this is what they should look like:
http://www.heartwoodcarving.com/home/hwc_1360604070950/smartlist_296/bullseye-blocks

You can get them from Constantines
http://www.constantines.com/cornerblock.aspx

Home despot carries them:
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Moulding-Millwork-Moulding/Block/N-5yc1vZara1Z1z135qw

Here is a better selection:
http://www.midwestmouldings.com/shop/catalog/browse?sessid=GlGgm8w6vwLjhQNM4dYPijCNiH1fkYSyEiU2 q2P3E5yk9rdeuuzeM5ivi0hxcmRr&shop_param=

Tool for making your own:
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/rosette.htm

Or
http://www.woodline.com/p-2017-rosette-cutters-on-a-38-shaft.aspx

[.45Cole]

I think you got guys got it with the drill press knives. The pieces outline some windows and it looks pretty cool, if you like the ornate victorian. The pieces of wood he uses are not the same length and the side trim looks like a pass through a shaper, then flip the board and pass again for a double cut (6" board width). The wood's width (smallest dimension as in no planar used) doesn't match and there are large knicks in the lumber, so I think this guy did some of it by himself or his dog helped out. I just thought that the design was good looking if I could duplicate it, although without the mess-ups. Crown molding is a 1x2. No mitered cuts in the corners.

[labradigger1]

He passed a board through a moulder/planer to make the cove and decorative edging, then he used a rosette cutter on a drill press to cut the profile of the circles. You can also do the rosette on a lathe using a faceplate and a cutter in the tailstock. Sometimes you will encounter a rosette in the phlint block at the bottom of the casing as well.
This trim would not be that hard to make or time consuming with some common tools.
Lab

[Hamish]

Plinth (Rosette), Cove mould, Wainscoting.

Side Casings look like some kind of window casing on top of 1x material. What do the Stool and the Apron look like? (Window ledge and the molding under it.)

Hit the Depot, Lowes, or whatever your local area has in the way of having a good selection of mouldings. All of it should be repeatable.

However, whatever you do, DO NOT go out and find a user grade Stanley 45 Multi-Plane to reproduce any of the casing grooving. Just remember, you have been warned,,,,,,:bigsmyl2: (the pic is a 55, too much of a good thing, the fender fins and rocket tail lights of multi-planes.)

[bangerjim]

All are good ideas. Power molding planer will make the long cuts. Rosettes are made with those cutters as described. I have several of them. Used in a QUALITY BIG drill press with the wood well clamped down!

A Stanley 45 or 55 will make the long cuts (I have both), but you will kill youself running that hand plane on long pieces!

For circles, just buy the correct rosette cutter form from the many vendors on line that sell them. Go slower with the drill press speed. I do these in my milling machine with micro downfeed! A nail in a router?????????? Never heard of that Rube Goldberg cobble before! It would leave a non-repeatable rough surface you would spend lots of time trying to sand down. And the last time I checked, I could not swing a 4 foot piece of molding in any of my wood lathes to cut a rossette.

If you need long runs, hire it done by a local cabinet shop. Cutting face molding on a routher table is darn near impossilble! They do sell vertical carbide cutters for face molding (I have 8 of the), but they are not really made for use in a router table. Believe me, I have tried it and it does not work well!!!! I ONLY use them in my 2PH shaper. AND....for short runs. And you will spend more on a QUALITY shaper and appropriate REAL shaper face cutters than you can hire it done for.

Sears used to sell a "POC" cutter head with different inserts that went in your BIG rugged table saw. Not a good tool or surface finish at all! May have worked in dead soft pine.....not oak or walnut or cherry. I don't use pine.

I have all the tools. I still would BUY the things you are wanting because my time is more valuable than what it would take for me to make long runs of QUALITY hardwood molding. I make short runs for matching antique clock and furniture repair/reproductions.....not for lining an entire room!

Good luck!

bangerjim

[jcwit]

In a different life I worked in a small woodshop catering to the RV industry. We made untold thousands for a number of companies for their high end units.


Yes, they are made in a drill press with a bit with that contour, however we made them on a CNC Router with 2 heads and multi units on the table. Each run of the table made 20 pcs and it took less than 60 seconds to do 1 table. Pcs. were loaded on the finished end as the router was finishing the other end. Approx. 1,000 an hour.

[jcwit]

We also made molding in various shapes, can't really remember making the same shape you show. We made much of it for picture frames which we also made by the thousands for a company.

We had a dual head 45 degree miter saw along with a dual stapler to assemble the frames.

[waynem34]

Do you have a local mill?They will have to equipment and knives but charge by the foot.The one around here usually runs extra when they set the knives up and may have something similar.Unless you have the stuff to do it with.I've seen it done with a few sharp shizils/on that old wood wright show.I think I did anyway.Best of luck and Happy Holidays.

[NavyVet1959]

These days, instead of having a single trim piece with a rosette on each end and some sort of profile cut between them, you find the rosettes separate and then the longer trim pieces with just the profile butt-jointed against them to make a corner around a door or whatever. When it's painted, no one really notices that the door trim is made up of multiple pieces.

http://www.newmouldings.com/media/2013_rosette1.jpg

Looks better and is easier than just cutting molding at 45 degree angles for going around a door.

http://www.27estore.com/media/glossary/2-panel-interior-door.jpg

But, some people do go a bit overboard with the details / decoration...

http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/secondempire/SEmoldingburlington500.gif

[.45Cole]

I have seen the Woodright's Shop on PBS and he does everything by hand, sometimes faster and better quality than powertools. That said, Navyvet1959's first pic is what I had in mind. I had seen reed (?) knives for a shaper and then the rosettes for the corners. Maybe a little more for the top of the door. I'm young and I have the time to invest in tools so I might as well... I have a buddy who used his tablesaw to do the baseboards and crown molding with some sort of bit, but he also has access to a cabinet shop. Next new thing to get into since I'm full of Miha molds.

[.45Cole]

Hamish- the sillplate is 1x rounded edge and the apron is just a planed 1x no frills. I'm only renting the place but I like the idea, as in I wanted to learn how to do this. Plus it's an excuse to invest in a shaper!!!!

[bangerjim]

Hamish- the sillplate is 1x rounded edge and the apron is just a planed 1x no frills. I'm only renting the place but I like the idea, as in I wanted to learn how to do this. Plus it's an excuse to invest in a shaper!!!!

You will not be sorry getting a good shaper! Do not waste you money on a router and a table. I have 2 shapers and use them a lot. A router is good for work you cannot remove from it's place, like edgings. But for serious molding and shaping.......a 2-3PH shaper is the way to go. They use standard (expensive!) shaper cutters and also adapt to 1/2" collet router bit shanks. With the bits, a whole world opens up for you. With the bit held rigid in the shaper spindle, you can to amazing things with precise depth adjustments and multi passes & bits. It is nice to have total control over your work without a 20K RPM screaming router in your ears!!!!

Check out a GOOD micro-adjustable fence for whatever you buy. And a good dust/chip removal vacuum system. A dual bag dust collector is far superior to a whining fills-up-real-fast shop-vac. Save the shop-vac for vacuuming the floor, not dust/chip collection. You will make a LOT of chips with a shaper!

banger

[jcwit]

Hey, while you're at it get an automatic 3 wheel feeder for the shaper.

And WATCH where you're hands are every second. I've seen way to many hands mangled by a shaper.

[jcwit]

Feeder for shaper?

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/woodworking/power-feeders/model-pf3-jr-1-4hp-1ph-115v-3-wheel?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CPPCpsKyzcICFQESMwodLnoA6g&gclsrc=aw.ds

[bangerjim]

I had a power feeder for several wood tools. Tried it on the shaper..........did not like it. If you are trying to do yards and yards of commercial molding...mabe.

To each his own. Save your money and buy good quality 1/2" shank carbide router bits (not HF) for your shaper.

Been using a shaper for 30 years now and still have all 10. Invest in good quality push blocks....do not use home-made wooden Rube Goldberg's!!!!!!

banger

[MtGun44]

Currently finishing rehabbing my father's Homecraft 'light duty' shaper, which weighs
around 70 lbs minus the stand! Neat piece of heavy cast iron, turns about 10,000 RPMS
and can do a lot of neat cuts.

Bill

[bangerjim]

Wasn't Homecraft the house brand for Monkey Ward? Good old stuff. Hope it has a 1/2" collet adapter down in the spindle so you can use router bits! Those olde vintage tools by Wards, Sears and others were built very well and are better than new Chicom carp found today.

banger

[retread]

Actually it was Delta Homecraft made for the home handyman. A bit lighter and smaller overall than their standard lathes that were often seen in High School woodshops years ago. Look at the label in the picture.

124700

Here is one that I just finished reclaiming from a boneyard. Just starting on the larger version I got from a school auction after they close out heir woodshop.:cry:

[jcwit]

Been using a shaper for 30 years now and still have all 10. Invest in good quality push blocks....do not use home-made wooden Rube Goldberg's!!!!!!

banger

All I can say to that is what I already said, WATCH WHERE YOUR HANDS ARE ALWAYS AT. You walk thru the pasture long enough you will step in it. It took AJ Foyt nearly his whole career to hit the wall, but he did eventually. It only takes a 1/2 second and a misstep. I never did, and oversaw the operation and set-up's for years, but others did, got too confident I guess.

[bangerjim]

The key to personal safety it.........respect the power tool you are using all the time! Do NOT become over confident with it or yourself. Always look ahead and foresee any potential danger.

And..........if it seems dangerous or awkward...........it probably IS!!!!!!! Rethink your set-up or operation.

You see these guys that spend a fortune on one of those electronically braked saws that will stop when the blade touches a hotdog (or a finger). And you spend the cost of a new saw on the replacement of the sensing mechanism! I feel something like that instills overconfidence and sloppiness in one's operation of the tool.

Woodworking and metalworking are fun. You have to be alert and pro-active when it comes to safe operations all the time.

I have a yellow and black safety sign posed on every power tool in our shops: "This tool has no brain - PLEASE engage yours before using."

banger

[Blacksmith]

Had a shop teacher in Junior High School many many years ago who was missing a finger. He had spray painted a shadow image of his hand on all the machine work surfaces in the shop. To this day I can see that image whenever I walk up to a potentially dangerous power tool. He made a lasting impression on a lot of students.

[.45Cole]

There are quite a few of the older larger Delta shapers around my area. The large ones running 1-3 hp and weighing in about 400lbs. I'm probably going to fit some junk (feather board and some sort of push block) to it as I always seem to have problems with kickback from tablesaws. I think they can smell my fear. I try to avoid them like the plague, but I'm looking to buy an old Unisaw while I'm out of town next week. I figure I'll start off by not looking directly at it and wearing my big Key jacket. Probably wear my shades and grab the AK to look more menacing.

[mozeppa]

called a rosette cutter, used in a drill press. that style is called a head block. I have only seen the square corner block.

this....i have a few cutters like that.

[bangerjim]

There are quite a few of the older larger Delta shapers around my area. The large ones running 1-3 hp and weighing in about 400lbs. I'm probably going to fit some junk (feather board and some sort of push block) to it as I always seem to have problems with kickback from tablesaws. I think they can smell my fear. I try to avoid them like the plague, but I'm looking to buy an old Unisaw while I'm out of town next week. I figure I'll start off by not looking directly at it and wearing my big Key jacket. Probably wear my shades and grab the AK to look more menacing.

Featherboards are OK on a table saw, but tend to lead to pauses in feed rate and thus ripples in you surface using a shaper. I never use featherboards. Buy some of those heavy fiberglass-reinforced foam faced push blocks. They are about 3x9" and allow you 100% control and protect your hands at all times. And there are miter slot devices you can use on your shaper to keep your fingers from harm.

Kickbacks are caused by operator error....binding, poor techniques, crooked cuts, green wood, and other things. In the many decades of using tablesaws, routers, jointers, shapers, and lathes, I have never had any "kickback". It is all in your skill and how you hold your mouth! :bigsmyl2:

Never FEAR your power tools......always RESPECT them! Fear will only lead to personal injury due to hesitations at the wrong time and mental distractions. And destroyed work pieces and possible tool damage.

bangerjim

[.45Cole]

It was brought about in high school and I'm pretty sure it was a blade out of alignment or something. I rarely have to use a tablesaw and get by on my mitre saw. I'll start off with a solid old saw and rekindle our relationship under new terms. Hopefully.

[NavyVet1959]

It was brought about in high school and I'm pretty sure it was a blade out of alignment or something. I rarely have to use a tablesaw and get by on my mitre saw. I'll start off with a solid old saw and rekindle our relationship under new terms. Hopefully.

I have one of the old Craftsman table saws. Cast iron table and pretty large, so it's heavy and takes up a bit of space. Don't need it that often, but it's nice to have when you really need it.

[MaryB]

Shop teacher in junior high(yes I took shop, I already knew how to cook and sew, knew rough carpentry already too but we could make a nice night stand and I wanted one) was saying do this and this like I am doing and the table saw will never kick ba... wham as a 2x4 embeds into the wall between wood shop and metal shop. He was looking at us and not watching the saw and I saw the fence shift, he forgot to tighten the clamp. And what is it with school shop teachers and a missing finger? He had 2 gone on his left hand where he got them in the band saw while wearing gloves. Saw grabbed the glove and pulled his hand down and in.

[bangerjim]

I know! I have been acquainted with a lot of older guys that were missing fingers. Back in the day, OSHA and safety were non-existant. They never wore eye or ear protection either.

I have been cutting wood and metal on power equipment since 1965 and still have all 10! Just follow common sense rules and (something that seems not to exist much these days) WISDOM. I have always been able to look ahead and foresee unsafe acts.....have saves many guys' digits doing that.

95% of accidents are attributed to operator error or mis-adjustment of equipment or ignorance of operation of same. Some is just plain outright stupidity!!!!!!!!!!


banger

[shooter93]

I've been at this for nearly 50 years and I know quite a few Cabinetmakers who have the "reminder" piece of lumber hanging on the wall somewhere in the shop. Usually from a kick back and luckily few were injured. It happens often when doing things by rote of milling a large number of the same part. There is a little guy in your head who ALWAYS reminds you what you are about to do isn't such a good idea....listen to him.

[woodbutcher]

:) You might also try grizzly.com.They have some pretty good stuff.Reasonable too.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[MaryB]

Cabinet shop I worked for had a 10x12 foot bed panel saw. Material is supposed to be clamped well with edge blocking before cutting. Monday morning hungover blues and the saw operator hit start without clamping anything. They left the sheet stuck in the ceiling that was tossed 50 feet. Lucky he was only cutting some small pieces into trim parts from a single sheet and not a full stack of 8x10 sheets. 2x1' piece came out and skimmed over everyone's heads until it hit the ceiling. He was fired for still being drunk and there is a tag hanging from that piece that says SAFETY FIRST. I normally worked up in assembly but was down there trimming some pieces for a rush order when it happened.


I've been at this for nearly 50 years and I know quite a few Cabinetmakers who have the "reminder" piece of lumber hanging on the wall somewhere in the shop. Usually from a kick back and luckily few were injured. It happens often when doing things by rote of milling a large number of the same part. There is a little guy in your head who ALWAYS reminds you what you are about to do isn't such a good idea....listen to him.