Tempted to join the missing

[dtknowles]

Some members have left or don't post much anymore and other have been banned. Some have decided to just post there experiences elsewhere.

My temptation is to let some members know how I feel about them in terms that the forum considers offensive and let the chips fall where they may.

I could almost care less about losing the ability to share my cast bullet experiences since when I have it has been underwhelming.

The people who are breaking new ground don't post much here anymore. Some people, myself included answer newbie questions but I am not learning anything but that some members are close minded reactionary jerks.

Tim

[MaryB]

Every forum has them, nothing new. Ignore them like I do.

[gandydancer]

and Tim most of them wouldn't know how to empty a bucket of swill with out reading the directions written on the bottom of said bucket. There is a great bunch of very talented people on here willing to help and share with all they know. and then there's the rest. some one once said you can always tell an expert but you can't tell them much. ignore them! if they get to you they've done their job.

[dtknowles]

I know they would enjoy getting call out and criticized. The stupid things they say and the endless need to correct them so that they don't put stupid ideas in other people heads.

Just the other day someone posted that lawyers deducted there pro bono work from their income for tax purposes. The stupidity that is displayed on this forum reminds me of the people who shoot up road signs. I want to go somewhere where stupid people don't go. If I get banned I can't come back even if I am tempted.

Tim

[Catshooter]

I want to go somewhere where stupid people don't go.
Tim

Good luck with that. People are people. Are they at fault or is it your inability to tolerate the foibles of others? Many here tolerate you. You could tolerate the many. There are always going to be some who carp: bitter hearts are easy to find if you concentrate on them.

Instead maybe concentrate on the majority who are decent, helpful people just usually trying to get along in life. And life is hard. Cut them and yourself some slack.


Cat

[GoodOlBoy]

Tim,
I know sometimes I can rub people the wrong way without even meaning to, and I know that so far I am not in the TRUE experimenting stage. But this board and it's members, including you, have helped me immeasurably since I joined not that long ago. I had learned alot by lurking for a long time before I joined, but I have learned so much more (despite the jerks who sometimes rise up) since I have started asking questions. Someday maybe I will even be to that stage where I can post an experiment, or a new technique that inspires others. Even if I don't, I enjoy what I am doing, and what others are doing. Don't let the bad ones run you off. You are too good for that, and we have lost too many good folks already.

My 2 cents

GoodOlBoy

[No_1]

Tim,

We don't ban members for speaking their mind but we do ban them for breaking the rules. Based on your past infractions it appears you seem to enjoy insulting members and if you do so again you will receive another infraction. If you are not happy here leave just as those before you have done. What is gained if you make a stink on your way out?

[leftiye]

Let him (and that is not you - or me) that is without sin cast the first stone. You seem plagued with things to crusade against.

[dragon813gt]

Oh the joy, another one of these threads. In for the :popcorn:

[Lloyd Smale]

you've got to have some gonads to make it on any site on the internet. One thing about opinions is when I voice mine I can be about assured that someone doesn't agree with them. Bottom line is you need to know this isn't a public owned forum. there is an owner and its his fourm and he makes the rules and if you want to post on it you have to follow those rules. Ive been here a long time.

I was here from about the start and most here will tell you that I speak my mind and sometimes do it bluntly. If speaking your mind or disagreeing with the owner or moderators got you banned id have been booted a long time ago. Basicaly you have your choise go by the rules or leave. I can guarantee you one thing though. theres still more bullet casting knowledge available here then anywhere else on the internet or anywhere else period. Just the fact that you think you have nothing else to learn when it comes to casting is a big red flag. Ive been casting longer then most here and have casted more then most and I never stop learning. Sure it comes slower now but ive found if I pay attention to even someone I disagree with some of what hes saying is probably correct and maybe once in a while I actually learn something from them.

If you think your learnings done try comparing your knowledge to someone like Glen Fryxell, Rob Applegate, or even veral smith. Youll find you come up lacking. If your idea of having fun is picking someone's posts apart or don't have the shoulders to be told by someone that they disagree with you or just like arguing then this isn't the place for you. yes this place has changed. For the first few years it consisted of a small group of knowledgeable casters that knew that there was other opinions then there own and all of us learned from being open to that idea. then we started getting beginners and for the most part they were good guys that were grateful for the help. then the winers and the know it all's showed up and the nice thing is this fourm comes with an ignore button so I cant see your problem. If someones bothering you or makes you angry or wastes time with this kind of **** push the button. I just did[smilie=s:

[ubetcha]

Ive been casting for a good many years, but it wasn't until found this site, that I started to understand how to do it better. Everyone here has made it easier to do and I thank EVERYONE. Yes there are people that have rubbed me the wrong way on some of my posts and others posts, but one seem to forget that the sound(if one wants to call it that) of a written word or sentence is different than a spoken word or sentence and could very well be taken badly, so I just take everything in stride and try not to take it as an insult or personal attack. There is truly excellent knowledge here that I hate to see leave. I personally do not have the knowledge or time to experiment to add much. I do when I can though

[Wayne Smith]

There is a back button on the top of my page. For me it is a mental discipline to use it. I learned a long time ago that I cannot change anyone but me. And I have my earned doctorate and 30+ years as a Clinical Psychologist! If I can't the rest of you guys don't have a chance!

An open mind is a wonderful thing and I love pouring into it. A closed mind is a mirror - I only end up seeing what I hate in myself.

[gbrown]

Wayne the Shrink--well put, especially the last statement. I've been called out, insulted, condemned for misleading people and posting misinformation, not by Mods, but by members. I post what I have done and experienced, all I can say. I can't help others that just gotta stomp on members for their own gratification. Up-bringing, environment, genes? Can't say why they do what they do. I just keep plugging on, doing what I do. Yes, there are some irritating people in this world and on this forum--as with everything, it has changed in the short time I've been here. However, there is knowledge here and a world of good 1st class members. Want to learn something about reloading or casting? Want to find someone who is expanding the knowledge base? You will find it here. You just gotta accept that with the wheat, there will be some chaff, as well as some rocks. You just gotta learn to separate the good from the bad.

[FISH4BUGS]

My temptation is to let some members know how I feel about them in terms that the forum considers offensive and let the chips fall where they may.
........but that some members are close minded reactionary jerks.

Tim

Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. You described yourself perfectly.

[twc1964]

I have been casting now for a measly 8 months. Everything i have learned i did so on this forum. Many folks have helped me on this journey and i thank them. Sure, some folks here can be a bit brash or pushy but on the whole, folks here are helpful and fair. Imay not like some of the posts i read but i have the choice whether or not to read any further. I ignore folks who get downright rude and so should everyone else. When you dont feed the strays, they tend to wander elsewheres. Ymmv

[Finster101]

Seems to me you like to stir the pot but don't deal well when some gets splashed on you. I learned a long time ago if you are going to dish it out you had better learn to take it. Some never learn.

[NoAngel]

. I want to go somewhere where stupid people don't go. If I get banned I can't come back even if I am tempted.

Tim

Theres more than one member that started their own PRIVATE forum.
Try reaching out to a few of your friends that don't post here anymore. Most of them didn't dissappear into thin air, they just moved on to places with better BS filters. Private forums let the creator carefully meter the amount of çrap allowed to enter.

[Cowpoke]

Had a wise older friend give me some advice once in the form of a question after he over heard a conversation I was having with a guy at the feed store.

He asked me " If your arguing with an idiot, what's he doing?"

[rush1886]

Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. You described yourself perfectly.

Thru life's journey, we all encounter a few folks who's self opinion seems somewhat elevated above the opinions of those around them. My parents were prone to admonish me to say nothing, if I couldn't say something good. In an effort to say something good, I'll agree with FISH4BUGS.

[waksupi]

Tim,

We don't ban members for speaking their mind but we do ban them for breaking the rules. Based on your past infractions it appears you seem to enjoy insulting members and if you do so again you will receive another infraction. If you are not happy here leave just as those before you have done. What is gained if you make a stink on your way out?

Just as a bit of board trivia, fewer than 1% of board members have ever received even one infraction.

[Hamish]

I'm wondering if in real life he's able to manage his lifestyle so that he only interacts with people who he likes and like him.

I haven't quite figured out how to accomplish that without going to live in an old van down by the river,,,,,,,,,seems like one of the compromises of being a human is having to deal with all sorts. There are a couple of folks here that I would just as soon bury my foot up their backsides, and a few that IMHO need a slap upside the back of the head, but you don't poop on your pop tart just because it's not your favorite flavor,,,,,,,(I will also guarentee there are at least twenty who think I'm a total jag, it's just the law of percentages)

Everyone here goes through an evolution of eventually figuring out that CB is not internet nirvana, it's not perfect, and all its inhabitants are not who we build up the mental images of. Its real people, in real life, just gathered for a common pursuit. And, at the point where reality impinges upon the shiny mental image we have of the forum, each of us has to decide if we are going to stick around and work toward rectifying perceived shortcomings of certain areas of the knowledge base, forum, or member(s). DT has spent too much time in the Pit, the shiny is wearing off and he's approaching that point.

Thats what most of these threads are about.

[Hamish]

Had a wise older friend give me some advice once in the form of a question after he over heard a conversation I was having with a guy at the feed store.

He asked me " If your arguing with an idiot, what's he doing?"

[ LIKE ] :bigsmyl2:

[Lloyd Smale]

that van down by the river was probably the funniest thing they ever did on Saturday night live.
I'm wondering if in real life he's able to manage his lifestyle so that he only interacts with people who he likes and like him.

I haven't quite figured out how to accomplish that without going to live in an old van down by the river,,,,,,,,,seems like one of the compromises of being a human is having to deal with all sorts. There are a couple of folks here that I would just as soon bury my foot up their backsides, and a few that IMHO need a slap upside the back of the head, but you don't poop on your pop tart just because it's not your favorite flavor,,,,,,,(I will also guarentee there are at least twenty who think I'm a total jag, it's just the law of percentages)

Everyone here goes through an evolution of eventually figuring out that CB is not internet nirvana, it's not perfect, and all its inhabitants are not who we build up the mental images of. Its real people, in real life, just gathered for a common pursuit. And, at the point where reality impinges upon the shiny mental image we have of the forum, each of us has to decide if we are going to stick around and work toward rectifying perceived shortcomings of certain areas of the knowledge base, forum, or member(s). DT has spent too much time in the Pit, the shiny is wearing off and he's approaching that point.

Thats what most of these threads are about.

[Hamish]

that van down by the river was probably the funniest thing they ever did on Saturday night live.

LIB, I just checked youtube, hadn't remembered Farley saying that. I came by it many, many years ago on an antique woodworking tools forum, as in the proclivity for wanting too many toys could result in ending up living in an old van down by the river. Sound familiar?

[dtknowles]

There is a back button on the top of my page. For me it is a mental discipline to use it. I learned a long time ago that I cannot change anyone but me. And I have my earned doctorate and 30+ years as a Clinical Psychologist! If I can't the rest of you guys don't have a chance!

An open mind is a wonderful thing and I love pouring into it. A closed mind is a mirror - I only end up seeing what I hate in myself.

It might just be that I don't understand what you are trying to say but was not the point of your education and practice based on the premise that therapy can change people for the better? I know I can and have changed people and made a positive difference in their lives. You say you can't change people, it seems you picked the wrong vocation. If you don't consider helping people change themselves, you changing them, then we would be arguing semantics.

Tim

[M-Tecs]

It's the old adage "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." All the advice in the world does no good until the person is willing to accept it and is willing to change themselves.

[Cornbread]

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. - Proverbs 26:4

[dtknowles]

Just as a bit of board trivia, fewer than 1% of board members have ever received even one infraction.

I have one infraction and you get the credit. I also have one warning. I guess I am a serial offender ;-)

Not addressing this to waksupi but I can't take the time right now to give you each a personal response.

I know that I have much to learn both about dealing with people and making better ammo. I also know that the only mistake that people who don't do anything will make is just that, they don't do anything. If you never or rarely post or post me too, you will not get any infractions.

I do not consider my irritation with bad behavior or stupidity a flaw. It should make you at least a little mad and sad to see a road side sign shot full of holes.

I used harsh a tone just the other day to scold a guy in the locker room who was just a couple feet away from the suit spin dryer, wringing the water out of his suit on the floor. I apologized for my tone but not for trying to correct him. Sometimes the stupidity is so surprising that I over react.

I am not going to apologize for starting this thread, some of you mentioned the Deja Vu nature of this thread. It is my way of venting, thank you for bearing with my rant.

I posted my last weekend range session over in the NOE forum, it was relevant to the XCB thread that is dead here. I will repost it here but we hardly ever get range reports here, I posted one range report with pictures and I got zero responses, not even a thank you for sharing. Maybe the powder coating guys are putting up range reports, I don't read many of those threads, it is just not something I am following.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I'm wondering if in real life he's able to manage his lifestyle so that he only interacts with people who he likes and like him.

I haven't quite figured out how to accomplish that without going to live in an old van down by the river,,,,,,,,,seems like one of the compromises of being a human is having to deal with all sorts. There are a couple of folks here that I would just as soon bury my foot up their backsides, and a few that IMHO need a slap upside the back of the head, but you don't poop on your pop tart just because it's not your favorite flavor,,,,,,,(I will also guarentee there are at least twenty who think I'm a total jag, it's just the law of percentages)

Everyone here goes through an evolution of eventually figuring out that CB is not internet nirvana, it's not perfect, and all its inhabitants are not who we build up the mental images of. Its real people, in real life, just gathered for a common pursuit. And, at the point where reality impinges upon the shiny mental image we have of the forum, each of us has to decide if we are going to stick around and work toward rectifying perceived shortcomings of certain areas of the knowledge base, forum, or member(s). DT has spent too much time in the Pit, the shiny is wearing off and he's approaching that point.

Thats what most of these threads are about.

Probably an accurate assessment on all counts. I do almost totally associate with people I like and who like me both at work and at home. I only went back to work because some people I like needed my help on a project. Trips to the shooting range can be a challenge because, well, there are other people there. Sometimes the Rangemaster is inattentive or just does not really know how to do his job or some of the other shooters do bad stuff, sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident. I have been tempted to buy a place where I can make my own range but that is not just because of the people. The range is only 100 yards and only open to the public on weekends. As far as the Pit goes, yes I go there a lot. I learn a lot about people and get leads on news stories but I should find an alternative. This will sound conceited but I think without my voice in the Pit certain points of view would be over represented. Of course that would not matter if only those who post there are reading the posts but if a lot of people lurk there some balance and fact checking is needed.

Tim

[TXGunNut]

If I didn't enjoy my time here I wouldn't bother logging in. I've learned to not let folks irritate me, I always figure that's their intent and if I get irritated they win. I don't want to see anyone leave but sometimes we need a break or a change of perspective.

[FISH4BUGS]

Just as a bit of board trivia, fewer than 1% of board members have ever received even one infraction.

I am a member of that 1% club. I learned my lesson very quickly. I actually appealed the infraction and after a "hearing" had it rescinded.....but the lesson was learned nonetheless. I have learned to just ignore the keyboard commandos that do nothing but complain.....a skill that I have not regretted learning.

[ShooterAZ]

If I didn't enjoy my time here I wouldn't bother logging in. I've learned to not let folks irritate me, I always figure that's their intent and if I get irritated they win. I don't want to see anyone leave but sometimes we need a break or a change of perspective.

Same here, I don't take things personally and shrug them off. If someone continually annoys me, I put them on my ignore list. By the same token, if you are abrasive to people you can expect the same in return.

[BrassMagnet]

To start this post off, I have been casting for over 50 years. When I was new to this forum I got a belittling PM from a member because I am fascinated with Louverin boolit moulds. He stated "the science is decided and the only good boolits are nose bore rider designs and all of the other designs are junk" or something similar.
I was offended, but I kept my mouth firmly shut.
I was a big time caster for many years before I found this forum. I was the Big Frog of casting. I was the expert everyone went to.
Then I joined this forum and I found out I was the Big Frog in the Littlest Pond!
Now that I have established my absolute lack of credentials, I will cover my theory of boolits and then I will explain some of the issues I have with my theories!
Nose bore riding boolits are awesome when they are a perfect fit for your barrel. Louverin boolits are more tolerant of varying bore diameters. Size boolits to .001" over nominal caliber, i.e. size to .358 in a .357. If that doesn't give the desired results try .002 over and then .000 over, and finally try .001 under. Boolits generally perform better with minimal distortion in the sizing, loading, or chambering process. Try different lubes. That could be it! I prefer heavy for caliber boolits. I mean since I can't push booits to the velocity of bullets I might as well throw a heavier slug to make up for it.
Now for some of the issues. I have fired 311299 in two Ishapore Enfields (.308/7.62x51) and the boolits were way high at 100 yards. Why? probably too slow and recoil had longer to act. Now I will be trying 311414 to see if I can come closer to M80 ball velocities.
I have recently been told fast twist barrels may destroy boolits in flight and destroy accuracy when the velocities reach certain velocities. Most of my better rifles are very fast twist! A 1 in 7 twist .223 rifle can frequently destroy a Hornady 75 grain HPBT before it reaches a target at 200 or 300 yards. Why didn't that occur to me with respect to cast boolits? Not a clue here!
So what am I really saying here? I am saying there are many theories on how to get cast boolits to shoot well and every theory can be proved with one rifle and disproved with another. Some theories work better with some types of rifles. Rifles known for consistent tolerances may well benefit from a nose bore riding mould where rifles known for inconsistent tolerances may well benefit from a Louverin mould design. So, there are many theories. Try them out until you find one that works for your rifle.
Also remember you may have been a real big frog in your little pond, but now you are in the big pond and there are much bigger frogs around now.
Never forget to use Wayne's back button. You can type your scalding reply, admire it, refine it, and then consider "should I really send this?" and then hit the back button. You feel better and no one else is offended.

[dragon813gt]

Just as a bit of board trivia, fewer than 1% of board members have ever received even one infraction.

I received one for swearing. Well it's a word that I don't consider a swear word and it was asterisked out. Lesson learned and I've made sure to not swear here. Real life, different story ;)

Stop spending so much time in the pit. I know I have and I'm better for it. It's the same people saying the same things over and over anyway. After awhile you know what their response is going to be. Becomes rather boring an sad :(

[Bored1]

I received one for swearing. Well it's a word that I don't consider a swear word and it was asterisked out. Lesson learned and I've made sure to not swear here. Real life, different story ;)

Stop spending so much time in the pit. I know I have and I'm better for it. It's the same people saying the same things over and over anyway. After awhile you know what their response is going to be. Becomes rather boring an sad :(

^^^^ I agree. Take breaks from the PIT!!!! The tendency seems to be to forget the rest of the forum is there, and continue highly emotional discussions instead of enjoying the rest of the forum. I was questioning why I would spend so much time with some of the people I was talking to, then realized its the PIT!!!! Took a break from it and remembered why I came to this forum in the first place, and how it has now given me my 2 closest friends and the people I get the most advice from!

And anytime you get to irritated look for a post from LoveLife or Btroj. Generally you'll find quite a few to make you laugh!

[Love Life]

Just take a break. Your posts are usually well written and make sense. I read what you write as it helps me learn. When I get frustrated, I just take a break and go hang out on another forum for a couple days.

As it stands, this forum is still a cut above the rest in knowledge, testing, and passing on information.

Stick around and slug it out, as I'd hate to see you leave.

[williamwaco]

I have said this before and it bears repeating here.

There are two types of people on these boards.

1) People who shoot a lot and cast a lot and who have learned a lot and know that they don't know it all.

2) People who have read a lot and know everything there is to know about everything.

It doesn't take long to assign the members to their correct category.

Then you read the ones you respect and ignore the others.




“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

... Samuel Langhorne Clemens

[dtknowles]

Just take a break. Your posts are usually well written and make sense. I read what you write as it helps me learn. When I get frustrated, I just take a break and go hang out on another forum for a couple days.

As it stands, this forum is still a cut above the rest in knowledge, testing, and passing on information.

Stick around and slug it out, as I'd hate to see you leave.

I also read and appreciate what you write and I am certain I have learned a few things from you. I am not leaving, I was just venting and thanks to everyone who read this thread and double thanks to all that responded, even the ones that said don't let the door hit you on the way out. The title of the thread is an exaggeration, it is more I had a fleeting thought of leaving and I fanaticized about telling a few people off and what I might say.

I certainly have some more to learn, I have not shot a sub MOA 5 shot group at 100 yards with a cast bullet yet. I came real close last weekend with bullets given to me by a member here. He has a mould and size die that I don't and that combination is better than what I have tried before. After 40 years of casting I still cast a lot of rejects. I have handicapped myself a little bit as I don't like accumulating a lot of stuff and I hate selling or trashing stuff I don't use so it takes me a while to decide to get new moulds and equipment. This forum helps me keep from buying stuff that will collect dust.

Tim

[williamwaco]

I also read and appreciate what you write and I am certain I have learned a few things from you. I am not leaving, I was just venting and thanks to everyone who read this thread and double thanks to all that responded, even the ones that said don't let the door hit you on the way out. The title of the thread is an exaggeration, it is more I had a fleeting thought of leaving and I fanaticized about telling a few people off and what I might say.

I certainly have some more to learn, I have not shot a sub MOA 5 shot group at 100 yards with a cast bullet yet. I came real close last weekend with bullets given to me by a member here. He has a mould and size die that I don't and that combination is better than what I have tried before. After 40 years of casting I still cast a lot of rejects. I have handicapped myself a little bit as I don't like accumulating a lot of stuff and I hate selling or trashing stuff I don't use so it takes me a while to decide to get new moulds and equipment. This forum helps me keep from buying stuff that will collect dust.

Tim

Oh GEE! You can't do that?

I do that all the time!


Well occasionally!


Well actually . . . once.


Oh by the way . . . it was actually three shots.


And it only took me 60 years to do it.

[Col4570]

It is worth reading the "Desiderata",Check it out those who do not know it.

[beezapilot]

I've learned an awful lot from this forum, and seen a lot that is awful. I'm not afraid to ask questions and am not offended when I get told to read the stickies, above all I am thankful when I get a courtious response to an inquiry. Just because I read a sticky, does not mean that I understood it, nor that it was 100% applicable to my situation, so questions get asked. I love when someone replies to a question with "Hey, read the sticky", really? Which one?? No link?? The search engine on this site is OK, but not great. I've had people tell me that the reloading manuals are wrong and full of bad advice, and the advice they gave me I might try- at my own risk, and undertanding that risk, but then again I might not. Either way, my feelings are not hurt.

My learning curve seems to be leveling off, but not my tolerance for questions and comments. I've spoken to several members on the phone, received lenghtly E-mail solutions / answers to questions, and met a few members. I'm a better caster / reloader because of their efforts, and I appreciate it.

So when members post that they are going to leave, it is usually because they are "unappreciated". To me- "Thank You"s are to be done via PM unless there is actual information that you can add BECAUSE you tired something. Filling up the forum with "Thank You's, "Bump", "+1", just fills up a forum-fine for the PIT, oftimes makes it harder to find information.

I guess what I'm getting at is I hate to see people who are smarter than me leaving the forum, one less resource. But if ya gotta go... ya gotta go.

[geargnasher]

Oh GEE! You can't do that?

I do that all the time!


Well occasionally!


Well actually . . . once.


Oh by the way . . . it was actually three shots.


And it only took me 60 years to do it.

Smart aleck comments like that is why nobody who is actually doing what you just ridiculed bothers to post about it anymore.

Gear

[Bad Water Bill]

This message is hidden because dtknowles is on your ignore list (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist).


He is one of only 2 members that have worked hard enough to EARN this status.

Every time he shows up I know we are in for confrontations.

[williamwaco]

It is worth reading the "Desiderata",Check it out those who do not know it.

That is good advice!

[TenTea]

That is good advice!

Let us place it here...


Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.
© Max Ehrmann 1927

[1_Ogre]

If you are so underwhelmed with getting a pat on the back from offering assistance or help to others that need it, then you are on the wrong track here. I have been casting for over 50yrs now and I don't hesitate to share my knowledge with anyone seeking it. Yes, in the past others have ignored it and did it "THEIR" way, and later came back and said they wished they had listened the first time.
Personally, I can't even grasp the concept of what you are complaining about, other than the fact that you must be the one and only best at what every it is you do, and you expect praise and acalades from everyone that reads your "POSTS". Sorry, but in this world it don't work like that. I learned a long time ago that the only person that can put me down and make me feel bad is "ME", others opinions and comments matter not to me.
Maybe you should look in a mirror sometime and try and remember back when you got started and wouldn't it have been nice to have the help available then that there is now in this Chat Room. Something to think about, huh?

[Char-Gar]

Life gets allot easier when a fellow figures out that nothing on this board really matters much. Folks tend to invest way to much of their life and emotions in this rather insignificant corner of the cyber world.

[Hamish]

Smart aleck comments like that is why nobody who is actually doing what you just ridiculed bothers to post about it anymore.

Gear

He wasn't being a smart aleck, it was a gesture of empathy put in humorous fashion, as in, don't feel like the Lone Ranger,,,,,,,,I'm pretty surprised you took it that way Gear.

[Plate plinker]

Stay out of the pit for three days and call me in the morning.

Also politics is a great way to lose friends.

[wv109323]

How can some one responding to your post upset you regardless of the content? They may be a 1000 miles away and you will never be in face to face contact. I was an outside salesman and faced confrontation quite often. My boss had a saying " The worst they can do is boil and eat you".
There is no chance of that on any forum.
An opposing or confrontational response should make you re-examine your position or alert you to something you have never experienced or it could be pure BS. I like to hear both sides to a story and weigh the evidence before I make up my mind. When a person entrenches himself into an idea that he is correct, that means any opposition is incorrect. I do not claim to be that smart.
There was a line from the MASH tv show " If I knew everything I would run for the office of God". I also learn "Sticks and Stones".

[fishhawk]

I really think this thread has gone on long enough already. Let it die every one......

[Mooseman]

Amen !!!

[paul h]

Life gets allot easier when a fellow figures out that nothing on this board really matters much. Folks tend to invest way to much of their life and emotions in this rather insignificant corner of the cyber world.

True that!

A few of my friends also post on the some the same forums I post on. It always surprises me when they'll bring up something stupid someone has posted on the net, like it really matters. Hey, it's something stupid someone posted on the net, life goes on.

The nice thing about the net is you don't have to deal with the idiots and trolls in person, and there is this wonderful ignore button that filters the noise out of the signal on your cyber time.

[firefly1957]

I have just started getting on here more again this board had plenty to offer but at times i understand what you said.

[Bazoo]

I dont know you, or any of you. Im new. I read a lot of stuff to learn some of the finer points. Might say a few things, but normally, close minded folks have more to say about what I do than my nerves will allow. Thats why I dont say a whole heck of a lot, or share much of the info I have. Because anytime you share info, some idiot will always be there to rag on you for something they dont understand or havent done themselves.

Like, for example, my wanting to convert 357magnum cases to LPP. They were once this way, i dont need a reason to want to do it. But my post of the same, looking for both info on how best to accomplish this, and old data for the same, garnered nothing but the usual "they wouldnt have changed to spp without a good reason" & "why dont you just lay in a lifetime supply of spp's". Not to forget my personal favorite of "why not just switch to 10mm, its better in all regards".

Bugs Bunny said it best when he said, "what a maroon!".

I dont know anyone that loves loading, and no one that casts. Those I know load to save money, and do it safely. But they do not have the passion for it. And casting is too much work, when bullets can be bought for so little.

Dont know if this is relevant or not.

[PULSARNC]

Guilty of being a lurker for the most part ,very seldom post but read everything on a pretty regular basis .Most of what I have learned about casting has come from here . Never had a problem getting my questions answered . Only thing that has bothered me over the years has been the fact that some people let their mouths overload their butts. Never saw much profit in getting upset by others stupidity on the internet .argueing with an idiot just drags you down to their level .

[dtknowles]

If you are so underwhelmed with getting a pat on the back from offering assistance or help to others that need it, then you are on the wrong track here. I have been casting for over 50yrs now and I don't hesitate to share my knowledge with anyone seeking it. Yes, in the past others have ignored it and did it "THEIR" way, and later came back and said they wished they had listened the first time.
Personally, I can't even grasp the concept of what you are complaining about, other than the fact that you must be the one and only best at what every it is you do, and you expect praise and acalades from everyone that reads your "POSTS". Sorry, but in this world it don't work like that. I learned a long time ago that the only person that can put me down and make me feel bad is "ME", others opinions and comments matter not to me.
Maybe you should look in a mirror sometime and try and remember back when you got started and wouldn't it have been nice to have the help available then that there is now in this Chat Room. Something to think about, huh?

It idiots I am talking about are over in the Pit, I have for the most part been very happy with my exchanges in shooting related forums. I don't consider someone asking questions as an idiot or reactionary. I am not looking for a pat on the back. I just needed to vent about the lies and evil philosophy that is sometimes spread in the Pit. It goes on and on. I get the feeling sometimes that if I don't expose the lies they will be accepted as fact by the people who read the forum but don't post, lurkers and visitors. Some of the posts make me embarrassed to be a member but if some of us contradict those posts then someone from the outside would not see the forum as a bunch of crazies.

Tim

[Cowpoke]

Where is this "PIT" that you all speak of?

From what I've read in this thread I may be sorry I asked though.

[dtknowles]

Guilty of being a lurker for the most part ,very seldom post but read everything on a pretty regular basis .Most of what I have learned about casting has come from here . Never had a problem getting my questions answered . Only thing that has bothered me over the years has been the fact that some people let their mouths overload their butts. Never saw much profit in getting upset by others stupidity on the internet .argueing with an idiot just drags you down to their level .

As a member of the forum I feel some responsibility for the quality of the forum and if an idiot posts lies or misinformation here or advocates a philosophy that reflects poorly on the forum, I feel an obligation to try and correct that. When it gets bad I think maybe I don't want to be associated with this forum. I have been letting a lot of things go without inserting my opinion but I find that almost as stressful as arguing.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Where is this "PIT" that you all speak of?

From what I've read in this thread I may be sorry I asked though.

It is forum that support the politics and religion and humor and off topic subforums .

Tim

[dragon813gt]

Just because you think they are idiots doesn't make it so. How many other firearm forums do you visit? I can assure you that this place is mild and the posters intelligent compared to others. Now if you're comparing this place to nonfirearm forums then it's a different story.

Unfortunately firearm forums tend to attract people that believe in conspiracy theories. Same w/ prepper types. Not people that want to be self sufficient. The fringe people that think the government is out to get them. And then there are all the Mall Ninjas but this place is pretty much Ninja free.

Visit less if things are bothering you. Telling someone that they're an idiot does no one any good.

[dtknowles]

Just because you think they are idiots doesn't make it so. How many other firearm forums do you visit? I can assure you that this place is mild and the posters intelligent compared to others. Now if you're comparing this place to nonfirearm forums then it's a different story.

Unfortunately firearm forums tend to attract people that believe in conspiracy theories. Same w/ prepper types. Not people that want to be self sufficient. The fringe people that think the government is out to get them. And then there are all the Mall Ninjas but this place is pretty much Ninja free.

Visit less if things are bothering you. Telling someone that they're an idiot does no one any good.

I am a member of the GunBroker forums, Bayou Shooters, NOE Forums and this forum as far as Gun forums go. I am only active on NOE and here. Not visiting would be visiting less but it will not make the forum better. I understand that it is my opinion about who is an idiot. Actually they are not technically idiots, they are people who's opinions and beliefs I find disturbing or offensive and am uncomfortable belonging to a group that they belong too but at least if I make my disagreement obvious then others will not associate me with them even if we have some common interests.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

You aren't going to make the forum better. You aren't going to change anyone's beliefs. Best to just realize that. If you don't go into the pit you won't notice any of the infuriating threads.

[oldlincoln]

Hey dragon,
An wise friend of mine is wont to say sometimes "There's no goober like a gun goober". It took my asbergery self years to learn to smile and just go on. It's a real stress reliever.

[dtknowles]

You aren't going to make the forum better. You aren't going to change anyone's beliefs. Best to just realize that. If you don't go into the pit you won't notice any of the infuriating threads.

If I did not believe that I was making it better I would not post. If I did not post I would still go to the pit for all the great stuff that Artful digs up. Not everything in the pit is bad. If the pit got a few more voters to the polls......

Tim

[dtknowles]

You aren't going to make the forum better. You aren't going to change anyone's beliefs. Best to just realize that. If you don't go into the pit you won't notice any of the infuriating threads.

You can't know who you might influence since you don't know who is lurking. It is not about changing the beliefs of the person you are arguing it is the impression you make on the nonparticipants.

Tim

[dtknowles]

You can know who you might influence since you don't know who is lurking. It is not about changing the beliefs of the person you are arguing it is the impression you make on the nonparticipants.

Tim

dtknowles (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?12523-dtknowles),
RayinNH (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?61-RayinNH),
M-Tecs (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?5251-M-Tecs),
Bad Water Bill (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?1888-Bad-Water-Bill),
GL49 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?9993-GL49),
MaryB (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?30993-MaryB),
dragonrider (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?1545-dragonrider)
These people are following this thread right now and many others will read it later.

[geargnasher]

Well, some asbergery people are a long ways behind you, Oldlincoln. My grandfather called it "an over-developed sense of justice", 'cuz they didn't have a term for it then.

I stay out of the pit for the most part, because sooner or later I end up hating just about every single person that posts there. It's like people go there to bare their ugly souls.

Gear

[M-Tecs]

Actually they are not technically idiots, they are people who's opinions and beliefs I find disturbing or offensive and am uncomfortable belonging to a group that they belong too but at least if I make my disagreement obvious then others will not associate me with them even if we have some common interests.

Tim

You post what you want and I post what I want. We are members of the same forum. Any association ends after that. If you and I disagree nobody other than you or I care as long as the posts are within the rules. Truth be told I don't care either. I will state my point and you are welcome to take it however you want. Doesn't effect me either way.

[MaryB]

#3 people who read a lot, try things, but don't post a lot because what they are doing is not new


I have said this before and it bears repeating here.

There are two types of people on these boards.

1) People who shoot a lot and cast a lot and who have learned a lot and know that they don't know it all.

2) People who have read a lot and know everything there is to know about everything.

It doesn't take long to assign the members to their correct category.

Then you read the ones you respect and ignore the others.

[geargnasher]

dtknowles (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?12523-dtknowles),
RayinNH (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?61-RayinNH),
M-Tecs (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?5251-M-Tecs),
Bad Water Bill (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?1888-Bad-Water-Bill),
GL49 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?9993-GL49),
MaryB (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?30993-MaryB),
dragonrider (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?1545-dragonrider)
These people are following this thread right now and many others will read it later.

And me. I was surfing in invisible mode.

I feel your pain, but it is a unique pain that most of the rest of humanity will never understand because they do not perceive things so clearly, or so black and white. The only thing I can tell you is that most people possess at least a basic capacity for Reason, but not the tools to use it or to think independently, which has largely been beaten out of them by society and our public school system. Reason is not automatic, either, its use must be learned, regardless of capacity for that learning. Unfortunately, you can't MAKE people learn how to think past their conditioning. As an example, if your Dad was a Baptist, a Republican, and hated "faggots" more than the devil himself, you will likely turn out the same way, and not realize why, because you did not arrive at your convictions through your own rational process.

Gear

[MaryB]

What you consider misinformation is often truth that doesn't reflect your views...


As a member of the forum I feel some responsibility for the quality of the forum and if an idiot posts lies or misinformation here or advocates a philosophy that reflects poorly on the forum, I feel an obligation to try and correct that. When it gets bad I think maybe I don't want to be associated with this forum. I have been letting a lot of things go without inserting my opinion but I find that almost as stressful as arguing.

Tim

[hithard]

dtknowles (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?12523-dtknowles),
RayinNH (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?61-RayinNH),
M-Tecs (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?5251-M-Tecs),
Bad Water Bill (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?1888-Bad-Water-Bill),
GL49 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?9993-GL49),
MaryB (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?30993-MaryB),
dragonrider (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?1545-dragonrider)
These people are following this thread right now and many others will read it later.

just read it, well enough of it to realize we now need a drama thread.

[MaryB]

I read most of the threads in this section. So it means nada

[dtknowles]

What you consider misinformation is often truth that doesn't reflect your views...

Do you mean the specifically to me, what have I done that gives you that impression? I am sure you did not mean to be hurtful but that does hurt. Maybe you mean that people often behave that way. I am careful to separate opinion from fact. I am very open to valid information that does not reflect my views, I want my views to reflect the facts not some fanciful vision of the world. I am not perfect but what I mean by misinformation is stuff that is clearly fabricated or just factually wrong. I will even correct misinformation from people trying to support my position. This has caused me problems because then people think I am on the other side of the issue when I am actually on the same side with them but don't want the position to be supported by lies.

Example. There was a thread that got to Lawyer bashing and I am no friend of lawyers but a poster said that lawyers could deduct their pro bono work from their income on taxes. I corrected that as you can't deduct donated time from your income taxes I don't care if you are a lawyer or a mechanic ring a bell for the Salvation Army. I am sure some people thought I was defending lawyers but I was just defending the truth.

Tim

[GL49]

:popcorn:

[MaryB]

That applies to everyone. Often each side can present information that is fact but the opposite due a change in law, the way something was reported etc. Like this guy on another forum saying whites commit more crime than blacks. He is basing his opinion on total number of crimes and ignoring the fact there are 6 times as many whites as blacks when the proper way is to present a comparison like that as per capita(typically 100,000 population) which shows the opposite story.

[dragon813gt]

:popcorn:

I was the first to call that in post #9 ;)

[Col4570]

The World would be a better place if all agreed to differ.To interfere with another persons view regarding any subject needs much consideration on both parts.This subject has pros and cons but it is wise not to enforce views but to debate and come to an amicable conclusion this is how civilisation should endure but unfortunately as we see the globe is in turmoil due to participants not agreeing to differ.Cool it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I know they would enjoy getting call out and criticized. The stupid things they say and the endless need to correct them so that they don't put stupid ideas in other people heads.

Just the other day someone posted that lawyers deducted there pro bono work from their income for tax purposes. The stupidity that is displayed on this forum reminds me of the people who shoot up road signs. I want to go somewhere where stupid people don't go. If I get banned I can't come back even if I am tempted.

Tim

Somewhere stupid people don't go? I doubt if NASA would be prepared to invest in sending you.

This forum compares extremely well with the majority of others on the internet. Well, except for politics and religion, naturally, but the body politic isn't going to suffer if the political propeller-heads here go unchallenged, and I expect we can trust God to handle the religious ones if He sees the need. Of course this isn't a flower-arranging forum, where the things die this very week and the people don't. Sometimes we really need to speak up if someone advocates practices which can get people seriously killed, or even cause them to waste a lot of money, or if he proposes altering a classic firearm in a way persons yet unborn will curse him for.

I've even known myself be caught out in error here sometimes. But the way to look at it is, if you find approval more often as you find contradiction, you are ahead of the game. Even if someone doesn't know that others are just standing back the way Brer Rabbit should have stood back from the tar baby, don't underrate what the others know.

Of course most of us lack the advantages of psychological training, but surfing from link to link on Wikipedia can give us a lot of insight into what goes on here. The French say that to understand all is to forgive all, although I haven't observed them being more inclined to forgive all than, as a random example, Americans. What it can do is teach us that internet trolls welcome being answered in their own style. They just feel that they have turned the discussion their way, and they do it better. What on earth is the point of dropping out or being dropped out, leaving them to think "See what I can do to the opposition?", when most people posting or lurking already know perfectly well what they are, and what their opinions are worth?

In my long-gone days as a university fencer, I was taught always to fight someone in the opposite of his own chosen style. If a poster emulates the action of a disturbed child who finds he can always get attention by soiling himself, just tell him that you will be sure to give his opinions the attention they deserve, or words to that effect. He may or may not get it later, but plenty of other people will.