Which Lee 303 british dies?

[RogerDat]

My problem is coming up with a shopping list that includes a Lee die kit with the dies that allow me to purchase the least additional dies to have a complete set. I know that some other brands of dies have a strong following as better dies but Lee is in my price range.

I think I understand the basics of the dies for 303, I want to neck size anything fire formed to the chamber for longer case life, I do want to crimp (of some sort seems there are choices there) and I would like to use a powder through die since my measure is a Lee Pro auto disk. While I have a Lee Classic Turret press I may well load these with indexing rod out using as a single stage and hand indexing for the next step.

If I want to consider purchasing 1x fired cases I will need a full length sizing die.

Some of my reading on reloading for this cartridge makes me think one can back off the full length sizing die to only neck size so one does not need the collet die, other information makes me think the collet die is the way to go. But left me wondering about the crimp operation with the collet die.

all this almost makes me think my sanity would be best served by purchasing a Lee Loader but an actual die set is about the same cost. Hopefully someone with experience or knowledge can help me out of my predicament, wife thinks I'm insane enough as it is.

Considered putting this over in the military area but figured a question about dies would get more responses over here.

[starmac]

I may be wrong, but I think you can full length size with the lee collet die as well as neck size, and I'm not sure what the sets are called but the 4 die sets come with the fcd die for crimping. I have mostly rcbs dies, but some from about everybody, and have never really been convinced they are better than lee. If I was starting today, I would likely use lee for most everything, except for m dies, and I think lee even has an answer for that too.

[1johnlb]

My Lee collet set has been excellent. When I bought mine , Lee only made a 3 piece set and I had to buy the fcd separate. The only time I've used the fl die was with range pick up brass. The collet die only sizes the neck, extending case life. If you try backing out the fl die so to only size the neck you'll most likely will still be sizing the case because of the Lee Enfield's very generous chambers.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

GEt the biggest Lee die set you can. You'll find use for all the dies in it.

[pworley1]

I have never had a single problem with any Lee die. The collet set should meet your needs.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK here's what I did when I started loading this round a few months ago.

I wanted Lee Dies so I got both a RGD set and a Collet Die set with the FCD as I wanted to be able to Seat with one Seating Die and Roll Crimp with the other one with the seating stem removed . I do this with a lot of cartridges.

Problem: the Lee seating dies for this cartridge don't roll crimp, however I also had the Factory Crimp Die for this round to crimp jacketed bullets.

2nd Problem nobody has any Jacketed bullets available for this round. So I needed a way to roll crimp cast boolits.

Luckily when I was waiting for my Lee dies to come in I snagged a set of RCBS .303 dies off Ebay for $20 and the guy shipped them the same day and I had them before the Lee dies got to me.

Now I've got 7 reloading dies for the .303 British round

So here's what I do. I necksize with the Lee Collet Die for Cast Boolits, Seat them with a Lee Seating Die and crimp them with the RCBS Seating Die with the stem removed. There is about .001-002 press with the neck sizing die.

For Jacketed bullets I want more press so I will neck size with the FL sizing die backed out and then crimp with the FCD. This is for hunting rounds.

I have about $80 in these 7 dies.

The system I have mapped out above allows me to do anything I want with this cartridge.

As a side note: Buy all your Lee tools thru Titan Reloading as they are a sponsor of this forum and great to deal with anyway. Also slightly less expensive than direct from Lee. Dennis has pretty much anything Lee makes in stock ready to ship and if by chance he doesn't have it in stock he can get it within a few days from Lee who is only 6 or 8 miles across town from him.

Randy

[Ed Barrett]

+1 on the Lee set.

[EDG]

Just do it your way. You have already constrained all the choices to very little choice.

The .303 is sort of a crummy round to load since case life is often only a few rounds. I know there will be people that claim 15 or 20 loads of wimpy cat fart loads but for standard ballistics the life of the brass is poor.

One thing you can do to help is buy new PPU brass. PPU brass is .454 to .455 just in front if the rim. Your chamber will probably measure .460 at the same place. US made FC, WW and RP brass is only about .450 to .451 and will stretch badly when fired. Use the larger PPU brass. Avoid high pressure loads. Use a neck sizer - collet, bushing or conventional die.

Unless you use a very fine grained ball powder a powder through die in that small a caliber is asking for a bridge. That means you get little powder in the bridged case and extra powder in the next case.

Perhaps you need to review the problems of reloading bottle necked rounds on a turret or progressive.
You are trying to minimize cash outlay but you might think about optimizing the process.
You cannot optimize and minimize at the same time.

Have a case prep operation to clean, size, decap, trim, deburr and clean again.
Then a prime, charge, seat and crimp operation.

[RogerDat]

Thanks for the good information but I should have provided some specifics along with specific questions:

Am I missing some choice of dies I should consider or is there a kit/combination of dies that might cover this better? Do I need an expander die for cast or will the sizing take care of that?

Minimum is:
A) . Collet 2 Die Set + Factory Crimp die + Rifle Charging die = $53 - does not provide for FL sizing. I can only reload for rifle that fired the brass.

I think this does it all with a choice of roll crimp with bullet seating or factory crimp as own operation. I’m guessing one can adjust combined bullet seating & roll crimp die to not crimp?
B). PaceSetter 3 Die Set + Collet 2 Die Set + Rifle Charging = $69

I think this also does it all but the Bullet Seating is a dead length bullet seating die, keeping the crimp operation separate. Possibly more precise in terms of seating?
C). RGB 2 Die Set + Collet 2 Die Set + Factory Crimp die + Rifle Charging die + Shell Holder/Length Gauge = $76

So which would you do A , B , or C ? Possibly why you would make that choice. Mostly I guess I'm trying to decide if the dead length seating and factory crimp of C is better than the choice of crimps in B.

What I think I really wanted (no longer generally available) is Deluxe 3 Die rifle set for $30 (FL & Collet & Seating) + Factory Crimp + Rifle Charging which would have covered everything for $54. http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-303B-Deluxe-Rifle/dp/B000NOQJVM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/179-0163432-8138075 Only place I found this it was over $48 which made it more expensive than what I have above.

I have heard that PPU (Prvi Partizan) is a desirable brass to purchase for 303 did not know the reason, just that people said it was good.


Have a case prep operation to clean, size, decap, trim, deburr and clean again.
Then a prime, charge, seat and crimp operation.

By removing the index rod of the turret I will be treating the press as a single stage and moving all the cartridges through a step before moving on to the next step.
Will have to make sure I pay especially close attention to the powder levels when I do a visual inspection after charging if bridging is more of an issue in this type of case.
Thanks for the heads up. Open to suggestions on powder was thinking 2400 (if my order ever gets filled) I do have some Unique on hand and load data for that powder compatible with the 200 gr. bullet I will be loading.

I really don't need (or want) the production speed of a turret for the amount of 303 I will reload, don't know about cat fart loads but I'll shoot more of them with greater comfort at around ~1900 fps than I will at 2400 fps. Just saying easier ways to end up with a bruised shoulder, rectal exam on a mule comes to mind. Less fun than shooting but it does get the bruising all done at once. :smile:

One of these days I hope to pick up either a used O-frame press or a Lee Reloader C-Frame to facilitate de-capping or sizing.
It comes down to love. I love not having my wife pissed at me for spending too much on reloading.
:bigsmyl2:

These are the items I reference in the dies and kits. I have done business with Titan and have been very pleased with both price and service so far. Always use the forum link to Titan to make a purchase, just in case site gets credit for the referral.

Collet 2 Die Set: Neck Sizing and Bullet Seating – No Crimp, No FL sizing $28
http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-reloading-dies/lee-collet-2-die-set/303-british-collet-dies-

Factory Crimp Die: Crimps $12
http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-reloading-dies/lee-factory-crimp-dies/303-british-factory-crimp-die-

Rifle Charging Die: Powder Delivery $12
http://www.titanreloading.com/specialty-reloading-dies/lee-rifle-charging-die

RGB Die Set: FL Sizing and Bullet Seating – No Crimp, No Neck Sizing $19
http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-reloading-dies/lee-rgb-series-dies/303-british-rgb-die-set

PaceSetter 3 Die Set: FL Sizing and Bullet Seating w/roll crimp, and Factory Crimp – No Neck sizing $29
http://www.titanreloading.com/reloading-dies/rifle-pacesetter-die-sets/303-british-3-die-set

Collet Die Only: Neck Sizing $27 Not a stock item can be ordered. ONLY $1 less than collet & seating die set so what is the point.
http://leeprecision.com/collet-necksizing-die-only-complete.html

[1johnlb]

I see your dilemma, Lee changed their lineup and FL / collet die don't come together anymore.

Personally, I would go with option B.
Less the powder thru die
Plus a Lee universal case mouth bell die

That should give you everything you need, single stage. The powder thru is only needed for a progressive loading, progressive loading with pistol powders like unique or 2400 is very dangerous because of the chance of double charges.
Unique is probably only going to get you to about 1500fps or so.
I don't think that the bullet seating rifle die of Lee 's, roll crimps, that's only pistol dies. I maybe wrong thought.

[Mike H]

The Pacesetter 3 die set and the LEE Collet and seater set.Despite what many say about only neck sizing,Full Length sizing is often needed.
Mike.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: the Lee Seating dies for 303 caliber do not have a roll crimping function. I have two of them and believe me they don't.

Please re read post #6

Good source for PPU cases is to buy some Privi Partisan Factory ammo from SGA ammo

http://www.sgammo.com/ at $13-14 per box of 20 that is a hard to beat pricing and I got 5 boxes of 150 gr , and 5 more 180 gr loads just so I could have a base line as to how the gun shoots with factory ammo.

Today I received my Woodleigh 215 gr bullets (finally) from Huntington's. I have been waiting for several months for them to show up.

Ultimately these will be my hunting bullets for this gun, and they will be loaded in some of the once fired PPU cases from the factory ammo I just received, and crimped with the Lee FCD.

I came from Okemos MI.

Randy

[RogerDat]

OK here's what I did when I started loading this round a few months ago.

I wanted Lee Dies so I got both a RGD set and a Collet Die set with the FCD as I wanted to be able to Seat with one Seating Die and Roll Crimp with the other one with the seating stem removed . I do this with a lot of cartridges.

Problem: the Lee seating dies for this cartridge don't roll crimp, however I also had the Factory Crimp Die for this round to crimp jacketed bullets......

So here's what I do. I necksize with the Lee Collet Die for Cast Boolits, Seat them with a Lee Seating Die and crimp them with the RCBS Seating Die with the stem removed. There is about .001-002 press with the neck sizing die. .......

Randy

I see what you mean about post #6 but I took RGD to be a typo of RGB (Really Great Buy) and that die set specifically says it is a dead length seating die with no crimp.

The PaceSetter Die set for 303 says "...The die set also includes a conventional bullet seater and roll crimper."

That is why one of my questions is can I then adjust the seating die so it does not roll crimp? Or as with the RCBS die remove something? Thinking I might want to use the factory crimp die that also comes with the PaceSetter set. But did not want to assume I would not be stuck purchasing a seating die just to avoid the roll crimp to use the factory crimp. Should probably call Titan or Lee and confirm.

It seems that the powder through die is not considered a good idea. I'm using the wrong name, it is the rifle charging die. Essentially using the press as a mount for the powder measure with the powder station staying at the ram. Sounds like folks don't think that is going to work. Or will be prone to inconsistent charges. Maybe I should set up to use charging die on press, then dump powder from case on scale to manually confirm and then re-load and place in the block.

The turret will be de-activated throughout the entire process. The press will be a single stage press when loading this ammo. Bought the turret for that reason, crank out plinking ammo for revolver or remove progression and go manual for more precise and limited runs.

Sounds like I should include the universal expanding die also, thought that might be required or at least a good idea. It's $13 and like they say universal so I can use it with other rounds too.
http://www.titanreloading.com/specialty-reloading-dies/universal-expanding-die

I would really rather be using 2400 or some of the other powders that are recommended for 303 but Unique is what I have, and it does have load data in the manual so for a few rounds to test a bullet mold at 100 yards I'll give it a try even if it is on the low side for velocity. Mostly just want to test casts from an NOE mold to see how they do. I May hit a local gun show later this month, don't think there will be powder (seldom is) but there is a vendor that has been willing to bring powder the next day from his shop. I may get lucky and catch him at the show.

Is this is the RCBS seating die mentioned in post #6 ? It's $26 so if you got a whole set for $20 you did good.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0004415438/303_British_Seater_Die_

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: I do want to know if they make a .303 seating die with the roll crimp as I am going to be pissed as they told me they didn't. If in fact they do have a seating die for .303 that has the roll crimp function, then get that in addition to one regular seating die along with both sizing dies, and the FCD. That way you have everything covered. The Expander Die is also need for loading cast.

With your Lee Turret Press you could use the rifle charging die on one station. seating die in another and crimp die in another. Also for preprocessing cases you could use a neck sizer/deprimer in one station and the expander in another, and a Lee Priming tool in the third.

The hole purpose of using a turret type machine is to cut down the number of times you actually handle the cartridge. This creates efficiency.

There are two distinctly different processes for reloading ammo. Case preparation, and then the actual loading of the round. They usually happen at two different times.

This is what I do with my C&H 444 press. I just have to move the case from station to station.

Here's my setup for loading .308's See pic.,,, the .303 setup only changes the two dies on the right. No reason you couldn't do the same thing with your press.

I drop the powder directly into the pan on the scale and trickle it to exact weight with this device. And then dump the charge into the funnel atop the rifle charging die with the case up in the die. Sometimes I forget to put the case up into the die which results in a mess. I also have an air hose to clean up the mess.

It is actually faster than my Lyman DPS3 and not nearly as finicky.

Randy

[RogerDat]

Well I will give Lee a call for confirmation that the seating die in the PaceSetter die set does a roll crimp as the site text claims and post what I find out. Worst case I buy the Lee RGB 2 die set plus the RCBS seating die to get the roll crimp. Brings the total up to around $100 which is more but not horrid.

I get the point that case prep so the brass is ready are distinct from reloading. It really does sound like I should plan on a powder measuring device separate from the Lee Pro purchased for the turret press. Nice for 38 or 45 LC but it does not seem like it's the way to go for rifle. I'm using a beam scale so already speed is not going to happen if I check load weights every round. I don't mind, not in a hurry.

I don't shoot the Enfield much, or at least have not in the last 1/2 dozen years or so. About the only time I know I'm going to shoot it is once a year my brother-in-law and I get together, he with his Mauser and I provide the Enfield and we make some noise, some paper gets punched and we have a good time. That and once in awhile with the grandkids or nephews it will come out for a few rounds so the older ones can fire a piece of history (and the younger ones can be jealous). I like this rifle, respect its history and want to see if I can improve accuracy with cast and hand loading. More of a project than a production run, figure 50-60 rounds will last me a couple of years. Starting I will probably be loading 5 or so at a time just to see how it works.

Any opinion on 8208 xbr as a powder for Enfield? There is load data for the 180 gr. so I figure should work ok for the 200 gr. Reported to work well in the mini-14 in 223 so I might use it for that. If nothing else I can get that powder.

BTW - Nice bench!

[1johnlb]

Sorry Roger if I aded to the confussion.



That is why one of my questions is can I then adjust the seating die so it does not roll crimp?

If it is a RC die. To adjust the roll crimp on a RC die you just adjust the body of the die in or out of the press. The case lenght is extremly important and all cases must be uniform or you get some crimped more than others. Each time you adjust the crimp you also must readjust the OAL adjustment because it changes when you screw the die body in and out. The die can be adjusted from; no crimp to over crimped. If they get over crimped, it swells the case neck and causes feed issues, and this is the reason many favor the FCDie. Although FCDie is a more consistant, thus more accurate crimper and it doesn't change with case lenght. Some folks including myself don't even crimp on target ammo when carfully loaded or single loaded. But care must be taken that the boolit doesn't push down in the case when loaded. So I would not suggest it for children and other parties.


Any opinion on 8208 xbr as a powder for Enfield? There is load data for the 180 gr. so I figure should work ok for the 200 gr. Reported to work well in the mini-14 in 223 so I might use it for that. If nothing else I can get that powder.

I've never used 8208 but If you have specific data it should go bang. Typically it's safe to shoot lighter grain boolits using loads for heavier boolits but shooting heavier boolits with loads for lighter boolits is dangerous. Lighter powder charges are typically used on heavier boolits. As the boolit weight goes up the powder weight goes down and some powders are not recommended with heavier boolits because of pressure spikes. For a beginner and some of the more exsperenced should always begin with documented load data from a repetable manufacture. If a powder is accurate for one caliber doesn't mean it's accurate for another. I have found that waiting for the right powder to come allong is much better than useing a iffy powder for the moment.


It seems that the powder through die is not considered a good idea. I'm using the wrong name, it is the rifle charging die. Essentially using the press as a mount for the powder measure with the powder station staying at the ram.

I really can't help here and maybe this is where I may have caused confussion. There are many different techniques for charging that is a personal preferrence for most shooter's. The thing here is to have a safe technique to avoid any potentual safty hazards with your charging technique. Many people charge all their cases then with a light inspect every case for level, some use nails or level rods etc. I powder and seat boolits one case at a time. After all cases are prepped, primed, belled, I then weight each charge, grab a inverted case, dump powder, may or may not add dacron then seat my boolit. The main objective is to use a technique that is fail proof for you to besure that you don't double charge a case. A double charge of the wrong powder can cause a life change, before you know what happened. Some people use a powder that will almost fill the case so if a double charge does happen it is very noticable. This is the technique I suggest to be used with grandkids and others that you love ( it's a sound of mind thing)and if your charging on the press. Look for powders like trailboss, h or imr4895. Slow powders that fill the case.

I hope this helps and don't hesatate to continue to ask. It maybe a good idea to start a new thread on specific questions as to get that sometimes confusing mass of answers from a larger crowd with the varing aray of differences of exsperences. Maybe thats worded right.[smilie=s:

[RogerDat]

Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed reply johnlb. And for looking out for me like I was family :-)

Good idea to post that powder question on its own, probably over in the milsurp forum area. I don't have any specific load data for 200 gr. because IMR web site load data does not have anything over 180 gr. for 303 as an option. And my books don't list that powder at all. If I understand the physics, heavier the bullet the longer it takes to get moving, allowing more pressure to build. I won't reload with it if I can't get reliable information specifically for that bullet. I'm ugly enough as it is, won't look better by getting facial surgery done by an exploding round.

I don't mind, and actually like the methodical approach of moving all the rounds through a step, such as trimming, or charging. So I can focus on one operation, then check my work on all the rounds such as you suggest before moving on to the next round. Trimming is not much of an issue for straight walled revolver stuff I have reloaded.

I have had 2# of 2400 on back order since June. The availability of an assortment of powders so one can experiment a bit is not happening still. Web sites have replaced popular powder buy buttons with "Your kidding right?" messages. LGS all have next to nothing. Good to know imr4895 is "fluffy" enough to make visual inspection of charge easier. It was on my list of known loads.

I think you worded that well, the wisdom of the crowd comes in part from hearing all those different experiences. Tempered by the knowledge that just because someone has the skill (or luck) to make something or a technique work don't mean I do, or even a good idea (some folks do some crazy stuff but generally others will alert you to it being crazy). But does provide an opportunity to learn what it is I don't know from the discussion.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: go here and look at what is available on Ebay. or just type in .303 British Reloading dies in the Ebay search. Lots to choose from and some are pretty cheap.

Randy

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R9.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.X.3 03+British+&_nkw=303+british+reloading+dies&_sacat=0

[RogerDat]

Roger: go here and look at what is available on Ebay. or just type in .303 British Reloading dies in the Ebay search. Lots to choose from and some are pretty cheap.

Randy

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R9.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.X.3 03+British+&_nkw=303+british+reloading+dies&_sacat=0

Thanks for the link, it does seem that there are some deals to be had. There are also folks selling items for more than titan reloading sells them new. Have to know the prices of what you want. You know if I could pick up that Lee Classic loader that I saw there for $10 complete.... would get me started on my project of working up a more accurate load.

[brassrat]

I had disaster with crooked seating on my .303. My recollection is that the seating die bullet profile was ok, or fixed. I now need M die, on this caliber and use it on all others. Much better than Lee expansion.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Brassrat: NOE makes plugs for the lee expander die which work like M die expanders. Available in many different sizes.

Also a simple lathe project for those who have a lathe.

Randy

[brassrat]

I have all my calibers covered with M die plugs. Lyman does make it confusing to use and buy these, but I think I got it figured out. I did hack a die body in half with a sawz-all becauce nothing I did would work with anything except rifle cases. It seems they have pistol and rifle plugs but also longer and shorter pistol and rifle plugs plus rifle/ pistol die bodys. They explain little even after calling and ordering plugs. I really love these now and cannot be without them. Thanks for the NOE tip thou

[RogerDat]

Roger: I do want to know if they make a .303 seating die with the roll crimp as I am going to be pissed as they told me they didn't. If in fact they do have a seating die for .303 that has the roll crimp function, then get that in addition to one regular seating die along with both sizing dies, and the FCD. That way you have everything covered. The Expander Die is also need for loading cast......

Randy

Got confirmation that Lee STOPPED including the seating die with roll crimp around the beginning of the year and went to the dead length seating die which does not crimp. It was a failure to update web site when the stock on hand ran out that had the web site showing the wrong information.

Sigh. <- written in the bummed font.

On the plus side I snagged 480 rounds of Greek milsurp 303 ball for a good price. Boxer primed brass cheaper than buying unprimed brass. I guess when Greece was going bankrupt and looking for something to sell....

[RogerDat]

It's down to a Hornady or RCBS to replace the Lee PaceSetter either will provide FL sizing and bullet seating with roll crimp. Either one is $35

One better than the other in your opinion and why? Not trying to start a flame war, better is subjective but I can probably make a more informed choice with some additional perspective on what folks like or don't like about these dies.

Does anyone know if both Hornady or RCBS seating/crimp die can be used just to crimp without the seating? Earlier post mentioned it for RCBS, is it easy? Function well? Lee Collet set has a dedicated bullet seating die, I tend to think handling the seating and crimping in two separate operations might be more precise. Or at least I won't have to be getting two aspects of the same die correct and that would be more likely to be precise when done by me.

Looks like it will be:
Hornady/RCBS FL sizing 2 die set + Lee Collet 2 die set + Expander Die = $76

If I wanted to also have the Lee factory crimp die in addition to roll crimp that would bring it up to $88.
An additional 4 hole plate being another $11. Call it $100 for what I think is a complete set?

Been watching EBay but so far nothing used is looking good. And the new dies are more expensive on EBay than they are at Midway or Titan or MidSouth.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I just know you're gonna succeed.

Randy

[RogerDat]

I just know you're gonna succeed.

Randy
Thanks for the encouragement.
Not being afraid to change the objective to fit reality probably helps ;-)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Reality can be "demanding."

Randy

[RogerDat]

Call to Lee Precision resolved the questions.


Factory Crimp Die for rifle will supply a roll crimp and does not have the sizing ring that swages oversized lead bullets. Sizing ring only used in straight walled pistol FCD.
Adjusted for light crimp the FCD for rifle should be fine with lead cast of larger diameter.
Rifle charging die is probably too small for 303 which as a few thousands over max diameter and might not engage drop tube properly.
Pro Auto disk even with double disk set will probably only cover about half the possible charge weights for a large rifle cartridge. Not the way to go.
Do need the universal expander die for cast, jacketed the chamfer applied when you size the case should be fine.
The "Deluxe" die sets for rifle were dropped because customers were getting confused. Rifle Deluxe die set was different dies than Pistol Deluxe (3 dies vs. 4 dies).
Ultimate rifle die sets now offered cover the FL and neck sizing, but not all calibers are offered, 303 B is one they do not offer in Ultimate set. Did add the 6.5 creedmore this year.


That call was a whole lot more direct than reading through a bunch of posts on the FCD which mostly just argued about them being good or bad, with just a rare post that said rifle and pistol versions were "apples and oranges" or "different".

So final shopping list (with rounded prices) is:
PaceSetter Die set - FL sizing, Seating, and Crimp. $29
http://www.titanreloading.com/reloading-dies/rifle-pacesetter-die-sets/303-british-3-die-set
Collet 2 Die set - Neck sizing and extra seating die. Collet die not offered on it's own. I sent an email to Titan to ask about that. $28 (collet dies alone for other calibers are $20)
http://www.titanreloading.com/rifle-reloading-dies/lee-collet-2-die-set/303-british-collet-dies-
Universal Expander Die - expand the case neck for cast. $13
http://www.titanreloading.com/specialty-reloading-dies/universal-expanding-die

PaceSetter + Collet 2 die set + Expander = $70 If I can get the collet die on its own for $20 that price goes down to $62

Need a powder measure so:
Lee Perfect Powder Measure at $20 or Lyman 55 at $85 Hmmm. That one I'm going to have to give the $20 lee a try.

Could get dies in RCBS, Lyman and Hornady but that was running $80 and since no one has chimed in with why I want those over the Lee dies I'll go with the Lee. Even though some folks really like the other brands not having any specific reason to spend more decided me not to.

Oh one other side note from the phone call Lee is coming out with a new drum powder measure in 2015 provides two major features. Adjustable down to 0 grains which is below the PPM 2 grain lower limit and is designed to work with the finer powders now available that tend to leak out of powder measures.

[Mohillbilly]

You should look here as well to do your new HPX right . http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?135910-303-British-O-Ring-Load Then neck size , or send in three/four cases to Lee and have a custom size die for that rifle . Your brass will last longer ! check out this as well . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur470t-ldAo

[RogerDat]

Something just went "click" in my brain with regard to neck sizing with that suggestion to get the dies made by Lee to fit the rifle. If one is using an oversized cast bullet how does that work if the brass is neck sized to the "standard" size?

Does expanding flare allow the larger diameter bullet to be forced in?

[gpidaho]

Roger: I really like the simple little Lee loaders for sizing brass like 303Brit and 762x54R. Great for the cals. where overworking the brass is a concern. Kinda like a poor mans Wilson hand die. I've spent lots more money on comp. dies that work no better than these handy little kits. Mostly I just use the sizer, but for fun I sometimes build finished rounds with them. Even if you opt for other dies these are a good addition to your loading deck. GP

[gpidaho]

Roger: I use the Lyman 31cal. M-die. I don't own the Lee standard dies in 303Brit, mine are RCBS. On my Lee 762x54R dies I had to hone out the bridge in the middle of the seating die to keep it from swaging the boolits or sticking them in the die when over .313 . Not at all hard to do and something you may need to do to seat cast with yours. gp

[RogerDat]

Does anyone know if the Pacific Seating die does a roll crimp? Have a line on a used pair that are FL size/de-capping & seating die. Seller does not know if seating die does a roll crimp so I assume it is being flipped but at $25 including shipping it does save some money over new hornady 2 die set at $35+shipping.

I like that deal if it provides the roll crimp that the current hornady or rcbs seating dies would.

[RogerDat]

GP
So the 31cal M-die gives a slightly oversized neck or enough belling that it works well for cast?

I do see where Lee has collet neck sizing die without size specified that can be ordered - I think it is worth a call to see if the price is decent on one sized to what I want to load.

Lee Loaders are just cool! But at nearly the same price as press dies it will have to be an "addition" unless I find a good deal on a used one. Definitely on my someday list.

[gpidaho]

Roger: I for one just don't see how you can effectually load lead boolits without M-dies or other types of over standard neck expanders. Just too much distortion with standard ones meant for jacketed bullets. And yes, I own the Lee factory crimp die and believe it to be a "Must have" Their under $15 and like a lot of Lee tools work very well for me. GP

[fast ronnie]

OK here's what I did when I started loading this round a few months ago.

I wanted Lee Dies so I got both a RGD set and a Collet Die set with the FCD as I wanted to be able to Seat with one Seating Die and Roll Crimp with the other one with the seating stem removed . I do this with a lot of cartridges.

Problem: the Lee seating dies for this cartridge don't roll crimp, however I also had the Factory Crimp Die for this round to crimp jacketed bullets.

2nd Problem nobody has any Jacketed bullets available for this round. So I needed a way to roll crimp cast boolits.

Luckily when I was waiting for my Lee dies to come in I snagged a set of RCBS .303 dies off Ebay for $20 and the guy shipped them the same day and I had them before the Lee dies got to me.

Now I've got 7 reloading dies for the .303 British round

So here's what I do. I necksize with the Lee Collet Die for Cast Boolits, Seat them with a Lee Seating Die and crimp them with the RCBS Seating Die with the stem removed. There is about .001-002 press with the neck sizing die.

For Jacketed bullets I want more press so I will neck size with the FL sizing die backed out and then crimp with the FCD. This is for hunting rounds.

I have about $80 in these 7 dies.

The system I have mapped out above allows me to do anything I want with this cartridge.

As a side note: Buy all your Lee tools thru Titan Reloading as they are a sponsor of this forum and great to deal with anyway. Also slightly less expensive than direct from Lee. Dennis has pretty much anything Lee makes in stock ready to ship and if by chance he doesn't have it in stock he can get it within a few days from Lee who is only 6 or 8 miles across town from him.

Randy

jacketed bullets are available through Graf and sons. I bought privi for about $25/100 in bulk in December. .3115 diameter

[RogerDat]

jacketed bullets are available through Graf and sons. I bought privi for about $25/100 in bulk in December. .3115 diameter

I'm working toward loading cast but thanks for the tip.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: pretty sure those Pacific dies will Roll Crimp. NOT Roll Crimping for a rifle seating die is the exception, not the rule.

I would try loading some jacketed bullets first before you try cast, as you will get the hang of using the tools without having to cope with all the idiosyncrasies of cast boolits in addition to learning the tools as well.

One step at a time is the best approach. I'd get that set of Pacific dies and load some ammo and go shoot. Then after I got the hang of it, I'd start looking for moulds and get into that.

Reloading Ammo and Casting Boolits are two entirely different endeavors.

It appears that you are trying to get everything before doing anything. You can do everything you will need with the Pacific Dies and maybe an M Die down the road. First you need to load some ammo then worry about completing your tool set.

One thing you may not fully understand is that a normal Full Length Sizing Die First squishes the case mouth down and then as the case is removed from the die, the Expander Ball on the end of the Decapping Rod opens it back up to a larger size. You can Neck size a .303 case by using a regular FL Sizing Die backed out until it doesn't push the shoulder of the case back and then size the neck to a specific size with and M die after the fact.

The M die is only an Expander and opens the case mouth to a different diameter (of your choosing). You may be able to load acceptable ammo with cast boolits using just the Pacific Dies. A lot of Cast Boolits have been loaded without specialty equipment. To say you must have and M Die of a specific size or your ammo is not going to work right is foolish and ignores the fact that every gun is an entity unto itself and what works well in one gun may not work at all in another.

I have one M Die, it is for .30 cal. I have never used it.

Get the Pacific Dies, load some jacketed bullets, learn how to use the tools and then branch out as necessary to achieve the results you want.

Randy

[RogerDat]

I do sort of like to have my ducks in a row before getting started. I also hate to buy stuff I don't really need. I let the seller know I'll take the pacific dies.

Most new brass comes with an admonishment to size before loading so I know the pacific set will get used. I'm not casting for 303 yet but I have some cast to try out with an eye toward seeing if I should get that mold.

[gunwonk]

Looks like I'm late to the party, but I'm going to put my foot in anyway. :-)

For full length sizing .303 British, I like the RCBS X-die. It does the usual squeeze & shoulder bump, and also pushes back on the case mouth to un-stretch the case. (I can actually feel this happening.) You might have to trim once, to get things started, but then you never have to trim again.

I shoot .303 in a P-14. Don't know whether it's the solid action, or the X-die (or both), but I've got .303 cases older than my truck, and still going strong.

(FWIW, I also take out the X-die's expander ball & decapping pin, and use an M-die.)