308 & Elk

[offshore44]

Looking into a new rifle, just because. While researching it and contemplating what it could be used for, Elk hunting came up. I hunt Roosevelt's in some pretty brushy, thick, vertical country as a rule, meaning that the longest shots are 150 yards, and more typically half that. Let's just call it 200 yards max to be safe and get a little extra distance for good measure.

The rifle is a carbine with an 18" barrel. Any recommendations for a cast boolit to look at? Is the whole idea of a 308 carbine for Roosevelt Elk crazy? Oh, and I can generally hit within 2 - 3" of point of aim under the conditions that I hunt in. Not spectacular accuracy, I know, but there is a lot going on in a short amount of time when you take the shot.

Thanks for the input!

[micky_blue]

If 200 is your max, I prefer a bigger boolit so I would say for a new rifle get a 358. That being said, a 308 will get it done all day every day with proper placement and a good heavy boolit.

[offshore44]

The 358 was a serious contender...but I'm looking for a bolt gun to go with my StG58 auto loader...it's a 308. I do have an 8mm and a 45 x 2 1/2 Belted Express that I usually hunt with. No issues smacking Elk with those at all.

So, what's a good heavy bullet?

[dk17hmr]

I have a model 7 308 I carried during our bull hunt. Loaded with 165gr partition I wouldn't hesitate on a 200 yard shot. For a cast rifle I would go bigger.... 358 at least.

[offshore44]

I've heard good things about partitions and A-frames as well. I guess reverting back to those new fangled bullets with gas checks to the nose would be OK. ;)

[skeettx]

I would choose a Remington 600 or 660 in 308,
if you wish to stick with the 308.
What fun, what fun
Mike

p.s.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=456249345

[offshore44]

I was really looking at the Ruger GSR, stainless, with the 18" barrel. I've heard good things about it, and a detachable magazine fed carbine that comes with iron sights fits the bill. Like the three position safety, the controlled round feed, the adjustable stock, the fact that it is stainless, the hammer forged barrel, readily available for not a ton of money...lots to like there for what I'll be mostly using it for. If the only thing that it won't do is kill Elk, I suppose that I can live with that. Lots of Elk have been harvested around here for a lot of years with a 30-30 lever gun though. Can't see why the 308 wouldn't do just fine.

Edited to add: This would be a Jeep rifle mostly. Take it into the woods for a walk about rifle. Plinking and just shooting. In a pinch, I could shoot my StG58 cast loads out of it. I figure that it would work just fine for Black Tails, Black Bear, Cougar, and other general hunting uses. Tagging a Roosevelt with it, using cast, is the question though. Those are some pretty big critters. A decent bull runs about 7 - 800 pounds. It's doable with jacketed. With cast? I don't know. Lots of them were harvested with 30-30s a generation or two ago though. A few still are. I was thinking something a little handier in the brush would be nice as apposed to my Mauser's and my "big stick" gun. Must be getting old or lazy or something.

[offshore44]

That Mohawk is a nice looking rifle! That's the idea, for sure...


I would choose a Remington 600 or 660 in 308,
if you wish to stick with the 308.
What fun, what fun
Mike

p.s.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=456249345

[atr]

for a .308 heavy bullet.....try Lyman #311284 / 210 grain. with IMR4895

[taco650]

If you're wanting a cheap "Jeep gun" why not a Mosin? Power is the same and no worries about dinging the wood or scratching the barrel.

OTOH, the 308 is plenty for elk. Like others have recommended, lean toward heavy boolits around 1800-2000 fps. Just make sure they'll feed from your magazine.

[krag35]

I have taken Several Rocky Mountain Elk with Lyman's 311284 out of my Krag. the 308 winchester can match that velocity, so should work just as well.

[elk hunter]

Call me "chicken" but, elk are tough, I still like "Partitions" in .375 or bigger. The closest I ever came to losing an elk was with a 30-06 loaded with my favorite 180 Nosler. Granted I hit him too far back on the first shot and that amped him up, but it did scare me that I could have lost him.

That said a .308 cast bullet at decent velocity in the proper place will do the job. If that is what I had that is what I would use but, my preference, especially hunting in thick heavy brush, would be for a larger caliber, .375 or bigger, a bullet that is heavy for caliber with a wide meplat to transfer energy to the animal. I want the bullet to exit as I believe an exit wound bleeds better than an entrance wound making it easier to track.

I don't mean to pontificate, I just love elk and elk hunting.

[quilbilly]

I would choose a Remington 600 or 660 in 308,
if you wish to stick with the 308.
What fun, what fun
Mike

p.s.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=456249345
That's the one I would get in the 308. I have had one in 6mm for almost 50 years. Don't know where you live but since you are hunting Roosevelts, you might be close by me. There is a gun show in Sequim, Wa. twice a year and a guy there has had a Rem 600 in 350 mag for a couple years if that interests you. The problem with the big heavy boolits in the 308 is that they will probably have to be seated well into the combustion chamber which may effect accuracy. On the other hand, since you are hunting Roosevelt elk, most of your shots will be under 125 yards (sometimes in spear range) so accuracy isn't a big deal if groups are under 4" at 100. My 308 loves boolits around 160 gr and routinely is MOA. Roosevelt Elk are tough and larger in body than their Rocky Mountain cousins for biological reasons but I have seen so many taken with a 300 Savage that anything similar and up power wise is more than adequate.

[GabbyM]

Being the proud owner of a Ruger VT stainless. The original barrel and the one on my buddies identical 243 Win caliber VT lived up to the soft steel reputation of the Ruger SS M77's. They both wore out at under one thousand rounds. I now also own an FN made Win M70 Sporter in 30-06. I love this rifle and the caliber. Would highly recommend the M70 over a Ruger. That's my preference.
I don't find the 24" barrel or long action caliber to slow me down any. But some do. Winchester makes a compact FW with 20 inch barrel in 308Win. barrel also has a 1:12" twist rifling rate which will allow you to shoot 180 grain cast boolits at 2,200 fps at least. Ruger uses 1:10" twist rate. You will get at least 200 fps faster boolits before accuracy falls off with the 12 twist Winchester. No small thing.
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535201

I have here a MiHec mold. I shoot it from the 06. Is a close profile to the Lyman #311332 which is listed in Lyman's book for the 308. It has a set of small HP pins which should in theory be just enough to initiate expansion in soft tissue. Hit bone and you don't need a HP if you've cast from a proper alloy. NOE has several nice 30 caliber molds available. Like the 188 grain 30 Hunter which would be a good fit in a 308 case. I'd do a search on that boolit to see how shooters are doing with it. Would be my 1st choice as an all around hunter as the MiHec mold isn't available for immediate order. You can always set up a drill jig to HP a few for specific hunts. With an Elk you shouldn't' need a HP.

[offshore44]

Thanks for the input guys, it's all good. I have a Mosin M44 truck gun in a synthetic stock. I've shot it exactly twice. Not a bad rig, but it does exactly nothing for me. I also have a couple of 8mm Mausers, one of which I could cut down and restock for a truck gun. I know that the 8mm will take an Elk with no problem around here. Already set up for that one.

I really like the Winchester M70's. They are probably my favorite rifle design. I would be into the rig for a bunch o' money by the time I got it set up the way I want though. Maybe someday it'll happen.

It looks like I'll stick with the 8mm and the 45 x 2 1/2 belted express for Elk for the time being. I'll play with the 308 and Partitions or A-frames after I get it. Fiddle with a heavy cast boolit as time permits to see how that works out.

Thanks again for the input...

[mart]

My wife shoots a BSA Majestic in 308. Two years ago she killed a nice cow moose with it and 150 grain Barnes TSX bullets. Prior to moving to Alaska she piled up a pretty fair number of deer and elk with that rifle. Mostly with Hornady 165 spire points. A 308 with a good bullet like the Partition, A Frame, TSX or a good cast bullet will take elk nicely.

123800

[quilbilly]

Don't sell big, slow cast boolits short. The only 600# elk I ever saw lifted completely off the ground with feet rotating skyward at the strike of a boolit was hit by a 255 gr. SWC in 429 cal traveling from a muzzleloader (shot with sabot) at a muzzle velocity of 1600 fps. and a distance of 50 yards. That elk never moved again.

[offshore44]

Don't sell big, slow cast boolits short. The only 600# elk I ever saw lifted completely off the ground with feet rotating skyward at the strike of a boolit was hit by a 255 gr. SWC in 429 cal traveling from a muzzleloader (shot with sabot) at a muzzle velocity of 1600 fps. and a distance of 50 yards. That elk never moved again.

Yup, the Ruger SBH is my carry gun out in the woods most of the time and I have no doubt that it would put the hurt on an Elk if conditions were right and the range was 100 yards or under. Doesn't push the Keith's to quit that velocity, but the critter would never know the difference for sure.


My wife shoots a BSA Majestic in 308. Two years ago she killed a nice cow moose with it and 150 grain Barnes TSX bullets. Prior to moving to Alaska she piled up a pretty fair number of deer and elk with that rifle. Mostly with Hornady 165 spire points. A 308 with a good bullet like the Partition, A Frame, TSX or a good cast bullet will take elk nicely.

123800

Nice! The rifle I'm contemplating is a replacement for a Birmingham Parker-Hale in .308. The Parker-Hale is possessed by evil spirits or something. Just way to many issues to deal with on that one. I'm pretty sure that a partition or an A-frame would work nicely on Elk around here.

I also know that the 45 cal rifle I usually use does a more than sufficient job from any range and at any angle that I am likely to encounter or have encountered. Paper patched 405 and 465 grn boolits in a soft alloy (16:1) traveling at about 1,800 fps are the clear ticket. It's just a monster bolt gun, and I'm getting old and tired (lazy?). Maybe I get one of the grandkids to be a gun bearer for me...he can call me B'wanna or something. ;) :)

[Dthunter]

I have used the 311299, 200 grain boolet. Works just fine, but You have to single load it the way I seat the boolets. The 308 win is just fine.

try the 45-70 for those ranges! Just cast some 400 grain flat noses and load them up around 1500-1700fps. That will flatten anything out there out to the ranges you speak of. With authority.

[Jr.]

Yep heavy with cast. I have dropped elk at over 200 yards a 150 grn core-lokt out of an 06 so a 308 should be similar that caliber has been proven time and time again so I wouldn't second guess your choice. Could look into the BLR I have shot a couple and think they would make an excellent brush gun for that area.

[nagantguy]

If you're wanting a cheap "Jeep gun" why not a Mosin? Power is the same and no worries about dinging the wood or scratching the barrel.

OTOH, the 308 is plenty for elk. Like others have recommended, lean toward heavy boolits around 1800-2000 fps. Just make sure they'll feed from your magazine.

Great idea, I don't have or didn't have until just now a "jeep mosin" there is one that rides in the work truck and another in the farmmtruck but now I'll have to get another jeep, and nagant, all that I own have a designation already so I'll buy the nagant I looked at today, tomorrow and then buy a jeep! Good thing there are still killer deals to be had on nagants!!!!!

[GabbyM]

I don’t quite understand the premise of a truck “beater” gun. I’ve firearms that have been carried around since the 1970’s and are not beat up. Maybe a Jeep with no top and you leave them out in the rain?? I owned a rag top Jeep for several years and hauled guns that lived in it. Still own them all and there’s not a speck of rust on any of them. Never had an urge to beat on one though.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Gotta love the .45-70 and cast for big animals. I think they have a proven record of Buffalo way past 200.

[quilbilly]

I don’t quite understand the premise of a truck “beater” gun. I’ve firearms that have been carried around since the 1970’s and are not beat up. Maybe a Jeep with no top and you leave them out in the rain?? I owned a rag top Jeep for several years and hauled guns that lived in it. Still own them all and there’s not a speck of rust on any of them. Never had an urge to beat on one though.
I think the definition of a beater gun is a little misplaced as no one on this board would ever mistreat a firearm. I bought a Mossberg 464 as a "back-of-the-truck" gun because it was relative inexpensive and replaceable should something happen to it like an accident or break in. It turned out to be such an fine, fun shooter, I can't replace it. That is the real risk.