How good do Bolt guns shoot 30-30 Win cast boolits?

[JWFilips]

Ok , I have been having lots of fun shooting cast in my 336 Marlin 30-30. Accuracy is pretty good at my nominal 50yds with everything from 75 gr to 165 grain boolits But the Lever action plus the 20" barrel has me thinking ( since I'm only shooting at targets & not game) Would I see a big improvement in accuracy with the 30-30 and find tuned cast boolit loads with a bolt gun. & if so, which? Or is the 30-30 only so accurate regardless. I would love to get the caliber on par with my 8 mm bolt guns. Is this just a dream?

[rintinglen]

Depends on how good your 336 is.
The most accurate 30-30 I've seen was a Remington 788 that would print 5 shot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with R-P factory 150 grain JSP's. I offered to buy it but it was not for sale. My own more humble Springfield 325 would be hard pressed to shoot under 2 inches. I've not seen a 336 that could equal the 788, but I've seen several that could equal or better my rifle. I believe that from a snug-chambered bolt gun with a premium barrel, the 30-30 could be an extremely accurate boolit launcher. The modest case size coupled with the long neck should be a recipe for greatness.

[Outpost75]

Limitation with most. 30-30 boltguns is the abrupt throat in the SAAMI chamber. If you just "kiss" the origin ofvriflingvlightly to reduce the angle, without cutting a ling ball seat, you can get much better sccuracy, even in a levergun. I had a Winchester 54 in. 30-30 which would hold the V ring on the old Army A target at 300 yards with factory 170-grain Remington Core Lokts. My H&R Handi Rifle with 4x hunting scope will to the same, 5" at 300 yards off sandbags!

[RickinTN]

The 30-30 cartridge itself has extreme capability in the accuracy department. Several years ago a group of benchresters had a large batch of brass made to order which I think had small primer pockets to experiment with. If I recall correctly the cases were referred to as "30 American" cases. As far as factory rifles to wring out the accuracy the Remington 788 has a stellar reputation. I've never owned one but friends who do have or have had them tell me they shoot very well.
Rick

[HARRYMPOPE]

I shoot a Remington 788 action with a 24 inch hart bull barrel. The gun has a good tight chamber and a 1.5 degrees throat which is very critical for accuracy. its accuracy is as good as any other 30 caliber within its powder capacity.like outpost said the issue is the 30 30 is original throat angle.

[Piedmont]

I've got a question on the throating aspect. I recall a thread on this board from several years ago wherein a member commented that as the rifle throats wear they do so to about 3 degrees and that gradually just extends forward but stays three degrees. I have no idea if that is true but it seemed reasonable and stuck with me. If true, wouldn't the .30-30 factory throat just get better the more you shot it?

[Bjornb]

Member Nobade had a reamer made for a 30-30 chamber that he optimized for cast bullets. Not sure on the specs, but his throat design sought to overcome the lack of a graduated throat angle. I'm looking at a custom build using a P14 receiver for a single shot 30-30 (don't want to mess with feeding), as long as the extractor can be modified to pick up the smaller rim.

I bought a Savage 340C from Harrympope a while back, and while no sub-moa rifle, she shoots solid 1-inch groups after I bedded the action. Unfortunately this rifle doesn't have a tang bolt; it's only secured with a bolt in the recoil lug and with a sliding barrel band. This limits the extent to which the action can be secured in the stock.

[williamwaco]

If you can find one, 1" average would be the least I would aspire to.

My TC 23" heavy bbl averages around 7/8 with an occasional 1.5 and an occasional .5. Best ever 0.44" at 200 yards.

If I could find one, I would grab a 788 in a heartbeat.

[atr]

I shoot a Savage 340 ....and this photo is typical of the accuracy I get with cast. Photo is of 6 shots at 75 yds and 6 shots at 100 yds

123942

[Jupiter7]

I too have a savage 340, which I never put much work into shooting cast with as I couldn't get better than 2moa. With 125grn jacketed Sierra pro hunter and TAC at 2400fps it shoots about 3/4" at 100. Recently I started PC'ing rifle boolits and this rifle woke up. Below is the best group from the first tests. Lyman 311-291 sized .311 over 18.3grns 2400. No weight sorting. This is 4 shots, 2 in the same hole almost. Shot at bottom left is from different group. POA was the #4 at 100yds.
123985

[koger]

I have a 336 Marlin and a 30as Marlin, both 30/30,and Leupold bases/rings, good scopes, 1" groups with a lee 170gr cast at 100yds, is pretty much the norm, give or take, depending on me mostly.

[skeettx]

For 30-30 best accuracy in a bolt gun go with a Remington 788

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=457316697

Mike

[JWFilips]

Pretty High opening bid...good luck with that

[yovinny]

I've had an eye out for a 788 in 30-30 or even 44mag for over 30 years and havent stumbled across one yet.

About 2 years ago, Whittakers in KY took in a big collection of 788's. Must have been well over 30 pieces. All the 22-250's, 243's & 308's you could want.
If there were any 30-30's or 44mag's in the bunch,,,They never made it to their gun racks :?

[skeettx]

YUP
They are starting to surface but at a price

http://www.gunbroker.com/Bolt-Action-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=788+30-30

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=439992344

[too many things]

also don't forget the savage 99 problem is scope . but it will one hole if you can shoot open sight

[fouronesix]

"How good do Bolt guns shoot 30-30 Win cast boolits?"
I think good bolt guns usually shoot a little better than good lever guns- all other things being equal. I've seen poor bolt guns shoot worse than many lever guns. I've seen good lever guns shoot better than many bolt guns. But, I have no idea what the cartridge, the 30-30, has to do with it.

[Shooter973]

I have two of these fine rifles in 30-30 and all they get to shoot are cast bullets. They will both shoot 1 inch groups if Ido my part, with carefully crafted hand loads. At full factory level velocities
they hold 1.5 inches or a bit better. Both are scoped, one with a 6 x post reticle, and the other has a modest value 3 x9. I've never had a rifle with a post scope on it. It takes some getting used to. I like them a lot and will never let them go.

[sthwestvictoria]

My best group to date with the Savage 340 (AR2208 is known as Varget in the States):
124338

[nekshot]

kinda late to the chat but I have a old 99 in 303 sav and it shoots 130 speers into 1 inch at 100 yards cosistantly, also a sav 340 I restocked and it fastens by reciever only with free float barrel and it will shoot moa with very careful handloads. I was expecting better results with the 340 and if I wanted a 30-30 for accuracy I would get a 788 or make a mauser into one.

[JSnover]

Would I see a big improvement in accuracy with the 30-30 and find tuned cast boolit loads with a bolt gun. & if so, which? Or is the 30-30 only so accurate regardless. I would love to get the caliber on par with my 8 mm bolt guns. Is this just a dream?
The cartridge is as accurate as you can load it. Years ago I watched a friend of mine put 20 shots into a playing card at 200 yards with a custom built falling block in .30-30

[JWFilips]

or make a mauser into one.

I'm liking what I have read and what you guys have showin (target wise) so far
Ok but Now this is getting interesting. didn't think a mauser could be made into a 30-30. Is this possible?

[nekshot]

yup especially the 95's. You need to open up or get a new extracter to play with(around 35 bucks). I almost did a 98 but it simply was to heavy from the beginning as I like my 30-30's around 6and half pounds.

[str8shot426]

yup especially the 95's. You need to open up or get a new extracter to play with(around 35 bucks). I almost did a 98 but it simply was to heavy from the beginning as I like my 30-30's around 6and half pounds.
Getting it to feed from the magazine would be the tricky part.

[Remiel]

As far as the 336 goes i have a remlin 336W that will shoot 1in groups or less using 150gr sierra pro hunter flat points and 30.5gr of imr 4895, same gun using Winchester power points at 150gr and 31gr of imr4895, same result, havent played with castin it yet maby after the new year(need mold) i have a bag of 150gr Remington corlok to try next but it really loves the pro hunters

[sthwestvictoria]

Getting it to feed from the magazine would be the tricky part.
This is a link to a way one person got the .444 to feed from an enfield magazine:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri127partial.pdf
which sets out a way to help enfields feed from the magazine with straight wall cartridges by putting what is almost an enbloc clip inside the magazine (like the Steyr m95?). Hope it is useful to someone.

[nekshot]

that feed thru the rails is not as bad as it seems. Win 54 did it and I am going to rebarrel a 95 again and do it. It takes alot of time to watch the cartridge as it comes up and make adjustments as needed if needed. I did enough of this to say with confidence it can be done, might not be as slick as the original cartridge but it will (can be made) to work. And don't kick the old dog about rims, of course they must be stacked back to front!

[shootzemm58]

that feed thru the rails is not as bad as it seems. Win 54 did it and I am going to rebarrel a 95 again and do it. It takes alot of time to watch the cartridge as it comes up and make adjustments as needed if needed. I did enough of this to say with confidence it can be done, might not be as slick as the original cartridge but it will (can be made) to work. And don't kick the old dog about rims, of course they must be stacked back to front!
My 1st rifle was a Glenfield 30 in 30-30, it shot 5/8" 3 shot, 100 yd. groups with factory catridges, the second rifle i owned was a savage/stevens 325c and it would shoot 3/4" 3 shot groups at 100 yds. that was 36 yrs ago. Now i`m shooting a savage 340 in .222 and it shoots 1 moa at 200 yds with sierra 52 gr MK,18.9 H4198, 6 1/2 br,. That said, now i`m learning to cast and thats why i`m a newbie here.

[skeettx]

Hello shootzemm58 on your first posting
Pleased to have you on site
Mike

[richhodg66]

Member Nobade had a reamer made for a 30-30 chamber that he optimized for cast bullets. Not sure on the specs, but his throat design sought to overcome the lack of a graduated throat angle. I'm looking at a custom build using a P14 receiver for a single shot 30-30 (don't want to mess with feeding), as long as the extractor can be modified to pick up the smaller rim.

I bought a Savage 340C from Harrympope a while back, and while no sub-moa rifle, she shoots solid 1-inch groups after I bedded the action. Unfortunately this rifle doesn't have a tang bolt; it's only secured with a bolt in the recoil lug and with a sliding barrel band. This limits the extent to which the action can be secured in the stock.

Can you describe the process you used to bed your 340? Mine could rock the barreled action on the recoil lug when I got it, even though it shot OK. I deedened the channel the lug sat in so it doesn't do that and bedded a bit at the contact points including around where the barrel band goes. The rifle isn't really a tack driver, but 2-2 1/2" groups at 100 yards are the norm with my cast deer loads (311041 clone and 26 grains of iMR4895). I like the 340s.

I have a 788 in .30-30 I need to work with, I've only done a limited amount of shooting with it, but I never knew of a 788 that wasn't a good shooter. I've had a few over the years and some have been spooky accurate. I wish Remington would bring it back.

[nekshot]

wow are you fortunate or what to have a 788 in 30-30. That is my dream rifle! Also the back of the 340 reciever can be lengthened (by a good welder) and drilled for a bolt. A very simple fix. I embedded a piece of aluminum at the back of stock for the reciever to fit into and when the bolt at recoil lug is tightened the action becomes snug.125027

[GBertolet]

I bought the same custom 30-30 reamer from Manson that nobade had designed. I corrosponded with nobade about this reamer and got the drawing from Manson. It is called the 30-30 CBM. It has a 1.5 degree leade and the throat is .100 shorter than standard. I had a live pilot of .3005 made to fit my .301 bore diameter barrel. This fall I rebarreled my 788 using this reamer. Tenative testing with the 311291 bullet and 4759 powder, yields groups of 1" or less at 100 yards. I only had a 4X scope on for initial testing. I am positive that this can be improved upon considerably by additional load development.

[Nobade]

GBertolet, that's great to hear! I'm glad that reamer is working well for you. That is the chamber a 30-30 ought to have, it certainly has a lot going for it compared to the SAAMI 30-30. So far I have only used it on my 788, but hope to build something else with it in the future - maybe a Ruger single shot if I ever find an appropriate doner rifle! Have to cogitate on that a bit... Anyhow, glad to hear it's working for you!

-Nobade

[C A Plater]

While not a bolt gun my TC Contender carbine in .30-30 regularly does 1" at 100 yards with cast. I see no reason not to get similar results from a bolt gun especially if it has a nice trigger pull.

[uaskme]

Seems like a lot of trouble if you want a bolt 30/30. Why dont you just get a .308. Cast loads are at 30/30 ballistics.

[MaxJon]

I think the 30-30 is better suited to cast for the smaller case capacity, and longer neck than the 308. I think the longer neck is great for keeping the Boolit base in the neck portion of the case!
Just what I have been reading on here that's all!

[Char-Gar]

I have a Savage 320 (30-30) that is an easy 1.5 MOA rifles with cast bullet. I consider it a truck gun, so have no spent time trying to beat that accuracy.

I have a Browning Traditional Hunter (30-30) single shot that is an easy sub MOA rifle. It has a pretty traditional throat in it.

[tdoyka]

my dad has a savage 340 in 30-30. with factory ammo it goes around 1 1/2" at 100 yards. its been in the safe for about 10 years or so. someday i'll clean the copper out of it and shoot a 165gr ranch dog out of her.

[kir_kenix]

I have a Stevens 325A and a Savage 340. both will do sub 2moa, and 1.5 on a good day. One of my ex's shot her first deer with the 325A (165 rd), and probably 5 of my friends and family members have used it for their first deer season. It's pretty light and handy.

The Stevens is probably the ugliest rifle I own. The bluing is poor, it has surface rust in a few places, the stock has been glued back together and had truck bed liner sprayed on it, the trigger is pretty awful, the factory rings are cheesy...but it is a great loaner/truck/atv/beater rifle. I think with a better trigger set up, better bedding, a more solid scope attachment, and a good barrel these Savage/Stevens rifles could be legitimate 1moa rifles. I love mine for what they are: handy, cheap, dependable, and plenty accurate for deer within the range of the 30-30.

[rockrat]

Couldn't you just use 30-30 brass, with the rims cut down to .473" in a regular bolt gun? Kind of like the 225win.

[waco]

I got a Savage 340 in 30-30 a few months ago. It's my new go to fun gun. It has a brass German made front bead and has Lyman receiver sights. First load I tried did sub 2" at 100 with a Lee 180gr and IMR4064.

[joatmon]

I'd like to try to really ring the accuracy out of my 788 with cast this fall after I cast up some to shoot! So far been using 125 or 135(can't remember)Speer's
I really like rockrats idea on reducing the rim.
Aeron

[gnoahhh]

My M54 Winchester has a pristine bore (only cast bullets through it during the last 30 years I owned it). It would consistently group MOA for 5 shots and a dependable 1 3/8" for ten (with Fecker target scope). I finally got around to re-throating it with a 1½º included angle reamer and groups tightened up a fair amount with the 180-200grain bullets I like to shoot out of it. I then made up an "Ardito" die with the same reamer to swage the noses of said bullets to perfectly conform to the new throat. It became a single shot from having to seat the bullets farther out to get the noses firmly in the leade after all that, but accuracy improved a bit more. Now it'll slop ten into an inch with enough 5/8-3/4" five shot groups to make me smile. (Almost all experimenting done with SR-4759. Thank god I have enough stashed to last me forever, I hope.) Using it as a repeater with the bullets seated to magazine length still gives me accuracy as good if not better than originally. Take the 10X Fecker off of it and use the receiver sight and away into the deer woods she goes stoked with stiff loads of 190 grain FN's driven by 3031.

A .30-30 in a solid bolt gun is a wonderful thing indeed. But I could never muster similar accuracy with a 340 I had, no matter what I tried so away it went. A .30-30 bull barrel on an old Winchester HiWall action I have squirreled away is a near future project to further explore the potential of this cartridge with cast bullets.