38-40 using Black powder?

[andym79]

Hi guys, dumb question. I am considering trying black powder in my 1892 38-40 after some issues with H4227.

Do I just fill the case up with 38 grains of FFF and use LP primers like I have been doing with smokeless? Do I need a wad? Do I need any special type of lube? And do I need to put a firm crimp in as there would be powder to the base. Does BP substitute have the same density? Is 38 grains of Swiss 3F the same of 38 of the true BP? Sorry to ask but I have never shot BP before!

[Don McDowell]

Probably can't get over about 31 or 32 grs of that Swiss in the case, and not have some issues trying to compress the powder without buckling the case.
Have your bullets lubed with a good blackpowder bullet lube.
A wad isn't necessary, but it sure won't hurt.
Just enough crimp to keep the bullet from jumping out of the case, the blackpowder charge will keep it from going deeper in the case.
Just be sure to wash your cases after you fire them.

[Dan Cash]

Use all the black you can get under your bullet. A case full might be compressed enough to seat your bullet but you will need to experiment; modern cases will likely not hold more than about 32 grains of 3Fg powder. Figure out the volume you can get into the case and compress enouoght to get the bullet in and that is your charge. Don't worry about the weight as you can't overcharge the case.
The substitutes do not behave like black and if you can get black, fergeddaboudt the substitutes.
Do not compress the powder with a bullet. A special die is used to compress the powder but the neck expansion die can be modified to compress the powder at the same time as expanding the neck if you are using Redding or Lyman. Some others may work that way as well. A wad is not needed but won't hurt. Remember, the wad sucks up powder space and the .38-40 is no target round.
If shooting a rifle only, a crimp is not needed. If loads are for a pistol, use a very light crimp.
Lubricants for BP do not have petrolium. A good, simple lube to start your BP shooting experience would be equal paarts of bee wax and peanut oil or other vegetable oil. Canola is the best if available in your area. Add a little lanolin, 1 oz to a quart of lube, makes the lube stick in the grooves better.
Have fun as I am sure you will. When the gun gopes boom, you want to shout "Whee."

[MattOrgan]

In my .38/40 cases for my 92 Winchester I can get about 30 grains of 1F powder ( I know, but it's what I have) under a 180 grain bullet. I use both the Lee 180 grain TC tumble lube bullet intended for the .40S&W/10mm or a 180 gr bullet cast in an original Winchester .38 WCF mold. A 4 inch or longer drop tube helps settle the powder. Think volume, not weight. Have enough powder in the case to cause light compression when seating the bullet and use a gentle crimp. No wad is necessary. Use soft or nearly pure lead for you bullet. I tumble lube the the Lee bullet and use Ben's Red on the Winchester bullet. Pistol primers work great. I don't have a fouling issue in the 30-50 rounds I fire at a time. Another tip is that I cannot get 30 grains of 1F in new cases, only once fired- I size just enough for easy chambering in my 92. You've probably noticed that new .38/40 cases look like bottleneck style and eject looking like a tapered case. They split at the "shoulder" faster if you size them more than necessary, usually right at the cannelure. It's fun to do but with my old rifle my normal load is 5 grains of Bullseye with the 180 grain bullets. This load has enought oomph and accuracy to topple all the silhouettes at our pistol caliber lever action silhouette matches.

[Don McDowell]

2f works the best in my 38wcf's. Also like 16-1 bullet alloy. A thin wad does seem to help with the accuracy a bit , but it is not necessary.

[andym79]

So I won't need to run a patch through it every five rounds to keep it clean for a 40 shot match?

Is this okay to use in the 1892WANO BLACK POWDER 5FA? Or should I get Swiss?

[Don McDowell]

A clean barrel won't hurt anything, so wiping between relay's can't be a bad thing..

Not sure how the powder numbering changes between here and there, but 2 f Schuetzen (Wano) is a good powder.

[w30wcf]

So I won't need to run a patch through it every five rounds to keep it clean for a 40 shot match?

Is this okay to use in the 1892WANO BLACK POWDER 5FA? Or should I get Swiss?

Based on my experience in the .44-40, it depends on the bullet. While I have never used WANO, I suspect that it is probably similar to Schuetzen, in which case you would likely have to wipe the bore after every 10 rounds or so...if you are using the original 2 lube grooved bullet.

On the other hand, I have been able to shoot 50+ rounds in a row using Swiss or Olde Enysford black powders with the original 2 lube grooved bullet. I would suggest 2F granulation.

Please see your other post.

If legal, you could use a duplex load of 4 grs of 4227 under the Wano powder which should help eliminate the possibility of having to clean the bore during the match.

To answer your other questions that haven't yet been answered...
B.p. substitutes are lighter than b.p in the same volume.
Example: 40 gr volume measure = 22 - 27 grs by weight depending on the substitute.

38 grains volume = 38 grs by weight of Swiss or 34 grs. By weight of Goex. Different b.p.'s can have different densities. Not sure what the actual weight would be of Wano.


w30wcf