casting temp./bullet appearance

[BigGun]

good evening fellow casters,I have been casting bullets for many years, I have
?'s about what i am reading in a lot of the posts on this site.My bullet metal is
1part linotype , and 2 parts ww.My casting temp. is 675degs. . temp does not
reach 700 and I keep it above 600, using a lyman lead therometer, My heate source
is a 2 burner natural gas hot plate. i have w pots on this setup one is for casting
outof, the other is premelted bullet metal ready to transfer to my casting pot as
needed after fluxing, i return sprues and bad bullets to the reserve pot to avoid
cooling down my casting pot.I am a dipper guy.I use lyman and lee molds. If my bullets do not shine like polished silver, I remelt them,(no frosted bullets)I keep a wet sponge in a shallow plastic pan just larger than the sponge, after i have cast
15 to 20 casts, I touch my mold to the wet sponge (sprue first than bottum to mold
touched to wet sponge, the touch time to the wet sponge is very short maby
1 sec. this keeps my mold cool enough that I do not get frosted bullets., also
allows me to cast faster.
my ?'s why are some of you running at such a high temp? I am not argueing
with a method that works.
When my bullets start frosting, they are not filled out on the driving bands.
how do you get good filled out bullets when frosted? more later.

ted kelley

[grumpy one]

My bullet metal is 1part linotype , and 2 parts ww.My casting temp. is 675degs. . temp does not reach 700 and I keep it above 600, using a lyman lead therometer, If my bullets do not shine like polished silver, I remelt them,(no frosted bullets)
my ?'s why are some of you running at such a high temp? I am not argueing
with a method that works.
When my bullets start frosting, they are not filled out on the driving bands.
how do you get good filled out bullets when frosted? more later.

ted kelley

Ted, if your lino is not depleted and your WW is 3% antimony and 0.5% tin, your alloy is 1.7% tin and 6% antimony. This is very close to Taracorp Magnum alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony). The melting point of that alloy is substantially lower than pure WW, and it is also considerably easier to cast. I never use the high temperatures quite a few people here use, but then I never use less than 1.3% tin, so I don't have the fill-out issues that many people do unless they use high temperatures.

I always use alloy and mould temperatures that give fully-frosted bullets, because (so far) I find them to have much lower weight variances if I do that. It isn't necessary for fill-out, I just find the shiny ones vary too much - in hardness as well as weight.

At this point I have no suggestions as to why you would find fill-out problems when you allow your mould to heat up to the point where the bullets start to frost. Incidentally you should either have them shiny all over, or frosted all over - piebald bullets are likely to have non-homogeneous metallurgical properties.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ted, Grumpy one has pretty well explained about shiny vs. frosted boolits. I would like to add that with my WW plus 2% tin alloy, I get mostly visually perfect castings with boolits that are frosted all over. I am also a "dipper guy" and run my 12 lb. Potter pot at 700-740F. This takes a little fiddling with the Coleman stove, but after all these years it is manageable. If I allow the temperature to get well into the upper 700s the "sunken band syndrome" troll can appear. Bases will still fill out well, but there will be places in the drive bands, or the bore riding nose just ahead of the bands, that do not fill out. Frosted boolits are my favorites, but it can be too much of a good thing. There isn't much doubt when you are looking at SBS. A long bore rider can appear to be bent like a banana.

[BigGun]

grumpy one
NVcurmudgeon
thanks for your replies and tin% in bullet metal info, I know little about metal makeup,
I needed to find out why my casting temps were lower than a lot of posters on this
forum. I sure enjoy lurking around this forum, get a lot of interesting info.

thanks again.
Ted Kelley

[454PB]

Most of us old casters had no thermometer to set temperature. Like most casters, my main alloy was (and is) wheelweight alloy. Through experience, I discovered that boolits cast at a temperature that caused light overall frosting were more consistent....far fewer rejects. So, this became the acceptable temperature. If I'm using an alloy higher in tin and antimony, less frosting is necessary. Your alloy recipe would fall in the category.

I now own a RCBS casting thermometer, and using it has only confirmed what I already knew through experience. When using your alloy recipe, I cast at about the same temperatures you use. However, using straight WW alloy, I run it up to 725-750 degrees.

[Marlin Junky]

Straight WW metal needs more heat to promote good cavity fill-out. If I use a little solder, I can back the temp down a bit, but 760F to 780F (depending on the mold I'm using at the time) is a good range for working with a Rowell#2 and straight WW metal. My boolits aren't shinny but are not frosted either and the sprues cut effortlessly.

MJ

[Mavrick]

It might be a NV-thing...using WW+2%, but that's my most used alloy, too. Most of my shooting is with .41 Mag pistols. I use an RCBS bottom-pour pot and either Lyman or RCBS 2-hole molds. I have WWs, tin bars, and a pail of antimony so I can custom-make any alloy I choose, for whatever purpose.
I keep the melt a tad high(I cast outside) and por a mold, set it down, grab a second mold, pour it, then retrieve the first, open it, then fill, and continue. If I'm using a 2-holer, both molds are. If I'm using a 4-holer, both are. Mostly if I'm using an iron mold...both are.
If my WW-bullets are being cast, the bullets will be pretty evenly frosted, or just dull. They fill well due to the 2% added tin.
If I'm using a linotype alloy, the bullets will be shiney, and well filled out due to the high tin-content.
I keep dropping on a folded terrycloth towel, as fast as I can cast at a steady rate. If something changes, I can change with it, as I go along.

[44man]

It is not the temperature to get an even frost that is causing the bad fill out. You have gone TOO hot! Back down the temp until just frosted or into the shiny area. Too much heat is as bad as not enough.
A change in casting pace can change the fill out or appearance so you need to find the exact pace that works at the temp you have the pot set to. Adjust the temp to the pace you are using or change the pace to match the temp.

[Mavrick]

44Man-
Exactly...That's the changes that I do as I go. That's the (dis)advantage of casting outside. Of course, In Reno there's either no wind, or steadfy one.lol

[gregg877]

I'm a rooky boolit caster, and have only been seriously casting for a little over a year. Currently using straight WW's, and initially had cast them so as to not get frosting, but they came out dirty looking, often times did not fill out well, and production sucked. Was advised to turn up the heat on my pot, which is now giving me uniformly frosted boolits, but they fill out perfect, and shoot very well. Also casting from Ingots now instead of just dumping dirty ww's in to the pot and fluxing and skimming(which I did in the beginning becuase I didn't know any better).

I'm using a Lee bottom pour pot, and I have no idea what temp I'm running at, a thermometer is on the to-get list, just haven't had a chance. I cut the sprues by hand wearing a heavy welding glove, which is giving me better results than whacking the sprue cutter with a stick.

Interesting thing happened the other night though, I had the pot a little hotter than usual, and I had cast a few extremely shiney boolits, which as I watched, frosted over, and even had one crack.

Anyway, I digress, despite what I was told early on about frosty boolits being bad, my Sharps is gobbling em up and spitting them at the paper the way I want them to.

Gregg

[BigGun]

gregg877
add about 1-1/2 % tin to your ww's will improve the fillout of your boolits, the tin
can be obtained in 95/5 solder, or buy tin from a welding supply store, the last
tin i purchased 2 yrs ago was $3/lb.also this should help to give your boolits a
better appearance.
later
BigGun

[gregg877]

Big Gun,

Thanks for the tip, what about using 50/50 solder with my wheelweights, Lyman lists that as #2 alloy, is that even a useful thing to experiment with?

My boolits are filling out the mould nice, all of the grooves and the base are nice n' sharp, just frosty looking.

Gregg

[leftiye]

44man hit it. There's a difference between not shiny frosting and Real frosting. Shiny happens when you use linotype straight (alloy all freezes at once), and also when the surface freezes as fast as the lead touches the mold. This is why the shinys exhibit weight variances, the lead is not hitting the mold and freezing uniformly. A little hotter mold, and the surface of the boolit freezes a little slower (voila - not shiny), and the rest of the boolit can fill out before freezing completes. Hotter still mold, and the whole thang is molten after filling the mold. This allows it to shrink (collapse) while cooling, and form large surface crystals on the boolit, and again = weight variations as well as size irregularities. This is true frosting.

The critical issue is mold temp. With a mold heater, you can make frosted boolits with alloy so cold your bottom pour freezes up.

[Bret4207]

I like frosty because I use nearly straight WW, cast in a cold area, cast fast, and I need good fill out. OTH I have a couple long skinny moulds that need to be just the shiny side of frosty for good shooting. They bend as they hit the pad if too hot.

I think operator skill and habits are more a factor than shiny/frosty. It's all in the operator!