.50-70 brass

[Ilwil]

I got a smoking deal on a 66 trapdoor. Now, how do I find .50-70 brass?

[Skipper]

I got a smoking deal on a 66 trapdoor. Now, how do I find .50-70 brass?

Until track of the wolf gets some, try Dixie

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_101_287&products_id=16678&osCsid=jb535ptvgcvochr2ch11ar4c51

[StrawHat]

As you might be aware, the Model 1866 is the trapdoor that started the "weak trapdoor" phrase. The 1866s were made by milling the musket barrels and fitting the breechblock. I have one and suggest you keep loads to black powder only. I do not even suggest using substitutes or black powder equivalent loads. For me, black powder provides the best accuracy.

[Skipper]

In stock at Grafs

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/17863

[oldred]

I personally have been of the opinion to use a smokeless equivalent rather than one of the BP subs in most cases if real black is not desired for whatever reason BUT this is one of those firearms that should be restricted to real BP and nothing else, certainly not smokeless. Even at that the rifle should be checked over thoroughly before firing due to it's age and the fact it was only border-line safe to begin with. I am NOT saying these rifles are inherently unsafe but they have little in the way of a safety margin and since most BP subs are more potent than real black and there would be ZERO room for error when using smokeless in any quantity BP is definitely called for here.

I am aware that the OP never even mentioned any kind of powder substitution so my comment was meant as an agreement with Strawhat

[Washington1331]

I personally have been of the opinion to use a smokeless equivalent rather than one of the BP subs in most cases if real black is not desired for whatever reason BUT this is one of those firearms that should be restricted to real BP and nothing else, certainly not smokeless. Even at that the rifle should be checked over thoroughly before firing due to it's age and the fact it was only border-line safe to begin with. I am NOT saying these rifles are inherently unsafe but they have little in the way of a safety margin and since most BP subs are more potent than real black and there would be ZERO room for error when using smokeless in any quantity BP is definitely called for here.

I am aware that the OP never even mentioned any kind of powder substitution so my comment was meant as an agreement with Strawhat

+1 on that opinion. I have an 1868 Springfield, and I promised myself that it would never see smokeless powder or BP subs... These heathen powders get to their working pressures along different curves that the engineers at the Springfield Armory never designed the guns for. Personally I stick to real black powder for my antique arms.

I've ordered all my 50/70 brass from Graff and Sons. Good company. I think you'll like the 50-70 government... with every shot it I like it a little more.

[Nobade]

They will make them eventually...

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/50-70-Govt-Brass/index.cfm

-Nobade

[salpal48]

I have 3 m1866 trapdoors. always used 3031 and worked well. . i was not happy with the case reduction of powder . Recently switched to Trailboss very good results. . . trailboss fills the case . shoots first time every time..
Sal

[StrawHat]

In the land of trapdoors, the Model 1868 is a lot stronger than a Model 1866. The 1868 was built using a separate receiver machined to accept a threaded barrel. I would still use BP in it but it is a stronger rifle.

And yes, the more you use the 50-70, the less you will need the smaller 45-70.

[Ilwil]

Thank you, gentlemen, for all your input. I never intended to use anything but black powder, given that most of the rifle has 1864 components. Mine is exceptionally clean, with the stock cartouche still showing. It has a post-arsenal marking forward of the breech, top of the barrel. "203 CRS". The Hosmer reference book says many of the 1866 guns, all made in 1867, were sold overseas after the improved 1868 was issued. France bought a lot of them for the war with Prussia. The book says many of the guns came back to the U.S. This serial is likely European, given that Springfield did not then assign serial numbers

[StrawHat]

Once you find your brass and a good boolit, let us know how it is working for you.

I like the NOE hollow based copy of the Lyman 515141,

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=437

[Washington1331]

StrawHat,

How has your luck been with the NOE mold? I have one and I'm about ready to pull my hair out. I've got the two bullet mold and I'm getting around 99% throw backs. I've tried 40:1 and 20:1 alloys with no joy. Mine throws consistantly at 412 grains and .515. I'm not getting any frosting or wrinkling in the boolits, but I keep on getting out of round bases and not a full 450 grains. Any suggestions?

[Nobade]

Tried pressure casting using a big ladle? I have several that refuse to work right unless I do it that way.

-Nobade

[StrawHat]

An acquaintance of mine used my mold and was able to cast quite a few. Not sure if he had any problems. Have you cleaned the mold and the other usual pre-cast prep? I have other HB molds and they need to be run hot. I use a hot plate and cast fast.

[Washington1331]

I use the Lee Pro 20 and I cleaned the mold as per manufacturer's direction. Broke the mold in the oven as directed, lubed with bees wax, and smoked the mold surfaces. I haven't tried the large ladle method to fill as there isn't very much room in the pot with the bottom pour operating rod to get any substantial side ladle in. I'll have to see what I can find at my local store, or I now have an excuse with the Mrs to buy a new melting pot. ;-)

[Tom Herman]

Washington 1331: All good advice... The only hollow base moulds I have are for the .455 Webley. One I haven't had a chance to use yet, but the first one was similarly very disappointing: I couldn't get good mould fillout, the driving bands just weren't crisp. Failure rate was about 95%, and I was very dismayed at the results. The ultimate solution was to pre-heat the mould on the electric stove (set to Medium heat), and to run HOT alloy: The physics of a separate bottom plug meant it didn't get hot like the mould sides did, and thus didn't cast worth a flip. Once there was enough heat, I went to about 85-90% good bullets. Hang in, there. You'll figure out just how you need to tweak it, then you'll be producing boat loads of good bullets.

Strawhat: Thanks for posting the link to the NOE bullet: I've put that mould on my wish list.... I've got an 1868 Trapdoor, have yet to fire it. Already have the dies, now I need brass and a mould.

A most Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy, and Prosperous New Year to all!

[StrawHat]

For more information on the Model 1866

http://trapdoorcollector.com/m66.html

Follow the tabs for other models.

[oldred]

Don't know if you found that brass yet but Wideners has it in stock, just about a buck each.


https://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|282|909|1185

[Washington1331]

Tom,

Thanks for the advice on the stove unfortunately I doubt MDW would let me use the stove in such a fashion so that means I'll be in the market for a hot plate.

I did get out to do some load testing. And the hollow base boolits that did pass the test from my last casting session did improve the accuracy on my 1868. Also made for a good show at twilight.

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